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Thread: German Nobel laureate labels Israel a threat to "world peace" in his poem

  1. #1

    Default German Nobel laureate labels Israel a threat to "world peace" in his poem

    Unlike the nobel peace prize winner in the WH, this German nobel prize winner sees things very differently. Would be interesting to see how Obama'a handlers and neocon media would respond to this:


    Guenter Grass, German Nobel Winner, Criticizes Israel Over Iran Tensions
    By JUERGEN BAETZ 04/ 4/12 01:25 PM ET

    BERLIN — German Nobel literature laureate Guenter Grass labeled Israel a threat to "already fragile world peace" in a poem published Wednesday that drew sharp rebukes at home and from Israel.

    In the poem titled "What must be said," published in German daily Sueddeutsche Zeitung and Italy's La Repubblica among others, Grass criticized what he described as Western hypocrisy over Israel's own suspected nuclear program amid speculation that it might engage in military action against Iran to stop it building a suspected atomic bomb.

    The 84-year-old Grass said he had been prompted to put pen to paper by Berlin's recent decision to sell Israel a submarine able to "send all-destroying warheads where the existence of a single nuclear bomb is unproven."

    "The nuclear power Israel is endangering the already fragile world peace," he wrote. His poem specifically criticized Israel's "claim to the right of a first strike" against Iran.

    Grass also called for "unhindered and permanent control of Israel's nuclear capability and Iran's atomic facilities through an international body."
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1402208.html



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  3. #2

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    I have read Grass extensively, so this is interesting to see. But I always avoid his poems, just dislike such things in general.
    E che sospiri la libertà!

  4. #3

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    Does anybody speak German who could translate it or know of a decent English translation? Google translate doesn't do it justice.

    http://www.sueddeutsche.de/kultur/ge...muss-1.1325809

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    Queue the NAZI accusations.

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    Don't worry, the Mossad will get him.
    www.paultheway.com -Encourage Ron Paul To Run All the Way to the End.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphim View Post
    Queue the NAZI accusations.
    He was drafted into the Waffen-SS when he was 17. But he's quite a leftie/democratic socialist.

    It's surprising to see a German with balls to say this though. 60+ years of reeducation have seriously castrated German men from speaking up about anything. Make sense, when you're taught from the moment you go to school that you have to feel guilty about things you had no hand in and that Germany must always feel shame for being Germany, it destroys a nation.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by furface View Post
    Does anybody speak German who could translate it or know of a decent English translation? Google translate doesn't do it justice.

    http://www.sueddeutsche.de/kultur/ge...muss-1.1325809
    One sec, I'll give it a try.

  9. #8

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    He'll get the Anti-semite consolation prize ...

    If by Isreal he means the criminal gang the heads it up, I would say he is correct. Otherwise, the people of that country are probably pretty good people like you and I.

  10. #9

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    I'm totally butchering it, I'm translating word for word, but trying to give the general theme of each paragraph, but here's my attempt at translating:



    Why am I silent, delaying so much,
    what's obvious and in simulations
    already played out, even if we survive
    we'll just end up being footnotes.

    It's this alleged right to a preemptive strike
    by the organized bullies
    to wipe out the Iranian people
    all just to prevent a supposed nuclear bomb

    But why do I stop myself
    from naming another country
    which in the past years has -in secret-
    grown it's nuclear potential free from controls
    because it has not openly tested its weapons?

    The concealment of this fact,
    which my silence has helped,
    I feel as a burdensome, forced lie.
    But when it's ignored, we're branded with
    the condemnation of being an "anti-Semite"

    But now because my country
    has it's own incomparable crime,
    which from time to time will be brought up for economic gain,
    as lip service to our past and as restitution,
    we will give Israel another submarine,
    capable of delivering nuclear warheads,
    although not a single nuclear weapon in their possession is acknowledged,
    I say what needs to be said.

    But why have I kept silent so long?
    As I said,my background,
    Which is afflicted by this irreparable stain,
    forbids me from acknowledging this truth
    About the land of Israel to whom I am bound

    So why do I speak up now, older and this time in ink,
    that a nuclear-armed Israel is a threat to an already fragile peace?
    It has to be said, what tomorrow might be to late to say,
    as a German burdened enough, we might as well be considered
    complicit as suppliers, but we excuse it as part of our debt (to Israel)

    ...
    Last edited by eduardo89; 04-05-2012 at 05:38 PM.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by awake View Post
    If by Isreal he means the criminal gang the heads it up, I would say he is correct. Otherwise, the people of that country are probably pretty good people like you and I.
    That's true of most countries. Actually this campaign has been getting a lot of attention lately:


    Though Israel certainly has a large population hell-bent on destroying the Arab-Persian world. We do too, unfortunately.
    www.paultheway.com -Encourage Ron Paul To Run All the Way to the End.

  12. #11

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    Eduardo, thank you so much for the translation. I'm totally in awe of multilingual people. Being born and raised in America, I never got much opportunity to become fluent in different languages. Living in Israel you must speak at least 3 languages: Hebrew, English & you've demonstrated German, probably more.

    I can get very critical of Israel, but I will always concede that the Israeli people value education and knowledge collectively more than perhaps any nation on Earth. It's a strange paradox if you ask me.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by furface View Post
    Eduardo, thank you so much for the translation. I'm totally in awe of multilingual people. Being born and raised in America, I never got much opportunity to become fluent in different languages. Living in Israel you must speak at least 3 languages: Hebrew, English & you've demonstrated German, probably more.

    I can get very critical of Israel, but I will always concede that the Israeli people value education and knowledge collectively more than perhaps any nation on Earth. It's a strange paradox if you ask me.
    lol, I'm not actually in Israel. I probably should change that, but I'm preparing myself to be a Zionist in case I ever run for office

    I speak English, Spanish and German fluently though.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    lol, I'm not actually in Israel. I probably should change that, but I'm preparing myself to be a Zionist in case I ever run for office

    I speak English, Spanish and German fluently though.
    I was wondering if it was commentary. I still think you're awesome for speaking 3 languages, and I still think Israeli society strangely values education while at the same time getting political ethics completely wrong.

    You should definitely run for office. I'm probably going to run for something in the next election cycle 2 years from now. I've decided to say exactly what I think, which will likely get me defeated, but at least it will help people get used to having political candidates tell the truth.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by furface View Post
    I was wondering if it was commentary. I still think you're awesome for speaking 3 languages, and I still think Israeli society strangely values education while at the same time getting political ethics completely wrong.

    You should definitely run for office. I'm probably going to run for something in the next election cycle 2 years from now. I've decided to say exactly what I think, which will likely get me defeated, but at least it will help people get used to having political candidates tell the truth.
    I'd love to run in the US, but first I need citizenship!!! I've thoug about running in either Mexico or Canada. I'd have a good shot at getting elected in Mexico, especially on a party list (Mexican has both direct election and proportional representation in congress) but I'd have to run as part of the socialist party if I want any chance of winning. In Canada I wont even bother,that country is lost.

    And I agree that Israelis value education, and I think it has a lot to do with their religion. Most practicing Jews take education, especially theological studies, very seriously and Israel is a very multicultural country where Hebrew, English, Russian, Ukrainian, Arabic, Yiddish, French are all commonly spoken, so they get that exposure to other languages.

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    but I'd have to run as part of the socialist party if I want any chance of winning.
    You should still do it. If Mexico is anything like the US, the lines between political parties are insignificant.

    In Canada I wont even bother,that country is lost.
    I think the US is farther gone than both Canada & Mexico. The US once was a very wealthy country and still is in some respects. It's scary to think how the US has squandered its wealth. Maybe being poor will make the US a better place.

  17. #16

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    What did eduardo89 get banned for this time?

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Other Andy View Post
    That's true of most countries. Actually this campaign has been getting a lot of attention lately:


    Though Israel certainly has a large population hell-bent on destroying the Arab-Persian world. We do too, unfortunately.

    Awsome.

    +rep

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by awake View Post
    If by Isreal he means the criminal gang the heads it up, I would say he is correct. Otherwise, the people of that country are probably pretty good people like you and I.
    I believe that's what he meant, if I'm not mistaken he specifically named Netanyaho in his explanation of why he called Israel threat to world peace.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by awake View Post
    He'll get the Anti-semite consolation prize ...

    If by Isreal he means the criminal gang the heads it up, I would say he is correct. Otherwise, the people of that country are probably pretty good people like you and I.
    In the past I've seen polls showing that the majority of Israelis have supported the atrocities committed by their government and military, e.g., the indiscriminate shelling of Lebanon in 2006 and the terrorizing of the Palestinians. But there are certainly some dissenters among the Israeli population.
    "Man lives freely only by his readiness to die." -- Mohandas K. Gandhi

    "Generally speaking, the way of the warrior is resolute acceptance of death." -- Miyamoto Musashi

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuerrillaXXI View Post
    In the past I've seen polls showing that the majority of Israelis have supported the atrocities committed by their government and military, e.g., the indiscriminate shelling of Lebanon in 2006 and the terrorizing of the Palestinians. But there are certainly some dissenters among the Israeli population.
    Those numbers are growing. Most deadly support of their violence against occupied or neighboring people still comes from outside.

  22. #21

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    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ne...8#.T4iVitkwZ-g

    I want to be a danger to the world,
    so that after my destruction, not a single blade of grass will remain on the face of the Earth,
    or a single blade of grass for Gunther Grass's pipe,
    I wonder if Zionists realize that there is actually no "I" in "Israel." "Israel" is a political state, not a person or group of people. This is the noble cause American taxpayers are forced to support, a political entity driven by people who desire to destroy the world before it is democratically or demographically extinguished.
    Last edited by furface; 04-13-2012 at 03:15 PM.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by furface View Post
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Ne...8#.T4iVitkwZ-g



    I wonder if Zionists realize that there is actually no "I" in "Israel." "Israel" is a political state, not a person or group of people. This is the noble cause American taxpayers are forced to support, a political entity driven by people who desire to destroy the world before it is democratically or demographically extinguished.
    If they admit that, they couldn't label anyone who dislikes the actions of Israel's government as anti-Semites.
    www.paultheway.com -Encourage Ron Paul To Run All the Way to the End.

  24. #23

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    Had me until this:

    Grass also called for "unhindered and permanent control of Israel's nuclear capability and Iran's atomic facilities through an international body."
    I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to Heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all.
    -Thomas Jefferson

  25. #24

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    yeah, that'll go over like a led zeppelin...
    ha

    haha






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