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"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
James Madison
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams
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Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito
50% of U.S. food production already comes from the 2% of farms. The medium sized farmers who are trying to compete with the factory farmers were out of business decades ago. The primary culprit was not requirements to produce food ethically, but favoritism and agribusiness subsidies which made it impossible to compete. What you don't seem to understand is how the market for foods have changed, and how small farmers are more able to adapt to those demands. Many small family farmers have gone into organics or direct-market models, which is far more profitable and what a lot of people want anyway. CSAs and farmers markets are bigger than ever.
Besides, some things are just plain wrong. Creating biohazards while taking taxpayer money is wrong. Your argument reminds me of the garment industry a few years back justifying their child labor because they couldn't make a profit without it.
They didn't decide anything in the pink slime fiasco. That was nothing but a baseless liberal slam job by the media who know how exactly to manipulate people with emotion over fact.
And yes, most people don't want to see their beef slaughtered. They'd rather not clean out their own septic tanks, too. They pay other people to handle the nastier bits of life for them. That's how capitalism is supposed to work.
You are right, there is no solution to any of this so long as 1. Monsanto and other corporate interests are allowed to manipulate government regulators and laws to their own whims and 2. the travesty that is government farm subsidies (mostly received by large factory farms) exists
However, I still maintain that regulating antibiotic use (and GMOs for that matter) is an appropriate use of government authority because of the greater danger to public health and the environment. In my belief, it is 100% necessary to protecting my rights to life and property.
The fact that our government cannot do any of its appropriate roles correctly, due to extreme corruption, is another issue.
Buy natural beef (and other farm products). Patronize farmers who do it right. Vote with your dollars. Support third party verification organizations that certify farms as natural or organic (no "government certification" necessary, the market can do it better).
If there is enough demand, the market will make it work. It is only through uniformed consumers who don't care about how their food was produced as long as it is cheap that the producers have been able to get away with these unwise practices.
Find a local farmer who does it right and buy from them. And don't say you can't afford it. If you drink coffee or soda everyday, have cable and high speed internet, a data plan on your phone, and a pantry full of processed high fructose corn sugar junk then you can afford it, you just need to prioritize what's important to you, wholesome food or all those other luxuries.
Transparency in farming is the answer, and finding a local farmer who grows food the right way is the best way to do it. It is harder for your farmer to get away with doing things the wrong way when he has his customers coming to his farm to buy his products.
Support CSA in your community.
Spend time growing your own food.
All of these actions will help to move our food system to a more natural and wholesome production system without needing government intervention or programs or mandates or certifications.
That's rather short-sighted.
What if you or one of your kids got an infection that the hospital couldn't treat properly because of the anti-biotics in the cheap meat you buy and it ended up costing hundreds of thousands in medical bills, or worse, if it caused death?
I mean, I think you should be free to put whatever you want in your body and damage you and your kids however you want, but does that mean it is the best decision?
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
So giving government more power to regulate and subsidize, you admit, leads to greater use of anti-biotics and other damaging substances in meat..
So why do you want to give government more power to regulate when you know it is going to lead to greater use of the substances you are trying to minimize?
Ron Paul uses the argument with illegals - If we stopped subsidizing them and instead just let them come here to work, then there wouldn't be an immigrant problem because the only ones who would come would be ones who are willing to work and support themselves or their family. They would provide cheaper labor and thus cheaper and more plentiful goods. But there would still be immigrants.
If we stopped subsidizing and regulating the farming industry there would still be anti-biotics, but they wouldn't be abused nearly as much and the problems that come with abusing the anti-biotics wouldn't exist for the most part.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
I don't think that any laws pass anymore that aren't written and approved by lobbyists first. So for those who support this, you might want to consider that and think about how this raises the cost for smaller farmers. It also opens the door for more federal meddling where it doesn't belong.
Yet I can't afford $200 to go to a seminar--Matt CollinsWell, I got Rand started on his campaign (just search around here to see). I advised Thomas Massie before he ran for Congress. I am currently advising 2 liberty campaigns for the state legislature. I ran the war-room and won Minnesota for Ron Paul a few weeks back. There are other things I'm probably forgetting.
Antibiotic resistant bacteria would likely be less of a problem if the government would lower the barriers into research for alternative treatments such as phage therapy, and stop directing research through their grants. Anyway, will this be the death blow for the dollar menu?
For those claiming "mind your own business", I think that sometimes public health concerns do require intervention. If the retard next door to me has built an explosive meth lab, I'm going to want to shut it down by force before he kills us all.
Last edited by brandon; 04-12-2012 at 03:49 PM.
People may be living longer now, but medical costs have gone way up. This is because people are eating unhealthier food and the medical industry only covers up the problems, it doesn't cure anything. The facts support my case, not yours.
Eating meat with antibiotics is roughly the same as getting a shot of antibiotics. If you required a shot of antibiotics to eat meat, I'm sure you would prefer to eat something else.
Also, what is wrong with my idea of eliminating all regulations and putting in a system that will motivate farmers to produce real food without any regulations?
I'm not commenting on any other part of this discussion. This however is the absolute truth. The SAD (standard American diet) diet is creating a lot of health problems with a lot of people very early on. And then it is being masked by pharmas.
Even Dr. Paul comes out and says this.
..Oo.o~ Rights are Divine ~o.oO..
Most farmers care about making enough money to support their families. Hardly anyone gets rich from farming, except for a few big corporate farmers. A law like this will only hurt the small farmers, not the big corporate farmers. Even going beyond this particular law, where is the Constitutional authority for the FDA to even exist? I didn't see that when I read through article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution. Where is the Constitutional authority for the EPA? The EPA has no authority to regulate herbicides and pesticides, because the EPA has no authority to even exist. Also, how exactly do you expect farmers to farm without using herbicides and pesticides?
Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11
We wouldn't be faced with this problem if we just raised the NATIVE ruminant of North America for meat production - BISON!!
1. They do not get sick nearly as much as cattle do since they are adapted to this environment
2. They utilize the available grass in a pasture more efficiently and effectively (they eat a wider range of grasses and also do not hang around water sources like cattle do)
3. They do not need to be fed in the winter, unless the conditions become very extreme
4. They have significantly fewer problems giving birth
And plus, they are healthier for you! And taste better in my opinion, nothing beats a good ol' Bison Burger here in South Dakota.
Those who expect to reap the blessings of liberty must undergo the fatigues of supporting it ~Thomas Paine
Americans used to roar like lions for liberty; now we bleat like sheep for security ~Norman Vincent Peale
If the government is involved, it cannot be for the good. Everything they do has a motive behind it.
"Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"
We should be worried about the growth hormones they give these animals because the meat can cause us to get cancer. Even milk that has hormones in it can cause cancer. I have seen articles on it not long ago. I am sure you guys probably read about it too. Scary stuff.
http://www.preventcancer.com/consumers/general/milk.htm
http://cincovidas.com/growth-hormone...hoose-organic/
Last edited by rockerrockstar; 04-13-2012 at 12:05 AM.
The epitome of libertarian populismOriginally Posted by Ron Paul
Except for when it regulates abortion, marriage, a massive military costing hundreds of billions a year, police, a secret prison system where alleged terrorists are tortured and often killed, and the Intelligence State, a court system, intellectual property...
Last edited by Feeding the Abscess; 04-13-2012 at 03:00 AM.
The epitome of libertarian populismOriginally Posted by Ron Paul
Even Ron Paul supports regulating some of those things, such as abortion and marriage. He believes that we should have a strong military, local police, intelligence agencies, a court system, and intellectual property. He doesn't support secret prisons, and neither do I. But, even though I'm not an anarchist, I'm still more libertarian than most of the people posting in this thread and the minimum wage thread. How exactly can these people arguing in favor of FDA regulations and increasing the minimum wage call themselves "libertarians" in any way?
The epitome of libertarian populismOriginally Posted by Ron Paul
Gitmo isn't a secret prison. I thought you were talking about the secret prisons we have in Europe. But, my position isn't that Gitmo should stay open forever. My position is that all of the prisoners at Gitmo should be tried in military tribunals as soon as possible. Those who are found innocent should be released to their country of origin, and those who are found guilty should be executed. Once all of the prisoners have been tried, I would support closing down Gitmo.
Keep the government off our farms.
Buy locally grown meat, and for you city dwellers........know your butcher!
Wanting to buy "suits your notion of pure" beef from Wal-Mart for $1.99lb just isn't going to happen.
There's an old saying in the trades that applies to food too; Good/Fast/Cheap.....pick two.
+Rep I agree 100% with this post. Even though I only eat meat a few times a year, bison is always a favorite of mine to be on the menu.
If I ever started eating more meat, it would be primarily bison and venison.. also fish.. not a big fan of foul tho chickens are easy to raise and I like eggs.
Last edited by dannno; 04-13-2012 at 04:18 PM.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
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