Solutions for Those with Pre existing Conditions

[It Takes an Individual]

Hey everyone, I just joined these forums so I apologize since there may already be a thread like this, but I am having trouble taking a free market stance on this issue. Like many other Americans who have this problem, my father often makes a point in support of Obamacare using the fact that he has lived his life with juvenile (type 1) diabetes and has been mostly unable to get health insurance. While I understand that no government philosophy leads to a utopia, and certainly not one with the measures made in Obamacare, I am having trouble figuring what government nonintervention could do to fix this issue. Obviously the main culprit here is the insurance companies, but at this point unfortunately everyone is dependent on them despite their practices. I have learned of the many free market solutions in terms of lowering health care costs and raising the quality of health care, but there are many other issues that must be dealt with. I am sick of hearing conservative politicians defending insurance companies with the argument that "well, no car insurance company should be forced to cover automobiles that are already broken down". I do believe in property/contract rights, but so many Americans are denied health insurance without Obamacare.
With all this said, I do however understand the consequences of Obamacare (lower quality care, higher costs, rationing, etc.), but is there any other solution? Maybe through tax incentives for health insurance companies?

Well, any answers to my question would truly be helpful, I am really glad I joined these forums. Ron Paul 2012!

[wrestlingwes_8]

Hey everyone, I just joined these forums so I apologize since there may already be a thread like this, but I am having trouble taking a free market stance on this issue. Like many other Americans who have this problem, my father often makes a point in support of Obamacare using the fact that he has lived his life with juvenile (type 1) diabetes and has been mostly unable to get health insurance. While I understand that no government philosophy leads to a utopia, and certainly not one with the measures made in Obamacare, I am having trouble figuring what government nonintervention could do to fix this issue. Obviously the main culprit here is the insurance companies, but at this point unfortunately everyone is dependent on them despite their practices. I have learned of the many free market solutions in terms of lowering health care costs and raising the quality of health care, but there are many other issues that must be dealt with. I am sick of hearing conservative politicians defending insurance companies with the argument that "well, no car insurance company should be forced to cover automobiles that are already broken down". I do believe in property/contract rights, but so many Americans are denied health insurance without Obamacare.
With all this said, I do however understand the consequences of Obamacare (lower quality care, higher costs, rationing, etc.), but is there any other solution? Maybe through tax incentives for health insurance companies?

Well, any answers to my question would truly be helpful, I am really glad I joined these forums. Ron Paul 2012!

The main problem is the cost of healthcare, that is what makes healthcare inaccessible to so many people. Modern medicine has all their fancy gadgets, tests, and prescription medications, which cost a ton of money, but have failed to cure any chronic condition in the last 100 years. Modern medicine is a joke and is one of today's "flat earths". I highly recommend you look into natural, holistic, or homeopathic remedies. Thousands of people have cured themselves of all types of diabetes simply by changing their eating habits. By switching to a diet consisting mostly of vegetables and fruits and reducing the meat and dairy intakes, your father could cure his condition.

As for the country as a whole, it's a no-brainer; we simply have to change the way we eat! Less processed foods, meats, dairies, sugar, caffeine, and oils would drastically reduce healthcare costs in this country. So many people whine and complain about healthcare in this country as they drink a Coke and shove more french fries down their throat. It's ridiculous that our culture has reached a point where they view vegetables as "disgusting" or "rabbit food" and think that vegetarians are just a bunch of ***** or girls. We have traded this destructive, fast-paced lifestyle for our overall health and well-being. My suggestion, slow your life down, plant a garden, and just relax; eliminating stress is very important.

I highly recommend you watch a documentary called "Forks Over Knives"; it's on Netflix but you might be able to find a free version online somewhere. If not "A Beautiful Truth" is another good one that I know is free on the internet.

[phill4paul]

Individual states could pass laws requiring that insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions. States currently require mandates. From Idaho with 14 mandates to Minnesota with 63. Of course with these mandates comes a higher price.
Individual states also offer low cost or free insurance to low income individuals as well as those that are unemployable.
It all goes back to allowing the states to set there own guidelines instead of a federal one plan fits all approach.

[wrestlingwes_8]

Individual states could pass laws requiring that insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions. States currently require mandates. From Idaho with 14 mandates to Minnesota with 63. Of course with these mandates comes a higher price.
Individual states also offer low cost or free insurance to low income individuals as well as those that are unemployable.
It all goes back to allowing the states to set there own guidelines instead of a federal one plan fits all approach.

More laws, at the local, state or federal levels, are not the answer. Laws never have been the answer. The answer is freedom but with freedom also comes PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. You are responsible for making sure you are healthy. Want to stay healthy and live longer with fewer problems? Exercise, plant a garden, and reduce your stress; those are the keys to good health.

[phill4paul]

More laws, at the local, state or federal levels, are not the answer. Laws never have been the answer. The answer is freedom but with freedom also comes PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. You are responsible for making sure you are healthy. Want to stay healthy and live longer with fewer problems? Exercise, plant a garden, and reduce your stress; those are the keys to good health.

States may enact whichever laws the citizens allow based on their constitution. The federal government has no such power granted to it and these issues are reserved to the states. There are many medical conditions in which a healthy diet and stressless lifestyle is not enough to correct the condition.

[wrestlingwes_8]

States may enact whichever laws the citizens allow based on their constitution. The federal government has no such power granted to it and these issues are reserved to the states. There are many medical conditions in which a healthy diet and stressless lifestyle is not enough to correct the condition.

Just because they have the Constitutional power to do so, does NOT mean that is the answer. Also, your assertion that there are many conditions that can't be treated with diet is false. There are actually very very few conditions that can't be treated with a strict regiment of organic vegetables and fruits.

[leonster]

Just because they have the Constitutional power to do so, does NOT mean that is the answer. Also, your assertion that there are many conditions that can't be treated with diet is false. There are actually very very few conditions that can't be treated with a strict regiment of organic vegetables and fruits.

Spinal paralysis? ....just saying.

[No Free Beer]

More laws, at the local, state or federal levels, are not the answer. Laws never have been the answer. The answer is freedom but with freedom also comes PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. You are responsible for making sure you are healthy. Want to stay healthy and live longer with fewer problems? Exercise, plant a garden, and reduce your stress; those are the keys to good health.

I am not defending obamacare or the OP's vision, but I will say, as I'm sure you are aware, diabetes can also be a caused by heredity. So. it's not just as easy as eating healthy. You can def. do a lot with the right eating habits, but it doesn't completely erase the fact that a person has diabetes. They do need medication to control it.

[Isaac Bickerstaff]

The answer is in the title of the thread,"Solutions for Those with Pre existing Conditions". Homeopathy. Cheap, effective and could most likely manage or even cure the diabetes. Tell the medical industry and all their finger puppets in government that we don't need them.

[wrestlingwes_8]

The answer is in the title of the thread,"Solutions for Those with Pre existing Conditions". Homeopathy. Cheap, effective and could most likely manage or even cure the diabetes. Tell the medical industry and all their finger puppets in government that we don't need them.

Exactly +rep

[MelissaWV]

The OP is discussing Type One, which he said pretty clearly. Saying "you can cure this with lifestyle choice" is just demonstrating your own ignorance on the subject.

* * *

Insurance is, by definition, something you are taking out for the "just in case" scenario. If everyone can take out a pre-existing condition policy, then no one would ever have regular health insurance. Apply this to car insurance. I could get into a wreck, buy a policy, then demand they repair my car. Sounds dumb, no? Well, someone born with a health condition is not taking out "insurance." They are taking out a payment plan.

There are basic payment plans available for hospitalization, pharmacy, treatment, and diagnosis steps.

[LibertyEagle]

The OP is discussing Type One, which he said pretty clearly. Saying "you can cure this with lifestyle choice" is just demonstrating your own ignorance on the subject.

* * *

Insurance is, by definition, something you are taking out for the "just in case" scenario. If everyone can take out a pre-existing condition policy, then no one would ever have regular health insurance. Apply this to car insurance. I could get into a wreck, buy a policy, then demand they repair my car. Sounds dumb, no? Well, someone born with a health condition is not taking out "insurance." They are taking out a payment plan.

There are basic payment plans available for hospitalization, pharmacy, treatment, and diagnosis steps.

The problem with that is the fact that people without insurance, or those with insurance that does not have negotiated rates, are charged up to 4 TIMES the amount that the same health provider would receive from an insurance company. To me, this is the biggest problem.

It's one thing to pay close to the same amount for a procedure, it's another to be financially raped.

[MelissaWV]

The problem with that is the fact that people without insurance, or those with insurance that does not have negotiated rates, are charged up to 4 TIMES the amount that the same health provider would receive from a healthcare provider. To me, this is the biggest problem.

It's one thing to pay close to the same amount for a procedure, it's another to be financially raped.

Not in my experience... but I can see where that might happen. Then again, private-pay patients are a much larger financial risk than those coming through an established insurance company.

[LibertyEagle]

Not in my experience... but I can see where that might happen. Then again, private-pay patients are a much larger financial risk than those coming through an established insurance company.

It is not a maybe. It is a fact. 60 Minutes even had a show about it a few years back.

Financial risk has nothing to do with it. They send you the bill after the procedure and stick it to you. Especially hospitals, who admit they use this opportunity to get some of the money back that they are forced to spend on illegal aliens, etc.

There is little to no competition in healthcare and that is largely caused by government interference. With the jacked-up prices also caused by government interference, it makes it almost impossible to live without health insurance. If you have a pre-existing condition that causes you to be turned down for insurance, you are basically screwed twice. The second time, because if you do not have insurance, you also do not have access to the negotiated rates and thus are charged up to 4X the amount.

This is way screwed up.

[MelissaWV]

It is not a maybe. It is a fact. 60 Minutes even had a show about it a few years back.

Financial risk has nothing to do with it. They send you the bill after the procedure and stick it to you. Especially hospitals, who admit they use this opportunity to get some of the money back that they are forced to spend on illegal aliens, etc.

Oddly I neither experience this, nor do this, and I am a medical biller. Billing patients as private pay ensures that a large number will just never pay at all. It's money out the window, and you cannot repo the time and medical procedures which were expended on the patient. The employees who rendered the care, and the supplies which were used, and the hospital bed which was taken up, and the time which cannot be recovered... those were already paid out by the company providing the care. There is no way to not pay a nurse and say "sorry; your patient didn't pay their bill."

People without insurance or with massive copays/co-insurance generally have to pay something up front since we are not emergency care. You will see more and more places going to this. As far as emergency care, when you are "stuck" with a bill, try negotiating it down or asking about the hospital's charity care program. You'd be surprised.

[angelatc]

The problem with that is the fact that people without insurance, or those with insurance that does not have negotiated rates, are charged up to 4 TIMES the amount that the same health provider would receive from a healthcare provider. To me, this is the biggest problem.

It's one thing to pay close to the same amount for a procedure, it's another to be financially raped.

People without insurance need to shop around, and that crap would stop. We haven't had insurance for 2 years now, and we always pay less than what our insurance company paid once they find out that we don't have insurance and are price shopping. Our office visit was $125 when we were insured, now it's $55.

[LibertyEagle]

People without insurance need to shop around, and that crap would stop. We haven't had insurance for 2 years now, and we always pay less than what our insurance company paid once they find out that we don't have insurance and are price shopping. Our office visit was $125 when we were insured, now it's $55.

Try going to the hospital.

[angelatc]

Try going to the hospital.

My husband had a stroke in September. Wanna try again?

[wrestlingwes_8]

The OP is discussing Type One, which he said pretty clearly. Saying "you can cure this with lifestyle choice" is just demonstrating your own ignorance on the subject.

Parroting the same line by the medical establishment demonstrates your own naivety on health in general. I can assure you people have done exactly what I have said, they have cured all types of diabetes before. That isn't something modern medicine can say; they cure NOTHING, only treat symptoms.

[The Other Andy]

Individual states could pass laws requiring that insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions. States currently require mandates. From Idaho with 14 mandates to Minnesota with 63. Of course with these mandates comes a higher price.
Individual states also offer low cost or free insurance to low income individuals as well as those that are unemployable.
It all goes back to allowing the states to set there own guidelines instead of a federal one plan fits all approach.

I'm going to chip in here as I am directly affected. I was diagnosed at birth with Phenylketonuria (PKU). READ. As a genetic disorder, simply "eating healthy and getting excercise" won't help much. In order to keep from becoming severely malnourished, I have to consume a supplement similar to those protein powders you can get at GNC. In addition to various vitamins and nutrients, it includes protein has been engineered without Phenylalanine (the amino acid that I can't digest properly, read the link).

Wisconsin pays for this. Essentially the UW Clinic charges (I think it's around $9) the parents of a newborn to test for the disorder. Some of that money is set aside in a fund to pay for the formula that I and others in the state require. I understand (and sympathize) with the "Why should I have to pay" mentality (though the child should be tested either way, left untreated it will result in severe mental retardation and seizures), and I've been exploring other options. Understand, however, that this stuff is freaking expensive. I use Mead-Johnson's Phenyl-free HP2.

http://www.drugstore.com/mead-johnso...dult/qxp308421
>$50 a can, which would last about 2 1/2 days for me.

Some have mentioned forcing private insurance to cover it. I vehemently oppose that idea for two reasons: 1. It goes 100% against the idea of private insurance, 2. Insurance companies are very good at making loopholes (just ask anyone with PKU in a state that has done this). In fact, John Kerry has proposed the Medical Food Equities Act that would force private insurance to cover stuff like this on a nation-wide level, and i have written against this (I can post that essay here if anyone cares to read it).

As I said, I have been looking at other options. As far as I am aware there are no private charities that help with it. I assume that has to do with the shear cost of the stuff, and the variety of products needed. I'm going to explore that route further though. Maybe I'll join the free state project and set up a charity there.

The simple fact is that there are no easy-fixes for some problems. I think some on this board tend to oversimplify many things.

[angelatc]

Your father doesn't want insurance - he wants somebody else to pay for his condition.

I don't want to. I have my own conditions to worry about. And if he works, there's already a clause in the law prohibiting the insurance company from refusing to accept him on a group policy.

In a free market, he would have to pay higher rates because he's going to use more resources. Obviously, that's something he doesn't want to hear.

[Mythias]

I find it disheartening to hear good people so often argue over money when talking about a person's life. Life and liberty is what I am for, not just liberty alone. Sure money is a part of everything including being alive but dang, can't people have a heart. If it was you or your dad, would certain people still respond in such ways? Don't let your passion for liberty turn you into a advocate for personal greed. Life and liberty is something we should be trying to not only have for ourselves but also for our fellow man, along with some human decency. I'm sure I have ruffled some feathers but I don't care, I ruffle feathers all the time. Some times it's the only way to get a person's attention and get people to listen.

[tttppp]

Hey everyone, I just joined these forums so I apologize since there may already be a thread like this, but I am having trouble taking a free market stance on this issue. Like many other Americans who have this problem, my father often makes a point in support of Obamacare using the fact that he has lived his life with juvenile (type 1) diabetes and has been mostly unable to get health insurance. While I understand that no government philosophy leads to a utopia, and certainly not one with the measures made in Obamacare, I am having trouble figuring what government nonintervention could do to fix this issue. Obviously the main culprit here is the insurance companies, but at this point unfortunately everyone is dependent on them despite their practices. I have learned of the many free market solutions in terms of lowering health care costs and raising the quality of health care, but there are many other issues that must be dealt with. I am sick of hearing conservative politicians defending insurance companies with the argument that "well, no car insurance company should be forced to cover automobiles that are already broken down". I do believe in property/contract rights, but so many Americans are denied health insurance without Obamacare.
With all this said, I do however understand the consequences of Obamacare (lower quality care, higher costs, rationing, etc.), but is there any other solution? Maybe through tax incentives for health insurance companies?

Well, any answers to my question would truly be helpful, I am really glad I joined these forums. Ron Paul 2012!

The main thing to do is switch to chinese traditional medicine which will actually cure these conditions. Instead of having to take drugs for the rest of your life, you can do acupuncture and herbs for a few months, then never need treatment again.

Also, I don't understand everyone obsession with pre existing conditions. EVERYONE has a pre existing condition. There are very very few people with perfect health. Just about everyone has some sort of imbalance. Nobody should be punished just for being diagnosed with something by some stupid doctor. By switching to CTM people would realize this.

[MelissaWV]

Screw it.

[tttppp]

You're not being punished. You're being denied access to a private contract that states that, for a static monthly premium on par with healthier people, you will be provided with care and medication for your condition.

Just because you have been diagnosed with something, doesn't mean you're any less curable than someone who has not been diagnosed with something. Doctors don't know anything. Insurance companies should not be making decisions based on what some stupid doctor says. Everyone has some sort of pre existing condition. It just happens that doctors were able to notice some of them. So people who have been diagnosed with something are being denied access for no good reason at all.

[MelissaWV]

Just because you have been diagnosed with something, doesn't mean you're any less curable than someone who has not been diagnosed with something. Doctors don't know anything. Insurance companies should not be making decisions based on what some stupid doctor says. Everyone has some sort of pre existing condition. It just happens that doctors were able to notice some of them. So people who have been diagnosed with something are being denied access for no good reason at all.

They are being denied COVERAGE (not access) by a private insurance company which has determined they are high risk. "High risk" involves complications, costs for car, etc.. That is the entire point of an insurance company, and the only way they are ever going to stay afloat. Offering everyone the same coverage and premiums because "everyone has something" is ridiculous. It is insurance, not a payment plan; if you would like a payment plan, work with your provider(s) and pharmacy.

[tttppp]

They are being denied COVERAGE (not access) by a private insurance company which has determined they are high risk. "High risk" involves complications, costs for car, etc.. That is the entire point of an insurance company, and the only way they are ever going to stay afloat. Offering everyone the same coverage and premiums because "everyone has something" is ridiculous. It is insurance, not a payment plan; if you would like a payment plan, work with your provider(s) and pharmacy.

What exactly makes them high risk? A doctor diagnosed them with something? Thats bull$#@!. There is no proof that someone who is diagnosed with something is any less curable than someone who has not been diagnosed with something. I'm proof. I needed a similar amount of treatment as people with cancer or a failing liver, but according to doctors, I was completely healthy. Point is, doctors are retards, and we should not be basing any decisions on what they say.

[MelissaWV]

Screw it.

[tod evans]

Point is, doctors are retards, and we should not be basing any decisions on what they say.

Cool,

You do your herbal stuff.....Some of us prefer to trust our health to a person who has studied and understood both medicine and modern pharmacology.

Personally I prefer a doctor versed in homeopathic and modern medicine but that's me and I'm not calling herbologists or homeopaths stupid or retarded.

I kind of like the fact that modern medicine offers such "stupid" things as a laboratory, CAT & PET scans, laparoscopic surgery to mention a few..

[LibertyRevolution]

Insurance is for in case something happens.
If something is already wrong with you, why should they be forced to insure you?
They make their money betting that something wont happen to you.
They are a business, they exist to make a profit, not help people.
If you have some existing condition that is gonna cost them more than your gonna pay in, why would you expect them to cover you?
Insurance is not a charity, it is there to cover healthy people in case unforeseeable $#@! happens.

Expecting an insurance company to cover someone with a existing condition would be like...
Forcing a jewelry store owner to hire a known felon as security, even though they have the background check saying he robs jewelery stores..

So what are you to do?? Find a charity to help you. Ask your church. Ask your friends. Ask your family. Ask random strangers.
All that fails, guess its time for you to die, survival of the fittest you know..
What you should NOT do is use government force to rob me to pay for your bills.


EDIT:
Yeah that came across a bit cold there at the end..
Thought about changing it, but you know what, a little hard dose reality may help some others out..