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Thread: Alternative forms of schooling

  1. #1

    Default Alternative forms of schooling

    A couple of private school systems, which are much more attuned to actual education rather than indoctrination are the Waldorf system and the Montessori system. Both are very expensive but if you can afford it they are both extremely good education systems.

    http://www.whywaldorfworks.org/

    http://www.montessori.edu/

    If your curious about these systems I encourage you to watch some youtube videos on these education types to see how they work, and see them in action.



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  3. #2

    Default Or

    How about NO "schooling" and just learning? Children are hard-wired to learn. But they learn in their own way at their own rate. Let them. The idea that children need to be force fed some curriculum on a fixed timetable is diametrically opposed to the way learning naturally occurs. Provide a good role model. Provide ample resources. Curb your agenda, get out of the way, and let nature take its course.
    The proper concern of society is the preservation of individual freedom; the proper concern of the individual is the harmony of society.

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  4. #3

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    I guess schooling was a bad word, my bad.

    Yea, these are alternate forms of education that don't age segregate. At least Montessori doesn't, I don't know about Waldorf.
    In these schools, children do learn at their own pace. They are not forced into some class system. It's not anything like the military style indoctrination of public schools, it's an open environment. Seriously, look into it. They are by no means centered around the curriculum style lack of education public schools.

  5. #4

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    For most any and all textbooks on any and all topics you can imagine try thepiratebay.se

    There is no trick to learning, and all the information is free, so any 'schooling' that doesn't maximize the use of this free information is actually indoctrination at our expense.
    Ron Paul: He irritates more idiots in fewer words than any American politician ever.

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  6. #5
    Member Keith and stuff's Avatar
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    There is a Waldorf school where I live. The cost per student is around $10,000 per year. The cost at the government schools is over $17,000 per year. I don't know what the Montessori school here costs as it isn't listed on the website. A private Lutheran school costs $4,000 to $5,000 per student per year. A 7 Day Adventist school just outside of town is $2,000 to $3,000 per student per year. There is a pro-liberty school, Liberty Harbor Academy, in Manchester, but that's 60 miles away so forget that. If I was a parent and I couldn't home school, I'd likely send the kids to the Lutheran school.

    I agree that both Montessori and Waldorf offer better than government education, and at least in New England, at likely a lower cost.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

  7. #6

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    How about Sudbury-type schools? I think if I have a child, I will give him/her schooling options that include unschooling or sudbury school, (which is basically a school for unschoolers where they really heavily on student-run democratic government.)

    The Original Sudbury Valley School in MA:
    http://www.sudval.org/

    Highland School in WV: (I think this school may be older than Sudbury Valley.)
    http://www.thehighlandschool.org/

    New School in DE:
    http://www.thenewschool.com/

    Philly Free School:
    http://www.phillyfreeschool.org/

    Summerhill - not technically a Sudbury School - there are differences; for example, it has a monarchy(the founder's daughter) rather than a pure democracy. Students make a lot of decisions, but classes, while non-compulsory, are scheduled and staff is hired by the monarch rather than by the students. This is also a boarding school.
    http://www.summerhillschool.co.uk/

    Costs vary among the schools - the one in WV is ~$2000 per year and the one in MA is ~$10000 per year.

    On another note:
    I never attended a public school so I don't really understand the indoctrination, but I really have no desire to understand either. If my potential child thought that was what they wanted, then I suppose we'd give it a chance. My parents told me no when I asked to go to public school. While looking back I understand that they probably made the right decision to keep me in my private school, I still wish they would've considered letting me try it. 20+ years later and I still remember being told No; your kids should have input in where they spend 25-30 hours every week for the next ~12 years.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    How about NO "schooling" and just learning? Children are hard-wired to learn. But they learn in their own way at their own rate. Let them. The idea that children need to be force fed some curriculum on a fixed timetable is diametrically opposed to the way learning naturally occurs. Provide a good role model. Provide ample resources. Curb your agenda, get out of the way, and let nature take its course.
    +1

    Absolutely agree
    There is enormous inertia — a tyranny of the status quo — in private and especially governmental arrangements. Only a crisis — actual or perceived — produces real change. When that crisis occurs, the actions that are taken depend on the ideas that are lying around. That, I believe, is our basic function: to develop alternatives to existing policies, to keep them alive and available until the politically impossible becomes politically inevitable
    - Milton Friedman

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    How about NO "schooling" and just learning? Children are hard-wired to learn. But they learn in their own way at their own rate. Let them. The idea that children need to be force fed some curriculum on a fixed timetable is diametrically opposed to the way learning naturally occurs. Provide a good role model. Provide ample resources. Curb your agenda, get out of the way, and let nature take its course.
    Absolutely! +rep!
    "Logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." ~ Rod Serling

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  10. #9

  11. #10

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    Why does school have to be expensive? If you put it online you can dramatically reduce costs and even improve quality if you want.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    How about NO "schooling" and just learning? Children are hard-wired to learn. But they learn in their own way at their own rate. Let them. The idea that children need to be force fed some curriculum on a fixed timetable is diametrically opposed to the way learning naturally occurs. Provide a good role model. Provide ample resources. Curb your agenda, get out of the way, and let nature take its course.
    This, times ten. School is prison. Set your kids free to learn. They will be so much happier, and they'll learn more.

  13. #12

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    As far as online school younger kids react much better to physical objects and an interactive environment.

    As far as no schooling I agree, Montessori (which I did for 4 years) is all about learning at your own pace, with no age segregation. The word schooling in the title was a poor choice of words. Before you knock these options I encourage you to look into them, they really are how learning is suppose to be. It isn't indoctrination, sitting in a desk as some no body talks at you all day. I would know, I was in public school, montessori school and christian school and I saw the difference and it was astounding.

    The Montessori and Waldorf schools really are the opposite of the indoctrination camp public schools. Please just look into them, before knocking them. I promise you will pleasantly surprised.
    Last edited by Joseph; 05-14-2012 at 08:49 AM.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamC View Post
    For most any and all textbooks on any and all topics you can imagine try thepiratebay.se
    Thnx

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  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acala View Post
    How about NO "schooling" and just learning? Children are hard-wired to learn. But they learn in their own way at their own rate. Let them. The idea that children need to be force fed some curriculum on a fixed timetable is diametrically opposed to the way learning naturally occurs. Provide a good role model. Provide ample resources. Curb your agenda, get out of the way, and let nature take its course.
    This for sure.

  16. #15

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    Absolutely no social conditioning of a child during their early years, a brief instruction about how to logically infer something and make proper comparisons to personal experiences, a computer and an internet connection. Your child will learn absolutely everything they need to know and will have all the cross references in the world to determine truth.


    There is a reason the current younger generations have become more keen as to what is really happening than any other generation when they were the same age.
    Last edited by Jonse; 05-14-2012 at 11:23 PM.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
    As far as online school younger kids react much better to physical objects and an interactive environment.

    As far as no schooling I agree, Montessori (which I did for 4 years) is all about learning at your own pace, with no age segregation. The word schooling in the title was a poor choice of words. Before you knock these options I encourage you to look into them, they really are how learning is suppose to be. It isn't indoctrination, sitting in a desk as some no body talks at you all day. I would know, I was in public school, montessori school and christian school and I saw the difference and it was astounding.

    The Montessori and Waldorf schools really are the opposite of the indoctrination camp public schools. Please just look into them, before knocking them. I promise you will pleasantly surprised.
    I've looked into Montessori, though not Waldorf, and I'm reasonably impressed with Montessori. I'd like to see if there could be some sort of online version of it. Oh, and for those who care, Montessori was allegedly a libertarian.
    Well, I got Rand started on his campaign (just search around here to see). I advised Thomas Massie before he ran for Congress. I am currently advising 2 liberty campaigns for the state legislature. I ran the war-room and won Minnesota for Ron Paul a few weeks back. There are other things I'm probably forgetting.
    Yet I can't afford $200 to go to a seminar--Matt Collins

  18. #17

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  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonse View Post
    Absolutely no social conditioning of a child during their early years, a brief instruction about how to logically infer something and make proper comparisons to personal experiences, a computer and an internet connection. Your child will learn absolutely everything they need to know and will have all the cross references in the world to determine truth.


    There is a reason the current younger generations have become more keen as to what is really happening than any other generation when they were the same age.
    Question...what do you define as social conditioning? I disagree to allowing the internet and a computer be my children's guide. I think that is a bad idea. Would be interested to know how that little experiment works out for you though...
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kluge View Post
    I've looked into Montessori, though not Waldorf, and I'm reasonably impressed with Montessori. I'd like to see if there could be some sort of online version of it. Oh, and for those who care, Montessori was allegedly a libertarian.
    Waldorf is artsy and depends on an understanding of anthroposophy to properly execute. Long and short it is a belief in the fact that the soul of all living things experiences evolution in a cyclical fashion and teaches according to the receptive nature of children depending upon their age. I am more Waldorf than Montessori and largely Charlotte Mason in my execution, lol!

    I couldn't function with the manner in which montessori materials are supposed to be handled and presented, but I find a benefit to some of them (It was too dogmatic in my opinion as to the reverence given to manipulatives ie never let them play with them in a manner contrary to that in which it is presented is a prevailing theme I found and just seems to stifle their familiarity and creative side imo)

    Waldorf does a lot of learn this story and then 'tell it' to the students so you maintain eye contact and your soul speaks to the student with no interference.( there is a lot of touchy feelyness to waldorf education ) Not as necessary when you homeschool imo as you are vitally connected in a strong bond unlike student-teacher of non-relatives. However it is more effective than just reading a story as experience has shown me because when you tell the story the words are from your common language usage and you will guide the story using familiar examples to your family. I use a Charlotte Mason approach in finding stories they can relate to but I don't have to memorize a zillion stories a day for my large age range I am teaching. I use Waldorf as a guideline to find the stories that will speak to them according to their natural inclinations. Then depending on their age my children will do art related and/or summary (written and/or oral) of the material covered. The older they get the more our school is Charlotte Mason as opposed to Waldorf.

    It works for us. To each his own....
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle

  21. #20

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    bookmarked this thread. only 21 but very interested in options for educating my future children.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by moostraks View Post
    Question...what do you define as social conditioning? I disagree to allowing the internet and a computer be my children's guide. I think that is a bad idea. Would be interested to know how that little experiment works out for you though...
    Well, it worked out from me. My parents and family members have little to no understanding of politics, economics and the nature of life. People had told me when I was a teenager things like "Bush raised the gas prices", and after I questioned why, they said "because".

    I live in Arizona. There was nobody around to serve as mentor and the school systems here are awful.

    If it weren't for the internet, I would undoubtedly be locked in a very narrow minded, bandwagon view, probably voting for Obama hoping ignorantly that something might change, watching network news and believing them that "Ron Paul is crazy"...because I had the resources available, I was able to learn knowledge, something that, as has been previously pointed out, is much different than being "taught".


    Social conditioning to me can be teaching a child during the developmental years anything that is entirely subjective as though it is fact. This can be anything, but it is general either political or religious, and it general goes along the lines of "this is what is true" as opposed to "here is the information, here's how to read it, you figure out what is true", which I believe is the way a child needs to be educated to build a structured mind that relies on research instead of speculation.
    Last edited by Jonse; 05-15-2012 at 04:09 PM.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonse View Post
    Well, it worked out from me. My parents and family members have little to no understanding of politics, economics and the nature of life. People had told me when I was a teenager things like "Bush raised the gas prices", and after I questioned why, they said "because".

    I live in Arizona. There was nobody around to serve as mentor and the school systems here are awful.

    If it weren't for the internet, I would undoubtedly be locked in a very narrow minded, bandwagon view, probably voting for Obama hoping ignorantly that something might change, watching network news and believing them that "Ron Paul is crazy"...because I had the resources available, I was able to learn knowledge, something that, as has been previously pointed out, is much different than being "taught".


    Social conditioning to me can be teaching a child during the developmental years anything that is entirely subjective as though it is fact. This can be anything, but it is general either political or religious, and it general goes along the lines of "this is what is true" as opposed to "here is the information, here's how to read it, you figure out what is true", which I believe is the way a child needs to be educated to build a structured mind that relies on research instead of speculation.
    Do you have children? It is the responsibility of parents to protect and rear their children. Throwing young children at the vast information on the internet with no b.s meter to filter the information will get you a very confused individual. You contradict your own claims when you formulate guidelines on how to read the information as at that point you will insert your bias as to how to sift through what is necessary and unnecessary. The way one ascertains what is subjective is well....very subjective and based upon one's past experiences in large part. So the children aren't going to be able to decide what is true for themselves until they have the experience from which to pass judgement. That is why parents should help guide their children until they are strong enough to make their own judgements. It is similar to raising flowers. You can't just toss seed into the wind and expect that the flower patch won't be overrun with weeds. You also can't raise them in a sterile environment and expect you can toss the flower out in the world once it has grown and it will survive just fine. There is a happy balance of exposure to the elements once a beings roots are established so you achieve the healthiest outcome.
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle

  24. #23

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    How would you encourage a highschooler, who has been used to public education, to consider un-schooling? This is a very bright kid who under-achieves and slowly loses confidence as the year progresses. Parents will not just pull out of ps because kid wants to be there.
    Last edited by Louise; 09-02-2012 at 11:35 AM.

  25. #24

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    I would seriously advise that you try this one:

    https://www.coursera.org/



    It is free, effective and you choose what to study. It is awesome.
    So you gave up on this:
    H
    elp with documenting voting rights violations and election fraud abuses!?
    Shame. Nothing encourages crime than not punishing it. You are letting them get away with it.FAIL.


    Quote Originally Posted by orenbus View Post
    If I had to answer this question truthfully I'd probably piss a lot of people off lol, Barrex would be a better person to ask he doesn't seem to care lol.


  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barrex View Post
    I would seriously advise that you try this one:

    https://www.coursera.org/



    It is free, effective and you choose what to study. It is awesome.
    Thanks, Barrex, this looks fantastic. Now to work on convincing student that this is the way to go. Or, one of the possibilities.

  27. #26

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    This guy is nailing it right. On now is a discussion with Dr. Robert Rose who suggests changes we could make to the school system.

    There is nothing he has said yet that i do not absolutely agree with. http://www.newsradioklbj.com/Other/Stream.html

    Almost over though.
    Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of thinking. A way of skeptically interrogating the universe. If we are not able to ask skeptical questions...to be skeptical of those in authority...then we're up for grabs.

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    This guy is nailing it right. On now is a discussion with Dr. Robert Rose who suggests changes we could make to the school system.

    There is nothing he has said yet that i do not absolutely agree with. http://www.newsradioklbj.com/Other/Stream.html

    Almost over though.
    I read over much of his material on website. I wrote him and hope to get his insight. Thanks for the info.

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Louise View Post
    I read over much of his material on website. I wrote him and hope to get his insight. Thanks for the info.
    Here is the discussion from last night. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIgpvw8bFfU
    Just listen to the first hour for his discussion on "schooling".

    Irrelevant of the first hour discussion on schooling, the latter couple of hours is discussion with theoretical physicist Amit Goswami, a pioneer of the new paradigm called "science within consciousness." He discussed the nature of consciousness, evolution, and how the notion of God is connected with quantum physics. In a sense, basic reality is comprised of consciousness and all possibilities are contained within that, he said, noting that past, present, and future are included in this, so that we are left with a kind of timelessness, or eternity, as it's referred to in spiritual traditions. We are here because consciousness wants to manifest possibilities, and through the setting up of limitations, we are able to evolve to subtler and subtler forms of manifestations, he continued.

    A source of causal power (called "downward causation" in religion) allows for possibility to become actuality, he explained. Consciousness communicates with matter and doesn't require any signal, as matter is part of consciousness itself, and this quantum non-locality (signal-less communication) "gives us the basic measurable concept that can then verify the existence of God," Goswami stated. Regarding, evolution, "the data suggests very strongly that while there are continuous epochs of evolution, there are also very quick bursts of evolution," which could be seen as quantum leaps, or the creativity of consciousness itself, he noted.

    He also addressed the subject of quantum medicine. Quantum physics legitimizes what are called subtle bodies-- which includes feelings and thoughts and the mental world, he said. This means that in addition to our physical body, we have a vital body that we feel, a mental body that thinks and gives meaning, and an intuitional body. According to Goswami, disease can occur not just to the physical body but to the subtle bodies as well, and treatments such as acupuncture and homeopathy can be particularly effective on the subtle bodies.

    I had mentioned the discussion with Amit in the Bill Nye thread but it's since been abandoned. Is interesting because Amit actually agreed that science is by default false. In effect...
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-03-2012 at 10:38 AM.
    Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of thinking. A way of skeptically interrogating the universe. If we are not able to ask skeptical questions...to be skeptical of those in authority...then we're up for grabs.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Louise View Post
    How would you encourage a highschooler, who has been used to public education, to consider un-schooling? This is a very bright kid who under-achieves and slowly loses confidence as the year progresses. Parents will not just pull out of ps because kid wants to be there.
    Gift the student in question a copy of the Teenage Liberation Handbook by Grace Llewellyn. It is written specifically to be read by teens, not their parental unit(s).

    Good luck!

    XNN
    "They sell us the president the same way they sell us our clothes and our cars. They sell us every thing from youth to religion the same time they sell us our wars. I want to know who the men in the shadows are. I want to hear somebody asking them why. They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are but theyre never the ones to fight or to die." - Jackson Browne Lives In The Balance

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by XNavyNuke View Post
    Gift the student in question a copy of the Teenage Liberation Handbook by Grace Llewellyn. It is written specifically to be read by teens, not their parental unit(s).

    Good luck!

    XNN
    Thanks, XNN. Have ordered a couple of her books from Amazon and can't wait to show student.

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