Eliminating minimum wage would help the very poor!

[Massachusetts]

I think a big misconception is that minimum wage helps the very poor because it forces businesses to pay a minimum wage per hour for employees. I guess the way that some people see it, it is to keep the way employees are treated fair and ensure that the very poor aren't being paid $1.00/hour.

Well I'm here to argue that eliminating the minimum wage altogether would help the very poor. At the very least it would cause the unemployment rate to drop. Companies would be able to hire employees for let's say $5/hour to do a job that brings them in approximately the same amount of money. Instead, with a minimum wage, they are paying employees $7.25/hour for work that is worth $5/hour. This forces businesses to make cuts to their workforce because they can't afford to hire enough people at $7.25/hour when they're only bringing in about $5/hour for every employee they have hired at that wage.

Now, in our country there is a federal minimum wage and states set their own minimum wage as well. I'm not looking at this from a political perspective, moreo from an economic perspective.

From an economic perspective, eliminating the minimum wage allows businesses to hire more employees and overall helps the very poor stay employed. Keeping the minimum wage causes the unemployment rate to rise and is detrimental to the very poor. True or false? Agree or disagree?

[heavenlyboy34]

Most here are aware of this-but if you've persuaded someone new to this, thanks!

[Zippyjuan]

If everybody was willing to take say a 20% pay cut we could reduce the number of unemployed since that would lower the cost of labor. Anybody going to volunteer?

It might create a few new jobs (probably not many). Poor would still be poor.

What are minimum wage workers today (figures for 2010 so pretty recent)?
http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2010.htm

In 2010, 72.9 million American workers age 16 and over were paid at hourly rates, representing 58.8 percent of all wage and salary workers.1 Among those paid by the hour, 1.8 million earned exactly the prevailing Federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 2.5 million had wages below the minimum.2 Together, these 4.4 million workers with wages at or below the Federal minimum made up 6.0 percent of all hourly-paid workers.

So if six percent of hourly wage workers in the US (aged 16 and older) and 58.8% of all workers are hourly, then that would mean that of all workers (hourly and otherwise) 3.5% receive the Federal minimum wage or less. SInce those already being paid less would not see a reduction we would be left with 2.4% of hourly workers or 1.5% of all workers.

Take a dollar or two an hour from a worker and how many jobs could you create? If we assume that they worked 40 hours a week (and many minimum wage earners don't) that would save a company $2000 (a $1 an hour pay reduction) or $4000 a year in wages (not counting taxes including Social Security payments). Would that be enough to encourge a company to hire more people?

[Keith and stuff]

Of course it would. We made some progress in NH when the Democrats were in control and reduced the minimum wage for some jobs. NH managed to tie the state minimum wage to the federal, thus ending the state minimum wage for most workers and let the default be the federal level. That's the most pro-liberty position possible for most workers. Several other states have always been that way. We tried to reduce the minimum wage for card room/casino workers last year but the bill failed.

I really enjoyed the chapter on minimum wage laws in Economics in One Lesson. It was more than enough to sell me on the idea.

So far, these are the best states when it comes to the minimum wage for most workers. WY, MN, AR, LA, MS, TN, AL GA, SC and NH.
Technically, MA and then OK have the lowest on the book minimum minimum wages at $1.60 and $2 according to Wikipedia.

The worst states are in this order:
Santa Fe, NM $10.29
San Fran, CA $10.24
1. WA $9.04 (increases yearly)
2. OR $8.80 (increases yearly)
3. VT $8.46 (increases yearly)
4. CT $8.25 now, $9 in July 2012, $9.75 in 2013
IL/DC/NV $8.25
7. CA/MA $8
8. AK $7.75
9. OH $7.70 (increased yearly)
10. FL $7.67
11. AZ $7.65 (increases yearly)
MT $7.65
13. CO $7.64 (increases yearly)
and so on

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._minimum_wages

[tttppp]

I think a big misconception is that minimum wage helps the very poor because it forces businesses to pay a minimum wage per hour for employees. I guess the way that some people see it, it is to keep the way employees are treated fair and ensure that the very poor aren't being paid $1.00/hour.

Well I'm here to argue that eliminating the minimum wage altogether would help the very poor. At the very least it would cause the unemployment rate to drop. Companies would be able to hire employees for let's say $5/hour to do a job that brings them in approximately the same amount of money. Instead, with a minimum wage, they are paying employees $7.25/hour for work that is worth $5/hour. This forces businesses to make cuts to their workforce because they can't afford to hire enough people at $7.25/hour when they're only bringing in about $5/hour for every employee they have hired at that wage.

Now, in our country there is a federal minimum wage and states set their own minimum wage as well. I'm not looking at this from a political perspective, moreo from an economic perspective.

From an economic perspective, eliminating the minimum wage allows businesses to hire more employees and overall helps the very poor stay employed. Keeping the minimum wage causes the unemployment rate to rise and is detrimental to the very poor. True or false? Agree or disagree?

Also, eliminating the minimum wage reduces people's reliance on government handouts. Instead of picking up unemployment checks, people are working.

Eliminating the minimum wage is a good thing and it does help out the poor. But in order to get people better jobs, the education system has to be improved so that people can quickly and easily get the skills they need to enter a new field.

[seraphson]

If everybody was willing to take say a 20% pay cut we could reduce the number of unemployed since that would lower the cost of labor. Anybody going to volunteer?

It might create a few new jobs (probably not many). Poor would still be poor.

What are minimum wage workers today (figures for 2010 so pretty recent)?
http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2010.htm


So if six percent of hourly wage workers in the US (aged 16 and older) and 58.8% of all workers are hourly, then that would mean that of all workers (hourly and otherwise) 3.5% receive the Federal minimum wage or less. SInce those already being paid less would not see a reduction we would be left with 2.4% of hourly workers or 1.5% of all workers.

Take a dollar or two an hour from a worker and how many jobs could you create? If we assume that they worked 40 hours a week (and many minimum wage earners don't) that would save a company $2000 (a $1 an hour pay reduction) or $4000 a year in wages (not counting taxes including Social Security payments). Would that be enough to encourge a company to hire more people?

What if we inverse your entire example? Add a dollar or two. See the arbitrary properties inherit in minimum wage laws?

For the sake of increasing employment perhaps; maybe these workers only do 15-20 hours a week with differential shifts or other extenuating circumstances. The market should be the ultimate determinant in deciding what jobs are worth by the production of goods and services said jobs provide; not an arbitrary iron fist. Anything is better than the iron fist. *tightens cheeks*

[The Gold Standard]

The point to eliminating the minimum wage isn't to lower people's wages. If they banned the minimum wage tomorrow there aren't going to be mass pay cuts. All it would do is allow people that aren't worth $7.25 an hour to get a job making less than that.

[Keith and stuff]

What if we inverse your entire example? Add a dollar or two. See the arbitrary properties inherit in minimum wage laws?

Of the states with the highest min. wage, only VT is one of the states with the lowest unemployment.

Lowest unemployment rate:
1. ND effective min. wage $7.25 (lowest legally possible)
2. NE effective min. wage $7.25 (lowest legally possible)
3. SD effective min. wage $7.25 (lowest legally possible)
4. VT effective min. wage $8.46
5. NH effective min. wage $7.25 (lowest legally possible)

[Zippyjuan]

Of the states with the highest min. wage, only VT is one of the states with the lowest unemployment.

Lowest unemployment rate:
1. ND effective min. wage $7.25
2. NE effective min. wage $7.25
3. SD effective min. wage $7.25
4. VT effective min. wage $8.46
5. NH effective min. wage $7.25

Interesting figures. Thanks!

[Keith and stuff]

Interesting figures. Thanks!

It doesn't end there. I beleive WY, IA, VA, UT, OK and MN have the next lowest unemployment rates.
6. WY effective min. wage $7.25 (lowest legally possible)
7. IA effective min. wage $7.25 (lowest legally possible)
8. VA effective min. wage $7.25 (lowest legally possible)
9. UT effective min. wage $7.25 (lowest legally possible)
10. OK effective min. wage $7.25 (lowest legally possible)
11. MN effective min. wage $7.25 (lowest legally possible)

[Captain Caveman]

What if we inverse your entire example? Add a dollar or two. See the arbitrary properties inherit in minimum wage laws?

For the sake of increasing employment perhaps; maybe these workers only do 15-20 hours a week with differential shifts or other extenuating circumstances. The market should be the ultimate determinant in deciding what jobs are worth by the production of goods and services said jobs provide; not an arbitrary iron fist. Anything is better than the iron fist. *tightens cheeks*

In my industry, we work 8 hours shifts with weekend overtime. I would gladly accept 3 12-hour shifts a week, so another person can work the same (and relieve me of overtime).

[LibertyRevolution]

The point to eliminating the minimum wage isn't to lower people's wages. If they banned the minimum wage tomorrow there aren't going to be mass pay cuts. All it would do is allow people that aren't worth $7.25 an hour to get a job making less than that.

Ok, your so wrong... do you live in a dream world?

I watched as my ex boss fired and replaced 15 people on my crew with $5/hour illegal immigrant laborers.
He gave everyone a choice, paycut or pink slip...

If they banned minimum wage tomorrow, your boss would walk into the office and tell everyone that they are taking pay cuts or layoffs as the work force is now to be replaced with $5/hr workers...

If we let employers pay $5/hr then every full time employee would be eligible for food stamps and welfare!
That would get us right back on track... :/

Also, what incentive would there to be to get off unemployment if your making $250/week minimum on that, and jobs would be paying $200 a week for 40 hours before taxes, so after taxes you take home only $156 a week...

They entire system of welfare, food stamps, and unemployment would have to be banned long before we can eliminate a minimum wage.

Even if all that was banned, the employers would still fire you to replace you with the cheapest body would do the work at the lowest price.
Lower labor costs mean more profits. Companies exist to make profit. YOU being a good employee is NOT worth the extra money to keep you.

[kezt777]

It really depends on the boss, the job, etc. In my province, minimum wage went up to $9.10 or so within the last year. There were several different reactions to this - first off, my boss had to put up the fees to our customers in order to make up the difference in what she had to pay her staff (she gave us all a raise despite the fact we were all paid a bit more than the new minimum wage, because she didnt want people who had been working for her 12 and 16 years to make 50 cents over minimum wage!), and after she put up the prices to balance things out, I, as the part time worker, had my shift adjusted slightly. My actual shift is only 11am to 3pm because I went to part time after my third child was born. But I have been coming in at 9am most days because that lets everyone else do program planning, go for doc appts, etc etc. But after the minimum wage hike of 60 cents/hour, we started making one or two days a week back to my original shift. As things continue to get more expensive for the center, I will probably be back to 11-3 four days a week.

That is one impact of minimum wage regulations that impacts two sectors - the employee AND the consumer. Almost every fast food place in town put their product prices up within in a month of EACH of the last 3 minimum wage hikes. It's over $8 for a basket of chicken and fries at the Dairy Queen behind my workplace when it used to be less than $6 about 4 years ago. I used to eat that once a month or so as a treat, and now I only buy it maybe every 6 months. That in turn also affects workplaces because they have to pay their staff more, and then raise prices for their customers to make up some of the difference, and then less people may want to eat there (or buy whatever product is on offer) and less money comes in again, and then inevitably minimum wage will be raised by the govt because people cannot afford the products. It's a vicious circle that never ends. I do not know what the answer is.

Here is the example I give to people: In 1999 I worked at the same daycare. I made $6.50 an hour and paid for an apartment nearby for my toddler son and myself. I paid $125 a month for childcare after receiving govt subsidy. And I survived. I was not on welfare, I bought my groceries, paid all my bills on time, etc. I only received a subsidy for daycare fees, which were about $400 total.

Less than a decade later, I was making $9/hour and suddenly could not afford anything. if I were to rent the exact same apartment today, it would take up over 50% of my income right off the bat, let alone rises in other regular fees such as utilities. Before I met my partner 5 years ago, I received a rent subsidy, daycare subsidy (which had actually increased so I only owed $60 a month on daycare fees out of my pocket). I received a huge amount for child tax benefit, got free healthcare premiums, GST credits, etc etc and I was barely making it because of the price of everything going up over and over. I was better off when I made only $6.50/hour than when I made $9/hr. GO FIGURE. I could pay for more things on my own, out of my own pocket, when minimum wage was far lower than it is now. I make $14/hr now and it's even worse. We struggle every month to pay our normal bills. We do not have fancy phones (I pay maybe $10 to $20 a month for a prepaid account). We only have one tv that is less than 10 years old. We have a 22 year old microwave (still works, why not lol). All of our furniture is second hand aside from 2 beds we finally bought the boys this year. I am not telling you this for sympathy lol, I just wanted to stress that I am not saying we cant afford to 'live' but spend money like water. It's far from that. Half of my pay goes on bills such as utilities, and the other half goes to groceries. We eat out (as in order pizza) once a month or every other month, otherwise we cook everything at home. It seems to me that with minimum wage in Alberta increasing 3 times in as many years, things have gotten worse and the poor must surely be poorer because we can barely make it and are above the poverty line for earnings. Daycare fees at my work are now $640/month and people on subsidy pay $94 and half the time don't get that paid on time either. We are one of the cheapest centers. Calgary and Edmonton prices are over $1000 a month per child. Yikes. But they have to pay all their staff more and more so of course the cost is going to rise.

O and I might add another example... for many years, the base earnings level in Alberta for receiving childcare subsidy was $30,000 then it went up to $36,000/yr. As of April 1, 2012, it was hiked up to $50,000 per year. If a family earns up to that amount, they will receive full daycare subsidy every month. My dad made less than that 16 years ago and somehow paid for a mortgage, 2 cars, all of our food and living expenses, etc. Now 16 years later, families making that amount get subsidized because otherwise they cannot afford almost anything. That, in my opinion, is what happens when the govt continually messes with businesses, wages, etc.

[The Gold Standard]

Ok, your so wrong... do you live in a dream world?

I watched as my ex boss fired and replaced 15 people on my crew with $5/hour illegal immigrant laborers.
He gave everyone a choice, paycut or pink slip...

If they banned minimum wage tomorrow, your boss would walk into the office and tell everyone that they are taking pay cuts or layoffs as the work force is now to be replaced with $5/hr workers...

If we let employers pay $5/hr then every full time employee would be eligible for food stamps and welfare!
That would get us right back on track... :/

Also, what incentive would there to be to get off unemployment if your making $250/week minimum on that, and jobs would be paying $200 a week for 40 hours before taxes, so after taxes you take home only $156 a week...

They entire system of welfare, food stamps, and unemployment would have to be banned long before we can eliminate a minimum wage.

Even if all that was banned, the employers would still fire you to replace you with the cheapest body would do the work at the lowest price.
Lower labor costs mean more profits. Companies exist to make profit. YOU being a good employee is NOT worth the extra money to keep you.

Because your boss did that means every boss will? All that means is that those jobs weren't worth $7.25/hr, but since that's what he had to pay by law he just hired fewer workers. If they eliminated the minimum wage tomorrow my boss wouldn't be cutting anyone's pay. He already hires guys right out of prison to pay them as little as possible, but the ones that don't steal get raises so that he can keep them. As disgusting as he is as a human being, he is smart enough to realize that.

You are right that we would have to eliminate endless unemployment benefits and welfare and what have you in order to eliminate the minimum wage. That is a problem with the welfare state, not wages.

And if you don't think the quality of workers is important, only the price, then that tells me two things. Either you own a business in a government regulated and/or subsidized industry where you don't have to worry about competitors, or you don't and will never own a successful business.

[ILUVRP]

does anyone on this board now work and get paid minimun wage ?

why are we trying to turn america into a 3rd world nation ?

[The Gold Standard]

does anyone on this board now work and get paid minimun wage ?

why are we trying to turn america into a 3rd world nation ?

How would eliminating the minimum wage turn America into a 3rd world nation? And if few people answer affirmatively to your first question, doesn't that debunk your second question?

[ILUVRP]

my thinking is that at $5/hr , normal work yr is 2000 hrs , that is $10,000 a yr ,count-- ult- food--gas--auto ins/tags--soc sec--much more to put down but everyone knows what it takes to live and survive.

who would want to work when you can get much more with unemployment/food stamps .

everyone has different ideas and reasons to fix things. the next time someone hires an adult to cut their grass ( lets say takes 1 hour ) , offer him $5 , your grass is going to get very long.

any country that can pay for wars all over the world , build a 1 billion embassy in iraq can do better than drive wages down to china levels.

[seraphson]

Of the states with the highest min. wage, only VT is one of the states with the lowest unemployment.

Lowest unemployment rate:
1. ND effective min. wage $7.25 (lowest legally possible)
2. NE effective min. wage $7.25 (lowest legally possible)
3. SD effective min. wage $7.25 (lowest legally possible)
4. VT effective min. wage $8.46
5. NH effective min. wage $7.25 (lowest legally possible)

Good! It's settled then. Raise minimum wage by $5 across the board (perhaps less in states with lower costs of living) and our minimum wage sector unemployment woes should vanish. There appears to be a correlation in that the higher we increase minimum wage the lower the minimum wage sector unemployment goes.

[LibertyRevolution]

Because your boss did that means every boss will? All that means is that those jobs weren't worth $7.25/hr, but since that's what he had to pay by law he just hired fewer workers. If they eliminated the minimum wage tomorrow my boss wouldn't be cutting anyone's pay. He already hires guys right out of prison to pay them as little as possible, but the ones that don't steal get raises so that he can keep them. As disgusting as he is as a human being, he is smart enough to realize that.

You are right that we would have to eliminate endless unemployment benefits and welfare and what have you in order to eliminate the minimum wage. That is a problem with the welfare state, not wages.

And if you don't think the quality of workers is important, only the price, then that tells me two things. Either you own a business in a government regulated and/or subsidized industry where you don't have to worry about competitors, or you don't and will never own a successful business.

Geez, my ex boss used to get labor from the halfway house too... I guess this is normal now..
And yes the job of the guys on my crew could be done by any moron, paying $8.25/hr is overpaying.
We just literally needed a body to lift and carry things..
So he replaced the halfway house guys with illegal labor, saved himself $3.25/hr and didn't have to pay the illegals overtime or have them on the insurance.

Eventually he had replaced 15 people on my crew that I supervised...and none spoke any english... and I spoke no spanish..
So he had me train some spanish speaking guy he hired, and then gave me a pink slip...
Yes the business was in a market were he had no competition so his service could be a $#@!ty as he wanted...

[csu1987]

People can't live on $7 an hr. alone, raise a family etc and not be on assistance. There must be millions of californians that are in a $#@!ty position like that.

Btw what jobs??? Go to school, pay thousands of dollars and what job do you get again??????? I mean you know after the businesses import east indians n $#@! for the tech and engineer jobs. We must import 2 million h1b visas a year.

You'd be better off going to the local jc, studying on getting your real estate license or appraisers license.

[2young2vote]

It would increase unemployment. As long as people can choose between having a low paying job or living on unemployment, they would choose unemployment. The difference is that the average pay for low income jobs would most likely be much less than what they could receive from unemployment pay if there was no minimum wage. The government would be competing with the private sector and the private sector would always lose because they cannot compete against something that can print its own money.

Of course I think the minimum wage should be zero. I work in the school cafeteria and make minimum wage and I can't help but think this is a job that should be about $1.00 a hour. The difference is people like us would go out and get a job while the freeloaders would sit and do nothing, we are the minority.

[ILUVRP]

with over 16% of our ecomony medical , that is the field to get into.

bottom line if we want to improve america , get people off of unemployment and food stamps , raise min wage to $9-10/hr , in this world you get what you pay for , give someone a good wage and you will get 100% out of him.

i see so many people making min wage , their car breaks down , they take it in to just get it checked to see what is wrong , its $75 just to look at it , to work on the car its anywhere between $60-125 per hour.

crazy world.

[Massachusetts]

with over 16% of our ecomony medical , that is the field to get into.

bottom line if we want to improve america , get people off of unemployment and food stamps , raise min wage to $9-10/hr , in this world you get what you pay for , give someone a good wage and you will get 100% out of him.

i see so many people making min wage , their car breaks down , they take it in to just get it checked to see what is wrong , its $75 just to look at it , to work on the car its anywhere between $60-125 per hour.

crazy world.

http://www.fee.org/library/books/eco...in-one-lesson/

Read chapter 18 and then come back.

[The Free Hornet]

If everybody was willing to take say a 20% pay cut we could reduce the number of unemployed since that would lower the cost of labor. Anybody going to volunteer?

How so? A job is not a paycheck. A job is productive activity that results in payment. Payment without the productivity is not a job.

Had you proposed, "if everybody was willing to work 20% less...", then it may be possible that a demand for productive labor increases.

If you want to reduce the number of unemployed, END THE WAR ON WORKING:

1) End the war on drugs, allow all to enter the workforce as farmers, transporters, refiners, distributors, sellers, etc. They will pay taxes and market forces would favor those who follow the law.

2) End the war on prostition, gambling - same reasons as above.

3) End the war on professionalism - end state licensing. You may know one thousand times more about the law than I, but without the proper credentials, I cannot legally employ your services. And you don't even have to cut people up like a doctor.

4) Like the OP says, END THE MINIMUM WAGE. If you are earning the minimum wage, there exists a mandate that everybody else's time is worth equal to or more than your time. If you work an hour and want to employ someone less skilled for one hour, you have a wash at best. No net benefit. Worse yet, taxes, insurance, liability, all insure that you cannot deploy your money to economically to hire people because your inflow is at the minimum wage level. How can this possibly be good for you?

The minimum wage hurts the poorest the hardest.

[InTradePro]

[The Free Hornet]

Of course I think the minimum wage should be zero.

Zero is least amount we can pay somebody and the minimum wage laws ensure that more people get exactly that - zero.

If the economic illiterates are so $#@!ing worried about the poor, why not stick with "negative income tax" BS like food stamps, welfare, state-mandated unemployment insurance???

Why mandate how people engage with each other productively? Just be the welfare statists that you are and leave the rest of us the $#@! alone?

The question is rhetorical as I will now answer it. The minimum wage laws are not unlike the racist origins of unions in this nation. It has always been about benefiting one group (politically connected, often working class at tradesman or guild levels) at the expense of another (generally the working poor, not politically connected).

If you think the rich or 1%ers give a $#@! about the price of burgers at Wendy's going up, you're wrong. It will have no affect (the Wendy's might go out of business, but who in the 1% cares???). Raise the minimum wage and you only create barriers to entry for any potential competitors to the 1%ers. Trust me.

[nobody's_hero]

Eliminating the minimum wage would not be very helpful in reducing poverty unless you could find a way to stop inflation dead in its tracks.

Think about it:

The reason we have a minimum wage is because of inflation. The Fed and Congress realized that if we did not have a minimum wage, people would quickly realize that their quality of life is decreasing as the purchasing power of their dollar decreases. It's no coincidence that before the Federal Reserve act, there was no federal minimum wage (around that time, some states had enacted minimum wages for women to try to bring about equality, but it wasn't a consquence of a central bank mismanaging the money supply).

So if you cut out the minimum wage now, you'd have more people getting paid less by their employers, as all the while everyone (the workers and the employers, and even the remaining unemployed) struggles to stay afloat in a sea of inflation. It would hardly put a dent in the problem.

I say cut the head off the snake first before you try to cut off the rattle. End the Fed and then we won't need a minimum wage.

[JasonC]

It's price fixing.. Price fixing causes shortages..

Anywho,... the largest misconception in the world is that if the government doesn't do something, whatever that thing is will not be done at all.

[The Free Hornet]

Eliminating the minimum wage would not be very helpful in reducing poverty unless you could find a way to stop inflation dead in its tracks.

Poverty is always relative and will always exist. It can't be eliminated because it is a moving target.

The reason we have a minimum wage is because of inflation.

That is not a bad theory and tie-in with the Fed. Here is what I found from a link off of Wikipedia (it says you are wrong):

Williams makes the case that that's exactly what happened to black Americans in the years after World War II, when we first had an effective minimum wage. The employment rate of black Americans fell, and their economic well-being has never recovered since. The motives behind the minimum wage legislation were mixed. Some Congressmen voted for it for explicitly racist motives. Others were thinking of protecting their constituents from competition. Some believed the government could give everybody a free lunch. But the results were devastating, whatever the causes.

http://www.conservativebookclub.com/...rightly-so.asp

So if you cut out the minimum wage now, you'd have more people getting paid less by their employers, as all the while everyone (the workers and the employers, and even the remaining unemployed) struggles to stay afloat in a sea of inflation.

If we decriminalized working - what I propose - we would have fewer people unemployed and our money would go further. Having to fight the Fed first, while admirable, is unnecessary (to improve this particular aspect). Fight the Fed (!) but don't cockblock the people fighting other abuses of government.

It would hardly put a dent in the problem.

That same thing is repeated thousands of times about million-dollar and billion-dollar government expenditures and the result is trillions of debt.

I say cut the head off the snake first before you try to cut off the rattle. End the Fed and then we won't need a minimum wage.

We don't need a minimum wage period and the Fed does nothing to improve the situation. They both suck. Even when we still had some degree of a gold standard, the minimum wage was devastating. I can't say which is worse (I include the drug war as a 'minimum wage' like issue) but the sooner one or the other or preferably both is gone, the better.

Why do so many people defend statism by putting up barriers to freedom? Why consent to the thought that we "need" a minimum wage? We don't and never did! I hear this all the time, "we used to need these child labor laws but today they are antiquated". Wrong! They were bad when enacted and they are still bad today.

[Keith and stuff]

I cannot beleive how many people on here want extreme economic regulations. This is incredible. As I posted, only 1 of the 11 states with the lowest unemployment rates has an effective minimum wage above the federal level, the lowest legal level. That's true, even though around 17 states have minimum wages above the lowest legal level.

I'm pretty sure that any halfway reasonable person could figure out that minimum wage laws are bad if they read the related chapter in Economics in One Lesson.

It is incredible reading the reactions here when even the former Democratic majority in NH passed a law reducing the minimum wage for some types of work.