[Video] Is Oil Price Speculation a Bad thing?

[The Free Hornet]

if they want to play the crude oil game then they will have to pay more , it would not effect the true hedgers like South West Airlines.

So you are advocating a government solution...

How is Southwest a "true hedger"? I buy ~$2000 in gas annually, can I play without risking your margin wrath, accusations of greed, or the risk of taking physical delivery? I doubt I'm zoned to store crude oil.

Here is more to read in defense of speculation:

http://articles.marketwatch.com/2008...mmodity-prices
http://www.thefreemanonline.org/colu...er-scapegoats/

Your school of thought is old - possibly ancient. Are you of the opinion that all this time we ought to be paying 40% less? This school of thought also claims that oil use is inelastic so that a 40% price decrease would not be paired with an increase in consumption. That people won't change their behavior at $2.40/gallon vs $4/gallon....

[ILUVRP]

lets get crude oil up to $200/ba and gasoline to $8/ga , then we would use less.

read up on how much crude oil we have in storage in Oklahoma , also read how the US uses 400 million gal of gas a day , at the same time we export about 120 million gallons of gasoline a day .

there is no shortage of crudes / cracks

[The Free Hornet]

lets get crude oil up to $200/ba and gasoline to $8/ga , then we would use less.

read up on how much crude oil we have in storage in Oklahoma , also read how the US uses 400 million gal of gas a day , at the same time we export about 120 million gallons of gasoline a day .

there is no shortage of crudes / cracks

Why would I read about reserves (government or private)? The more reserves we have, the bigger a buffer we have to any shocks. If anything, reserves would likely lower the price (read about hoarders in an emergency, for example). Regarding our export of gasoline. We important oil and we export gas because gas is a refined product made in the USA and oil is a raw material import. We don't export gas due to an abundance of oil but due to an abundance of highly efficient refining capacity. We have Standard Oil to thank for that and competitors quickly realized that high efficiency - not government intervention - is the best way to compete. That legacy serves us to this day.


Edit: ILUVRP, I read about Cushing. What was your point? So they have "5-10%" of our oil reserves. That's what they do. Should I complain about the price of eggs because some trading post has lots of eggs?

As the oil fields started to run dry, starting in the 1940s, production and refining became less important. However, the maze of pipelines and tanks that had been built led to the NYMEX choosing Cushing as the official delivery point for its light sweet crude futures contract in 1983.

Facts and knowledge are distinct entities.

[ILUVRP]

"we export gas because gas is a refined product"

thats great info , why don't we just export 400 million gal a day , that would drive gas to $25/gal , we would drive less , now i am starting to understand how the system works.

as far as chushing goes , they have all the crude oil they can hold . i am trying to say there is no shortage of crude oil in america , or gasoline.

[The Free Hornet]

"we export gas because gas is a refined product"

thats great info , why don't we just export 400 million gal a day , that would drive gas to $25/gal , we would drive less , now i am starting to understand how the system works.

as far as chushing goes , they have all the crude oil they can hold . i am trying to say there is no shortage of crude oil in america , or gasoline.

You may have to close your eyes for this one Brian.

First, America is a net importer of crude:



There may not be a shortage due to untapped fields, but the strategic reserves are only sufficient to cover a few months of imports although it would take a half year to empty them:

The United States maintains a Strategic Petroleum Reserve at four sites in the Gulf of Mexico, with a total capacity of 727 million barrels (115.6×106 m3) of crude oil. The maximum total withdrawal capability from the United States Strategic Petroleum Reserve is 4.4 million barrels (700,000 m3) per day. This is roughly 32% of US oil imports, or 75% of imports from OPEC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_res..._United_States

Thinking the US has enough oil is like thinking you have enough gas for a cross-country trip because your Ford Taurus has a full tank. I.e., idiotic.

Regarding refining, courtesy of Uncle Sam, here is the breakdown in the cost of gasoline:



We export gas because we have an excess of refining capacity. If we didn't export gas, we would either make less or look for ways to use, sell, or store the excess. Or we start shutting down refinery lines for no good reason. What affect would this have on the market? The price of gas would go up overseas. People not currently in the gas exportation business would sniff a huge opportunity!!!

You are correct that we don't have shortages, but how is that relevant? We have as much gas and oil as people are willing to buy at the present prices.

What are you trying to say? You went from bitch-and-moan mode about speculators to talking about oil reserves and refining capacity. These are not pertinent to your global quest to regulate* oil speculating. These are people doing exactly what you falsely and maliciously pretended to want: taking physical delivery of the fucking oil.

Make a point or troll somewhere else.




* I say regulate because you can't end speculation. You can control to a degree who legally profits but speculation is a fact of life. Deal with it.


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[ILUVRP]

we give big oil companies over $4 billion every year , they export about 120 millions of gasoline to keep prices high ( and also make more money ) , i guess the next time they need our military to help them out and protect their overseas interests they should get help from the countries they are selling gasoline to.

does anyone think that if Ron Paul were POTUS he would allow giving big oil co's $4b a year and keep bases all over the world in part to protect oil co's interests?

there is one answer , the answer is NO.

[heavenlyboy34]

we give big oil companies over $4 billion every year , they export about 120 millions of gasoline to keep prices high ( and also make more money ) , i guess the next time they need our military to help them out and protect their overseas interests they should get help from the countries they are selling gasoline to.

does anyone think that if Ron Paul were POTUS he would allow giving big oil co's $4b a year and keep bases all over the world in part to protect oil co's interests?

there is one answer , the answer is NO.

srsly? Big Oil's CEO compensation is none of your damn business. If the dollar were sound, you could get gas for ~a dime/gallon (check the dollar/pm ratio to verify for yourself).

[The Free Hornet]

we give big oil companies over $4 billion every year , they export about 120 millions of gasoline to keep prices high ( and also make more money ) , i guess the next time they need our military to help them out and protect their overseas interests they should get help from the countries they are selling gasoline to.

does anyone think that if Ron Paul were POTUS he would allow giving big oil co's $4b a year and keep bases all over the world in part to protect oil co's interests?

there is one answer , the answer is NO.

I thought before maybe you were full of facts and just lacked wisdom. Now I don't know what you're full of. The actual gasoline exports are much much, much higher and dwarf $4 billion dollars:

In 2011, U.S. refiners exported 117 million gallons per day of gasoline, diesel, jet fuel and other petroleum products, up from 40 million gallons per day a decade earlier.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/indust...ort/52298812/1

To answer your questions, gas is expensive because oil is expensive. Why you bitch about exports is beyond me but it is PROOF you don't care about stopping your statist interventionalism with oil speculators (who could easily be replaced by gas or diesel speculators - what's your thought on that if you have one?). Speculators are just a scapegoat for a power grab.

Your so-called $4 billion in subsidies must be contrasted with an $88 billion dollar export industry. In 2006, the Federal gas tax alone raised $25 billion (link). Local taxes double that number. ~$50 billion in fuel taxes to an unsourced $4 billion in subsidies. Who is getting subsidized here?

Regarding overseas exploits, although I don't doubt some malfeasance in the oil industry (*cough* Haliburton *cough*), there is no need to "control" the oil. As regards the oil industry, other countries have two things: dirt and oil. They can't eat dirt so they have to sell the oil. They can't refine as efficiently as us (!) so we get a piece of that action too. The US as a whole did not profit from the wars. For proof, our prices have doubled, our debt has quadrupled or more, and we don't have a lot more cash to show for it. The war is so irrational, it is very hard for me to think there are many winners. It is raw, unadultered irrationality. The people making massive profits are just a pen stroke away from going out of a very nasty business. It is not unlike socialism, a massive exercise in the misallocation of resources.

Again, I don't think our overseas bases or exploits benefit the oil industry specifically but I am happy to see evidence to the contrary. Obviously, the wars should end and the superfluous bases closed ASAP. Regardless, this has ZERO to do with your gripe of oil speculation which was shot down in flames. Big government needs oil more than oil needs big government. They'd be happy with government at its 1889 size.

1) Do you still support specific limits on oil speculation?
2) Do you think Ron Paul does as well? [duh, no]

We know Ron Paul would not support your statist plans to end oil speculation. You put forth a proposition that disagrees with his limited-government platform. So why the fuck do you ask, "does anyone think that if Ron Paul were POTUS he would allow giving big oil co's $4b a year and keep bases all over the world in part to protect oil co's interests?". You accept him as an authority for argumentation only when convenient? Do you not realize he would say - more or less - "Well as President I can bring the troops home - the commander in chief has that authority. The tax policies and subsidies have to be changed in Congress but I would definitely support ending BOTH the subsidies AND the taxes!".

[heavenlyboy34]

I thought before maybe you were full of facts and just lacked wisdom. Now I don't know what you're full of. The actual gasoline exports are much much, much higher and dwarf $4 billion dollars:



To answer your questions, gas is expensive because oil is expensive. Why you bitch about exports is beyond me but it is PROOF you don't care about stopping your statist interventionalism with oil speculators (who could easily be replaced by gas or diesel speculators - what's your thought on that if you have one?). Speculators are just a scapegoat for a power grab.

Your so-called $4 billion in subsidies must be contrasted with an $88 billion dollar export industry. In 2006, the Federal gas tax alone raised $25 billion (link). Local taxes double that number. ~$50 billion in fuel taxes to an unsourced $4 billion in subsidies. Who is getting subsidized here?

Regarding overseas exploits, although I don't doubt some malfeasance in the oil industry (*cough* Haliburton *cough*), there is no need to "control" the oil. As regards the oil industry, other countries have two things: dirt and oil. They can't eat dirt so they have to sell the oil. They can't refine as efficiently as us (!) so we get a piece of that action too. The US as a whole did not profit from the wars. For proof, our prices have doubled, our debt has quadrupled or more, and we don't have a lot more cash to show for it. The war is so irrational, it is very hard for me to think there are many winners. It is raw, unadultered irrationality. The people making massive profits are just a pen stroke away from going out of a very nasty business. It is not unlike socialism, a massive exercise in the misallocation of resources.

Again, I don't think our overseas bases or exploits benefit the oil industry specifically but I am happy to see evidence to the contrary. Obviously, the wars should end and the superfluous bases closed ASAP. Regardless, this has ZERO to do with your gripe of oil speculation which was shot down in flames. Big government needs oil more than oil needs big government. They'd be happy with government at its 1889 size.

1) Do you still support specific limits on oil speculation?
2) Do you think Ron Paul does as well? [duh, no]

We know Ron Paul would not support your statist plans to end oil speculation. You put forth a proposition that disagrees with his limited-government platform. So why the fuck do you ask, "does anyone think that if Ron Paul were POTUS he would allow giving big oil co's $4b a year and keep bases all over the world in part to protect oil co's interests?". You accept him as an authority for argumentation only when convenient? Do you not realize he would say - more or less - "Well as President I can bring the troops home - the commander in chief has that authority. The tax policies and subsidies have to be changed in Congress but I would definitely support ending BOTH the subsidies AND the taxes!".

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to The Free Hornet again." Will hit ya with some +rep ASAP.

[ILUVRP]

HB "srsly? Big Oil's CEO compensation is none of your damn business. "

show me where i have EVER said anything about CEO compensation . i said co's ( companies ).

i agree it is no one's business except share holders / board of directors what any ceo makes.



TFH , what is it i am missing here , i did say above that we export about 120 million a day , the $4 billion that the american tax payer give to oil companies is in the form of sub's.

good grief .

as far as a sound $$ goes , as far back as i can remember the only sound currency in the world is the swiss franc.

the dollar has been a POS since 1913 , it always will be .