Kucinich And Stephen Zarlenga Anti-Gold Drive

[Roy L]

Roy believes if a dog barks, there must be two dogs.

Whereas BF believes the presence of a dog does not imply that at least two other dogs existed....

Fiat system is what we have. It is under the control of the money issuer.

No. The current system is not a fiat money system, as the great majority of our money is issued by private banks as debt.

Because you hold some crack pot theory of "Debt" money - you are so twisted around, you think banks make money out of thin air

They make it out of borrowers' legal obligations to repay their debts.

- yet! when any one tries to collect this thin air money ... it evaporates!

Nonsense. It is when debts are repaid that debt money disappears. I have already explained this to you.

[Roy L]

The ability to manipulate gold long term and systemically does not exist.

The gold market trade is the largest trade on earth ... its size eventually and shortly overwhelms anyone too stupid or too slow.

Look at the gold price chart for the last 30 years and tell me the market has not been manipulated. It was OBVIOUSLY kept in a narrow trading range in the 1990s.

[S.Shorland]

http://www.monetary.org/ As this is where the statists will come from after the collapse,They get 33% of their support from sales of his book so on second thoughts,don't buy it.Watch the videos here and on youtube and his website.

http://www.monetary.org/the-1930s-ch...ry-act/2009/08

[dancjm]

My understanding is that:

Fiat money is money which is not backed by a physical asset, but circulated and used on the basis of legal tender laws.

The definition of fiat being: A formal authorization or proposition; a decree.

Debt money is "money" which is in fact not money at all, but debt. In fact if I understand correctly, it is not just that a bank creates a debt from the borrower to the bank, but also that the bank creates a debt from the bank to the borrower. So the bank promises to pay the borrower what the borrower promises to pay back to the bank. In effect there is no money, just a whole load of promises to pay (I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of XXX)





So if I understand correctly, we have a fiat-debt money system.

[S.Shorland]

Grignon's 'money as debt' and 'money as debt II : promises unleashed' seem to be along the same lines.In his second part,grignon hides (intentionally I expect) Hoover's ignoring of Mellon's advice to let 'em go bust and all Hoover's big programs and paints a rosey picture of FDR. From the video they are trying to create a meme and seemingly being very successfull at it.They know as well as we that something is coming down the track and they are making their plans to be the inheritors.Know your enemy.

Zerlanger is a sociologist.A mind-bender.I'd be very interested to discover his associations.A smiling face on the iron fist.

[S.Shorland]

..

[LibForestPaul]

No, it makes sense because it isn't.

Nope. Buy on margin, kite the price, sell at a profit. You seem to have a remarkably naive view of how financial markets work.

Nope. Deflation is NOT good for everyone else.

Unless someone is pointing a gun at a group, free market will intervene and a new medium and commodity for exchanging goods will be sought and agreed upon VOLUNTARILY.

[cubical]

Look at the gold price chart for the last 30 years and tell me the market has not been manipulated. It was OBVIOUSLY kept in a narrow trading range in the 1990s.

What is so manipulated about it? Just because you don't think a price should be where it is, means nothing. The market is greater than you.

Your "debt money" talk would make sense if you truly believe the fed will call in this debt money and eliminate it. Debt money has done and will cause inflation just as physical money.

[smokemonsc]

Not when the currency IS a good. When its value gets too far from its production cost, the system becomes unstable.

Actually if that occurs than the production of said good decreases until the equilibrium is found again. Is it coincidence that a set of fine dress clothes has cost about an ounce of gold going all the way back to Ancient Rome?

I wonder how that happened.

[Lafayette]

The current system is a debt money system, not a fiat money system. A fiat money system is under the control of the money issuer, basically the government. The debt money system is under the control of bankers, who issue money by lending it. Much as I distrust government, I trust it more than I trust bankers.

Oh... i see. So for the sake of argument lets just forget for a second that the bankers and all the other special interests and complexes don't infest and control government. We just put the printing press into the hands of guys who bring us such wonderful things as the patriot act, NDDA, assassinations of US citizens, TSA, the war on drugs, endless foreign wars and 10s of trillions in debt and unfunded liabilities and things will be sooooooo much better....