Next toy...

[The Freethinker]

... hello fellow weap0n-t0ting liberty lovers. I have decided to get more home defense toys. Specifically, another handgun.

I already own a wheelgun, which I love, and which I'm quite comfortable with. I've read pros & cons of revolvers vs. pistols, and I originally went with a revolver because it was more affordable than semi-automatic pistols, because it was recommended as a solid first weapon for beginner gun owners, and because it is very easy to clean and simple to use.

So now, I'm wondering what I should get. I would not mind getting another wheelgun, but I did think of the "variety" factor. I believe it would be useful to become familiar with semi-auto pistols (yes, I know they are diverse; there's the 1911s, and a large host of other types, sizes, and calibers).

If you, then, were to recommend a handgun to add somebody's home defense arsenal, which handgun would it be?

And, semi-auto enthusiasts: your feedback is particularly desired and welcome, for as I said, I've been a wheelgun gun so far.

[pcosmar]

I am disarmed by law,, have been for some time. So I don't have experience with the "Latest and Greatest".

I am a fan of 'wheelguns". Was at one time quite proficient with single actions, and that would still be my preference,, though Double actions are more convenient. I would be quite comfortable with any of the Peacemaker type handguns.

For a semi-Auto the 1911 is a time proven and oft copied design. It has both simplicity and dependability.
You would not go wrong with that as a second gun,,

There are dozens that are on my wish list,, for various reasons.
From historical to aesthetic,, but those "basics" would be my first choices.

[azxd]

What's your budget is a valid, but secondary importance.

You'll never go wrong with a Springfield XD/XDm or a Glock ... Both of which can be obtained for $400-$700 new, depending on model and geographic location, and I'd not hesitate to purchase one used, if it seems in good condition.

They are both proven reliable, and many owners have fired 10's of thousands of rounds through them without a hickup that could not be related to ammo ... Myself, I stopped counting on an XD9 when I lost track at about the 10,000 round mark.

Also,
Forget the caliber debate !!
Modern ammunition has came a long way, and a 9mm is just as effective as a 40 or 45 ... If using modern ammunition.

The thing you want to be concerned with is how it feels in your hand, first of all ... Then what caliber you can effectively use for a follow up shot, if needed.

Hand cannons seem nice, but if you can't control the thing ... It's wasted money, and might cost you your life.

Shoot before you buy ... How it feels in your hand is one thing, but how it feels when you fire is the most important factor.
Some have a greater perceived recoil due to their design.

As a starting point, before you fire, hold the gun, locate a point on a wall, fixate on that point with the gun at your side, then with eyes closed, raise the gun to where you imagine the spot is ... The one that is closest to location is the gun you want, because it is a more natural fit to your hand, and allows for a more instinctive shooting method of target acquisition.

Best of luck with your decision, PM me if you want ... And let us know what you decide.

[Uriel999]

I'd second an XD. I love mine. I've got over 2000 rounds through mine and it has served me very well. Every FTF or FTE was either ammo related, or a certain user limp wristing. So I have improved how I hold the weapon, and my stance in general while avoided the brand of ammunition mine didn't like (believe it or not it was Federal!) and I try to stick with PMC which I know it loves. I've only shot FMJ out of mine but she has proven herself a workhorse. I shoot my XD more than any other firearm I own so I think that says something.

[Pericles]

First consideration is ammunition.

Second consideration is your ability to fire the weapon accurately.

Third consideration is reliability, design, and aibility for you to replace parts yourself.

[MikeStanart]

Found this on Slickguns.com
Springfield XD9 for $379.99

This is a great site that posts gun deals from other sites.

I purchased this as my first firearm. Absolutely happy with it! Hasn't jammed once!


http://www.sportsmansoutdoorsupersto...34/c/hot-deals

[TheTexan]

Whatever it is you get, you'll want a light rail. Very important to have a light on your home defense weapons.

[azxd]

Whatever it is you get, you'll want a light rail. Very important to have a light on your home defense weapons.

A light rail is arguable at best ... The option is a plus, but mounting a light on the gun also places the target (your light) directly in front of you.

I have one mounted, but also have a very bright mini-light that can be held off to the side.

Each has an advantage/disadvantage.

[TheTexan]

The option is a plus, but mounting a light on the gun also places the target (your light) directly in front of you...Each has an advantage/disadvantage.

True, there are pro's and con's with this specific point. But having the light attached to the weapon ensures that if you have your weapon, you have your light. In a home defense situation, a weapon is useless without a light.

Just keep your finger off the boom switch until you've ID'ed your target. I believe they make detachable kinds though. Which would be a very good compromise.

[Sullivan*]

Bersa is really a well-kept secret. Pretty good, reliable pieces with relatively rough finishes. Argentina manufactured, traditional double action pistols, and most come with polygonal rifled barrels. They're UC (Ultra Compact) stuff isn't really that small, but it would work for concealment, and they've also got full sized models.

You can't go wrong with Beretta, CZ, EAA/Tanfoglio (CZ copy), Glock (sucky grip angle, otherwise a fine design), H&K (MUY EXPENSIVO), High-Point (inexpensive, rough quality, but reliable and American made), Ruger, SIG (another high priced for seemingly no good reason beyond the name), Smith & Wesson, Springfield Armory, you get the idea...

If I were to buy handgun right now, I'd certainly want to shoot a few choice examples, namely Beretta PX4, CZ P07, Ruger SR9, S&W M&P, SA XD/XDm. I had an FN in 9mm for about 2 months before it broke... I'm sure it's a great gun, but I simply had a piss-poor experience and it killed it for me. I really like the trigger on the M&P, but you really have to shoot a gun to know how compatible to you it really is.

[BamaAla]

I'll spare you the obligatory "go shoot a bunch of guns" and just tell you to get yourself a Gen 3 Glock 17. Easy to shoot, easy to service, few moving parts, and maybe the most reliable gun ever made.

[TheTexan]

I'll spare you the obligatory "go shoot a bunch of guns" and just tell you to get yourself a Gen 3 Glock 17. Easy to shoot, easy to service, few moving parts, and maybe the most reliable gun ever made.

Pretty much.

[Acala]

If you don't have ANY semi-auto, you should get a 1911. You owe it to yourself to see if you fall in love with the greatest semi-auto handgun ever made. Notice I didn't say the best. There are guns that are more accurate, more reliable, have greater mag capacity, are lighter, blah blah blah. But NO GUN combines the history, reliability, ingenuity, shootability, stopping power, hand-feel, after market mods, and handsome good looks of a .45. And you can get decent ones cheap out of the Phillipines if you can't afford the high end stuff.

And if you don't fall in love with it, there is no shame in 9mm, alloy, or even (gag) plastic. There are LOTS of great guns besides 1911s. But the 1911 stands apart. Find out why, then decide if you want to go in another direction.

[tod evans]

PPK or 1911

[Pericles]

If you don't have ANY semi-auto, you should get a 1911. You owe it to yourself to see if you fall in love with the greatest semi-auto handgun ever made. Notice I didn't say the best. There are guns that are more accurate, more reliable, have greater mag capacity, are lighter, blah blah blah. But NO GUN combines the history, reliability, ingenuity, shootability, stopping power, hand-feel, after market mods, and handsome good looks of a .45. And you can get decent ones cheap out of the Phillipines if you can't afford the high end stuff.

And if you don't fall in love with it, there is no shame in 9mm, alloy, or even (gag) plastic. There are LOTS of great guns besides 1911s. But the 1911 stands apart. Find out why, then decide if you want to go in another direction.

That is certainly where I am emotionally. But, my experience is that one is either good with a 1911, or one isn't. And if you don't instinctively shoot it well, you probably never will.

[Acala]

So you know that I'm not wedded to "old fashioned" guns, I just bought one of these:

[XTreat]

I will never own anything but a 1911. I have a RIA .45 and a Sig Sauer .380 both 1911 model.

I much prefer the single action and short trigger travel, I like to have the thumb safety, and to be honest it just feels good in my hand when I fire it. I have fired friends glocks and would never own one.

My .02.

[AFPVet]

True, there are pro's and con's with this specific point. But having the light attached to the weapon ensures that if you have your weapon, you have your light. In a home defense situation, a weapon is useless without a light.

Just keep your finger off the boom switch until you've ID'ed your target. I believe they make detachable kinds though. Which would be a very good compromise.

I just hold my surefire with my left hand under my right arm in a cross. That's how we were always trained... it works very well!

[Acala]

I just hold my surefire with my left hand under my right arm in a cross. That's how we were always trained... it works very well!

Me too. And I have Crimson Trace grips on the .45 I use for home defense.

[fisharmor]

I'll spare you the obligatory "go shoot a bunch of guns" and just tell you to get yourself a Gen 3 Glock 17. Easy to shoot, easy to service, few moving parts, and maybe the most reliable gun ever made.

I'd go with the Glock 19. Same caliber in a compact form.
Reason:
Handguns are not popular home defense weapons. I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet, but every "which handgun should I get for home defense" thread always includes the reply "get a shotgun".
The only reason to get a full-size handgun in my opinion is if you're open-carrying on a regular basis, or it isn't leaving the house.
If you're not OC and it leaves the house, a fullsize is going to be harder to conceal.

Also, full disclosure: I don't like Glocks. And I own one.
I own a 9mm G26 which is my carry piece.
It doesn't jump as much as other small guns.
It has the Glock reliability and parts/ holster availability.

It has the short reset trigger, which I consider to be essential for a semi-auto handgun. What this means is that you don't have to let the trigger go forward all the way like you do with a double-action revolver. You only have to let it go back as much as a single action would go before it'll fire again.
A double-single semi-auto is the only other type of semi-auto I'd consider (other than Glock-style short reset) - and for the same reason. The follow-up shots are SA and have a shorter reset, IIRC.

Do I love 1911s? Absolutely. Would I carry one? Well, not sure: I really consider it in the same category as a good DA revolver.
7+1 is nice (but still doable in a revolver). Fast reloads are nice (require much more practice in a revolver).
The reason I keep comparing them is because the nature of shooting them is the same, and shooting a Glock is different.
Shooting a 45 1911 and a 357 magnum S&W 686 is the same process: aim, fire, pull your arm back out of the air and bring it back down on target.
You get a shot, then a comparatively long recovery. Follow-ups are difficult. You really need to hit the first time.

With a short-reset polymer, you can pretty quickly get to the point of mastering that short reset, and in 9mm (especially with a larger G19 or G17) you can get two or three rounds on target in the same amount of time it takes you to get one 357 magnum round on target.

For me that represents a different force continuum. One 9mm round is not necessarily as lethal - not like a magnum or a 45. Two 9mm rounds - I would think that would at least equal a magnum. Rounds 3-4 should more than finish the job. And all that is conceivably happening in the space of how long it takes go get your hog leg on target and pull the trigger once.

You can argue the point as to whether or not less lethality is a good thing. My point is that multiple 75% chances of a stop is better than one 90% chance of a stop - one miss makes the 90% chance a 0% chance.

[osan]

I'd go with the Glock 19. Same caliber in a compact form.

People should probably learn to shoot first, and should shoot several different sorts of handguns before choosing which to purchase. Buying the wrong gun is not a wise move, IMO.

Handguns are not popular home defense weapons.

I would not go quite that far. They are very popular with many of the people I know, including myself... do I know myself, though?

Also, full disclosure: I don't like Glocks. And I own one.

I do not care for Glocks either, but if someone likes them then they should perhaps get one of those. That said, I have friends who are champion marksmen and they ALL say that you get a Glock if you do not care whether you hit that at which you are aiming.

For the record, I carry a 686 and an XD40.

It has the short reset trigger, which I consider to be essential for a semi-auto handgun.

Most people are not nearly well enough trained to where this would make any real difference to them. If you're shooting to save your hide, chances are you will go into trance, act, and be able to recall only bits and pieces afterward. What will make a difference is how well trained you are to the weapon. If you bought it and tossed it into the nightstand, you may be in some poo when it hits the fan.

Do I love 1911s? Absolutely. Would I carry one? Well, not sure: I really consider it in the same category as a good DA revolver.

Huh? 1911s shoot NOTHING like a D/A. You must mean something that did not come across clearly in your wording.

7+1 is nice (but still doable in a revolver). Fast reloads are nice (require much more practice in a revolver).

If you are in such $#@! that you actually need to reload, you perhaps ought to have gone out with friends. Lots of them. All armed.

The reason I keep comparing them is because the nature of shooting them is the same, and shooting a Glock is different.
Shooting a 45 1911 and a 357 magnum S&W 686 is the same process: aim, fire, pull your arm back out of the air and bring it back down on target.

Hmmm... this is not my experience. Even with very hot Cor-Bon loads, my 686 barely climbs at all. My 1911 less so. But everybody is different, which is why I always recommend that people try shooting as many different types and calibers as possible. I am not at all recoil sensitive. I've shot 10mm, 44 mag, 454 Casull... none of them particularly wild IMO. I have yet, however, to shoot 500 Smith or that other heavy 500 whose name I cannot recall offhand. I would be interested to see how those work in a shorter barreled gun.

I did once see some loon shooting an xp-100 in 458 Winchester. I confess I was not game for that toy. Not sure I would be even now as I am still rather fond of my wrists.

You get a shot, then a comparatively long recovery. Follow-ups are difficult. You really need to hit the first time.

Either you are doing something wrong or... well, I don't even know. 357 and 45 ACP are very tame cartridges, IMO. One's arms should not be moving at all.

With a short-reset polymer, you can pretty quickly get to the point of mastering that short reset, and in 9mm (especially with a larger G19 or G17) you can get two or three rounds on target in the same amount of time it takes you to get one 357 magnum round on target.

I am not a fan of 9mm. Very anemic round. I would much prefer 40 Smith. If you load 40 Smith long for a 1911 style pistol indented for 10mm you can get full load 10mm performance from it with much stronger brass.

One of my father's shooting buddies owned a liquor store in Brooklyn. One night a guy came in to rob him and he dumped rounds of 9mm into him before he dropped. That is no bull$#@!. Guy was probably drugged up, though I do not recall specifically. I want as close to a one hit stop as possible and the 45 ACP is far and away closer to that ideal than the 9mm. Hot .40s the same and 357 as well. But to each his own I always say.

You can argue the point as to whether or not less lethality is a good thing. My point is that multiple 75% chances of a stop is better than one 90% chance of a stop - one miss makes the 90% chance a 0% chance.

You NEVER want less power. Never ever. More is always better because if things are hot enough to warrant shooting, you had better damned be sure you are putting your opponent down dead as stone. Hollywood and TV fade into mist when your life is flashing before you. When you're that pumped up things become very, very simple. The best answer is to shoot as often as possible so that your training kicks in when your rational mind slips into neutral, which it most likely will when faced with life and death decision time. As the Boy Scouts say, always be prepared.

[pcosmar]

I just hold my surefire with my left hand under my right arm in a cross. That's how we were always trained... it works very well!

I have always had the eyes of a cat.
I can see in the dark(or very very low light) starlight is plenty. Moon is golden.

[Acala]

I have always had the eyes of a cat.
.

Kind of a creepy hobby, bro.

[pcosmar]

Kind of a creepy hobby, bro.

lol

[GuerrillaXXI]

I'll spare you the obligatory "go shoot a bunch of guns" and just tell you to get yourself a Gen 3 Glock 17. Easy to shoot, easy to service, few moving parts, and maybe the most reliable gun ever made.

Bingo. Although any company can put out the occasional lemon, that gun is almost certainly the most reliable and durable handgun you can buy. I've heard about the Gen 4 Glocks having some issues, but some say they've been resolved. I went with the Gen 3 anyway. As a bonus, I got some 33-round magazines for it ("fun sticks" ). 33 rounds of 9mm +P is a lot of firepower for such a small package.

The Smith & Wesson M&P handguns are also supposed to be excellent. They have better ergonomics than the Glock, but I consider the proven long-term reliability of the Glock to be more important.

Although other guns might also be fine, I see no reason to spend money on anything other than the most heavily-tested weapons.

Here's a good rundown on handguns and ammo. The author comes off as pedantic and self-important (in most of his writings), and being associated with modern US law enforcement, he's no friend of freedom. Still, he does have a lot of exposure to and experience with a wide variety of weapons that see a lot of use. Thus, we can learn from his experiences here:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887

If you want a Glock, get it in 9 mm, as the pre-2011 3rd gen 9 mm Glocks are probably the most proven pistols available. The new 4th gen G21's are also working well so far.

The HK45 and HK P30 are good reliable service pistols with great accuracy, but beware of HK customer service and parts availability.

These days, skip new Sigs, although the older German made Sig 9 mm’s are superb...

Unless you are issued one and have no other choice, Beretta is not optimal.

XD's are a no go for serious use--the inability to retract the slide without engaging the grip safety makes one-hand injured operation very difficult with the XD--this is a deal breaker for me. In addition, in some government tests, XD's (particularly the .40's) have broken a lot of parts compared to other pistols being tested...I'll take a 9 mm Glock or M&P any day of the week over an XD.

The M&P may just be the best LE service pistol produced to date. I was involved in a M&P40 trial at a large agency where four M&P40's fired 7000 rounds each in 1 week without any significant issues. Up to this point, we have not seen any major problems with M&P40/45's--they just keep steadily improving. Some M&P9's exhibit accuracy issues at ranges beyond 15 yds--hopefully S&W will soon rectify this inconsistency. The Apex duty kits can offer a substantial improvement for those who object to the OEM M&P trigger feel. An M&P40 w/ambi safety and Apex duty kit will be the service pistol I'll pick if I ever go back to uniformed LE patrol duties again.

BTW, I've read some horror stories that should make people cautious with the .40 S&W. Although it has good ballistics, it can be dangerous if a bullet gets pushed too far back into the casing by even a tiny amount. Pressures can double as a result. This can happen either from knocking loose rounds against things or from chambering a round more than once. Repeatedly chambering and extracting rounds is a bad idea in general, but especially with the .40 S&W.

I don't mean to overstate the danger. Guns don't exactly blow up from this every day, and the .40 is very, very popular. But it doesn't hurt to be cautious of these things.

[mortepa]

If you already have a revolver, then the handgun I would recommend is a Glock 19. It is user-customizeable, concealable, high capacity, and reliable.

I would also consider a compact 1911 or Walther P99 in 9mm.

There you go, those are my favorite pistols. I have found 9mm +P ammo to be plenty of power for my needs.

[AFPVet]

BTW, I've read some horror stories that should make people cautious with the .40 S&W. Although it has good ballistics, it can be dangerous if a bullet gets pushed too far back into the casing by even a tiny amount. Pressures can double as a result. This can happen either from knocking loose rounds against things or from chambering a round more than once. Repeatedly chambering and extracting rounds is a bad idea in general, but especially with the .40 S&W.

I don't mean to overstate the danger. Guns don't exactly blow up from this every day, and the .40 is very, very popular. But it doesn't hurt to be cautious of these things.

This is why I like the 10mm. The 10mm can be loaded to .40, but it can also be loaded to .357 Magnum ballistics—all with a generous amount of case capacity and higher pressure threshold (35k .40) (37.5k 10mm).

[presence]

Ruger 22/45 1911 style

http://www.ruger.com/products/2245/index.html

buy that... get nasty accurate with it on cheap 22lr rounds, teach your wife and kid to shoot it as well, then make gun #3 a "real" .45 1911 http://www.ruger.com/products/sr1911/models.html ; you'll be used to it fitting into your hand already; you just have to adapt to the recoil. In the mean time... don't kid yourself or let anyone tell you otherwise... a triple tap to the chest w/ expanding 22lr will stop anyone (sans armor) dead at your door (and with a lot less noise and mess than a center fire pistol).

You can pick up a used 22/45 for under $200 bucks at your local gun shop and 2500 rounds of ammo for under $100 too. Plinking makes perfect.

presence

[chudrockz]

Bump, curious to know what, if anything, was chosen by the OP for "next toy".