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Thread: U.N. to come for your guns?

  1. #31
    Member John F Kennedy III's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfurrh View Post
    Awesome
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    There would be riots in the streets, if boobus gave one shit about his honor.
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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfurrh View Post
    These threads make me laugh. They don't care if you have guns, because your guns are insignificant. They can kill you from a hundred miles away. They can wreck your home with a tank. They can poison your air and water. They're not worried about your 9mil or .30-06. They've spent the last 70 years making those as irrelevant as the bow & arrow.
    Maybe you are right, maybe not. It is irrelevant. We each of us may one day be called to make a choice. The choice we make is all that matters. Outcomes are irrelevant. We are all destined for the worms; all that really matters is how we spend the time we are given. Choose as you please and I will do the same. If you feel defeated, then you are. If you refuse defeat to the bitter end, then you can never be conquered; all "they" can do is kill you or put you into a cage. That is nothing of victory. It is, in fact, the worst sort of defeat imaginable to my way of seeing things.

    The choices are up to each of us. I may to be targeted one day, perhaps even killed - or perhaps I will simply die of old age and boredom in the fullness of time. None of that concerns me much these days. I will continue to speak my peace, come what may.
    --

    http://freedomisobvious.blogspot.com
    http://turnyourbackonthem.wordpress.com

    ignominia et contemptum tyrannis

    Habeo excelsum artem; afflixerim cum crudelitate illis qui laedas me

    Shelley's thinly veiled warning to tyrants:

    The monster saw my determination in my face and gnashed his teeth in the impotence of anger. "Shall each man," cried he, "find a wife for his bosom, and each beast have his mate, and I be alone? I had feelings of affection, and they were requited by detestation and scorn. Man! You may hate, but beware! Your hours will pass in dread and misery, and soon the bolt will fall which must ravish from you your happiness forever. Are you to be happy while I grovel in the intensity of my wretchedness? You can blast my other passions, but revenge remains--revenge, henceforth dearer than light or food! I may die, but first you, my tyrant and tormentor, shall curse the sun that gazes on your misery. Beware, for I am fearless and therefore powerful. I will watch with the wiliness of a snake, that I may sting with its venom. Man, you shall repent of the injuries you inflict.”

  4. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pericles View Post
    If that were true, the military would be using that material to replace SAPI plates in body armor with a thinner, lighter material - or the helmets made from that material are over an inch thick.

    Which is it?
    Unfortunately, it's very true. The helmet exists and is known as the Enhanced Combat Helmet (ECH). News of the progress and setbacks in its development have been in the news for a few years now:

    http://www.military.com/news/article...fle-shots.html

    It's actually a little lighter than the Kevlar helmets, in spite of its much greater bullet-stopping ability.

    Why don't they replace the SAPI plates with the polyethylene these helmets are made from? Because, as I mentioned earlier, polyethylene doesn't do well against steel-core rounds like M855 or M61. Current military ceramic plates can stop multiple hits of armor-piercing .30-06 at muzzle velocity. Even a .338 Lapua won't go through these plates unless you have the right kind of bullet. See the following thread:

    http://www.beyond556.com/bboard/show...nd-eye-surgery
    "Man lives freely only by his readiness to die." -- Mohandas K. Gandhi

    "Generally speaking, the way of the warrior is resolute acceptance of death." -- Miyamoto Musashi

  5. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by tfurrh View Post
    These threads make me laugh. They don't care if you have guns, because your guns are insignificant. They can kill you from a hundred miles away. They can wreck your home with a tank. They can poison your air and water. They're not worried about your 9mil or .30-06. They've spent the last 70 years making those as irrelevant as the bow & arrow.
    These defeatist comments reveal a lack of understanding of asymmetric warfare, especially in the context of a civil uprising.

    "They," along with their relatives and friends, generally live in the same communities as the rest of us, since we all share the same country. If they poisoned our air and water, they'd be poisoning their own. If they shelled our cities, they'd be shelling their own. If they sent tanks to destroy our houses, we could burn down their houses.

    pcosmar rightly mentioned Afghanistan as a counterpoint to what you said. There are several reasons why the Taliban (and the Iraqis before the US paid them off) remain undefeated by US and NATO forces in spite of the enormous technological and numerical advantages of the latter. You should look into these. After ten years and astronomical sums of money spent, how much has the US progressed in dominating Afghanistan, a country dwarfed in size by the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by tfurrh View Post
    When we get to organized resistance let me know...That'll be a different story. I don't see us ever doing that, because the enemy isn't foreign, and WE LOVE OUR BIG BROTHER. Even us RP folks, faced with the biggest joke of an election, tell each other to go put on our tin foil hats for even mentioning it. We point our fingers in the air, scoff at everything, and come up with nothing. That's why our guns don't matter.
    You make a valid point here. Americans don't have the will to resist tyranny even nonviolently -- at least not at present. But as the police state grows and becomes more abusive, I suspect we'll start seeing more Carl Dregas and Christopher Monforts out there. Not everyone can or will tolerate life with a boot on his neck.
    Last edited by GuerrillaXXI; 04-05-2012 at 08:26 PM.
    "Man lives freely only by his readiness to die." -- Mohandas K. Gandhi

    "Generally speaking, the way of the warrior is resolute acceptance of death." -- Miyamoto Musashi

  6. #35
    Member brushfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simple View Post
    Look at how police treat people who open carry today. It has already begun.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=fJVpCMyMKWU

    Kinda reminds me of this one

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mo...discrimination
    Don't drone me, bro!

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  7. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuerrillaXXI View Post
    Unfortunately, it's very true. The helmet exists and is known as the Enhanced Combat Helmet (ECH). News of the progress and setbacks in its development have been in the news for a few years now:

    http://www.military.com/news/article...fle-shots.html

    It's actually a little lighter than the Kevlar helmets, in spite of its much greater bullet-stopping ability.

    Why don't they replace the SAPI plates with the polyethylene these helmets are made from? Because, as I mentioned earlier, polyethylene doesn't do well against steel-core rounds like M855 or M61. Current military ceramic plates can stop multiple hits of armor-piercing .30-06 at muzzle velocity. Even a .338 Lapua won't go through these plates unless you have the right kind of bullet. See the following thread:

    http://www.beyond556.com/bboard/show...nd-eye-surgery
    Takes years to get anything fielded. MOLLE was adopted in 1997, yet in 2003, units were deployed in Iraq still wearing LBE and PASGT vests.

    Even the old PASGT helmet has stopped AK rounds on occasion, one of my buddies was in Granada and saw it up close in the person of his company commander.

    Would I trusk a PSAGT to stop rifle rounds - no - but nothing much protects against being shot between the eyes.

    Interesting material from here:

    http://mountainguerrilla.blogspot.com/
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.

  8. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pericles View Post
    Takes years to get anything fielded. MOLLE was adopted in 1997, yet in 2003, units were deployed in Iraq still wearing LBE and PASGT vests.
    Yeah, but I worry about the future at least as much as the present. There will come a day when every SWAT pig is wearing a rifle-resistant helmet.

    Even the old PASGT helmet has stopped AK rounds on occasion, one of my buddies was in Granada and saw it up close in the person of his company commander.
    That's true -- current Kevlar helmets can stop AK rounds from time to time, especially if the range is long and/or it's not a direct hit. But the new helmets are designed to take one at muzzle velocity and with survivable blunt trauma to the head. They might even stop a lead-core 7.62 NATO, though I'm sure 7.62 AP (like M61 or M2) will punch right through.

    Solid brass bullets might penetrate the new helmets, too. They don't deform nearly as easily as ordinary FMJ. I read on one website about a test with a .458 SOCOM "solid brass tactical" round versus a sand-filled cinder block wall. The bullet punched through and remained basically undamaged except for some scratches. THAT is the kind of capability every freedom-lover should seek in his weapons.

    Would I trusk a PSAGT to stop rifle rounds - no - but nothing much protects against being shot between the eyes.
    Face armor is out there, though it doesn't seem to get used much. It adds weight, interferes with vision and aiming, etc.

    Interesting material from here:

    http://mountainguerrilla.blogspot.com/
    Thanks, I'll check it out.
    "Man lives freely only by his readiness to die." -- Mohandas K. Gandhi

    "Generally speaking, the way of the warrior is resolute acceptance of death." -- Miyamoto Musashi

  9. #38

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    The advances in ballistic protection is why there is the need for accurate weapons and marksmanship.

    Like in the armor force, we undergo rounds of the tank is dead! Long live the tank! The US is currently getting the active Army out of the heavy armor business in favor of light armor wheeled vehicles. That puts the force in to more of a COIN posture, but is also a disadvantage in fighting against professional soldiers (either other first rate armies or vets of first rate armies).

    There is always a tradeoff of armor vs. mobility, and the attacking force needs mobility. The defender is better served by armor protection.
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.

  10. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pericles View Post
    The advances in ballistic protection is why there is the need for accurate weapons and marksmanship.
    Agreed. Shooting around the bad guys' body armor is one way to deal with that problem. The right skills plus a combination of ammo and weapon that's capable of 1 MOA or better can make all the difference. Even if only the legs are unarmored, I sure wouldn't want to be hit multiple times in the leg by a surgical shooter. But this sort of careful marksmanship is really only practical at fairly long ranges and with unsuspecting targets.

    Still, for close range (e.g., a home invasion) there won't be time to aim carefully, so I want something that will either penetrate the armor or at least cause massive blunt trauma to a helmeted head. Or, if faces are unarmored, buckshot would do the trick.
    "Man lives freely only by his readiness to die." -- Mohandas K. Gandhi

    "Generally speaking, the way of the warrior is resolute acceptance of death." -- Miyamoto Musashi

  11. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuerrillaXXI View Post
    Agreed. Shooting around the bad guys' body armor is one way to deal with that problem. The right skills plus a combination of ammo and weapon that's capable of 1 MOA or better can make all the difference. Even if only the legs are unarmored, I sure wouldn't want to be hit multiple times in the leg by a surgical shooter. But this sort of careful marksmanship is really only practical at fairly long ranges and with unsuspecting targets.

    Still, for close range (e.g., a home invasion) there won't be time to aim carefully, so I want something that will either penetrate the armor or at least cause massive blunt trauma to a helmeted head. Or, if faces are unarmored, buckshot would do the trick.
    Hips - puts them on the ground fast, and they bleed out because there is not a good pressure point - so they have to be medevaced quickly, or its too bad.
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuerrillaXXI View Post
    Agreed. Shooting around the bad guys' body armor is one way to deal with that problem. The right skills plus a combination of ammo and weapon that's capable of 1 MOA or better can make all the difference. Even if only the legs are unarmored, I sure wouldn't want to be hit multiple times in the leg by a surgical shooter. But this sort of careful marksmanship is really only practical at fairly long ranges and with unsuspecting targets.

    Still, for close range (e.g., a home invasion) there won't be time to aim carefully, so I want something that will either penetrate the armor or at least cause massive blunt trauma to a helmeted head. Or, if faces are unarmored, buckshot would do the trick.
    12 ga slugs deliver a goodly hit. I am, however, an advocate of express rifles for armored individuals. For example, a 416 Rigby striking a human body is likely to be a kill almost no matter where it hits or how one may be armored. Delivering ca. 6000 lb-ft of energy to a human body is going to liquefy things well past survivability. If keeping military rounds is an interest for availability's sake, a 50 BMG is the way to go, delivering about 13,000 lf-ft of energy in a 600 to 900 grain package. No armor will protect you from that.
    --

    http://freedomisobvious.blogspot.com
    http://turnyourbackonthem.wordpress.com

    ignominia et contemptum tyrannis

    Habeo excelsum artem; afflixerim cum crudelitate illis qui laedas me

    Shelley's thinly veiled warning to tyrants:

    The monster saw my determination in my face and gnashed his teeth in the impotence of anger. "Shall each man," cried he, "find a wife for his bosom, and each beast have his mate, and I be alone? I had feelings of affection, and they were requited by detestation and scorn. Man! You may hate, but beware! Your hours will pass in dread and misery, and soon the bolt will fall which must ravish from you your happiness forever. Are you to be happy while I grovel in the intensity of my wretchedness? You can blast my other passions, but revenge remains--revenge, henceforth dearer than light or food! I may die, but first you, my tyrant and tormentor, shall curse the sun that gazes on your misery. Beware, for I am fearless and therefore powerful. I will watch with the wiliness of a snake, that I may sting with its venom. Man, you shall repent of the injuries you inflict.”

  13. #42

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    UN military is a joke and often get their ass destroyed against African army and even civilian military groups and rebel groups, there is no way they could make us hand over our guns, we know how to use it better than they do and we could take them out with very little deaths among us. UN is a weak terrorist group that can't do anything without other groups cooperation.

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfurrh View Post
    These threads make me laugh. They don't care if you have guns, because your guns are insignificant. They can kill you from a hundred miles away. They can wreck your home with a tank. They can poison your air and water. They're not worried about your 9mil or .30-06. They've spent the last 70 years making those as irrelevant as the bow & arrow.
    What ? , and here I was in Dec looking at a new bow , bummer , it was on sale and they were out when I got there and would not give me a rain check , I bought four piggy banks and a can of smoked almonds while there for $21.47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pericles View Post
    Hips - puts them on the ground fast, and they bleed out because there is not a good pressure point - so they have to be medevaced quickly, or its too bad.
    Giving away trade secrets I see

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    Let them keep thinking Ron Paul supporters are just a little army. Every military strategy manual in the world has examples of the bad things that happen to arrogant commanders of massive armies that underestimate the enemy. They all lose. We will win because the human heart, despite its detractors, is meant for truth and freedom.

  17. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Doubts,,
    Maybe that is what they are telling the pukes wearing them.

    The head is still going to absorb enough foot pounds of energy to liquify gray matter.
    BING!

    Penetration is not required to cause massive tissue damage.

    Think of a bullet resistant vest. You may survive the shot, but you'll be out of the fight.

    Helmets also cannot dissipate force as well as a vest covering several square feet of space.
    Last edited by Flugel89; 04-12-2012 at 12:00 PM.

  18. #47
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    I rarely wore a helmet , easy shape to pick up visually.

  19. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pericles View Post
    Hips - puts them on the ground fast, and they bleed out because there is not a good pressure point - so they have to be medevaced quickly, or its too bad.
    This is exactly what Mark Koernke from the Michigan militia recommends. Anyone who wants to listen to a true patriotic talk show host ought to listen to his Morning Intelligence Report on M-F 7am-9am Central time on the MicroEffect radio network.

    Here's the link;
    http://www.themicroeffect.com/

  20. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simple View Post
    Look at how police treat people who open carry today. It has already begun.

    The cop who removed his pistol is a fucking moron. He was pointing it at his knee when checking the magazine.

  21. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    12 ga slugs deliver a goodly hit. I am, however, an advocate of express rifles for armored individuals. For example, a 416 Rigby striking a human body is likely to be a kill almost no matter where it hits or how one may be armored. Delivering ca. 6000 lb-ft of energy to a human body is going to liquefy things well past survivability. If keeping military rounds is an interest for availability's sake, a 50 BMG is the way to go, delivering about 13,000 lf-ft of energy in a 600 to 900 grain package. No armor will protect you from that.
    Yes indeed, safari rifles are an excellent alternative to the .50 BMG for those who can't afford the latter or want a rifle that has lighter weight. Their only real drawback is that they don't have the .50's range. Cartridges like .416 Rigby are often loaded with solid brass or steel bullets so they penetrate deep without deflection in dangerous game like elephant and cape buffalo. I think the solid bullets in those cartridges will probably go through most armor available today, but even if they don't, having ribs or your sternum smashed into your chest cavity can't be good for your health. A direct hit on a helmet would be even less survivable, penetration or not. Even better, solid bullets can be turned into true AP bullets with minimal equipment. This patent shows one way to do it:

    http://www.google.com/patents?id=kxG...page&q&f=false

    Whether it's a lightweight .50 BMG (preferably with AP ammo), a safari rifle like .416 Rigby or .458 Lott, or even just a 12 gauge with a 600-grain Brenneke Black Magic Magnum, IMO everyone should have at least one heavy-hitting helmet-buster in his collection.
    "Man lives freely only by his readiness to die." -- Mohandas K. Gandhi

    "Generally speaking, the way of the warrior is resolute acceptance of death." -- Miyamoto Musashi

  22. #51

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    FUCK THEM.
    "I am, therefore I'll think" - Ayn Rand

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