U.N. to come for your guns?

[osan]

Agreed. Shooting around the bad guys' body armor is one way to deal with that problem. The right skills plus a combination of ammo and weapon that's capable of 1 MOA or better can make all the difference. Even if only the legs are unarmored, I sure wouldn't want to be hit multiple times in the leg by a surgical shooter. But this sort of careful marksmanship is really only practical at fairly long ranges and with unsuspecting targets.

Still, for close range (e.g., a home invasion) there won't be time to aim carefully, so I want something that will either penetrate the armor or at least cause massive blunt trauma to a helmeted head. Or, if faces are unarmored, buckshot would do the trick.

12 ga slugs deliver a goodly hit. I am, however, an advocate of express rifles for armored individuals. For example, a 416 Rigby striking a human body is likely to be a kill almost no matter where it hits or how one may be armored. Delivering ca. 6000 lb-ft of energy to a human body is going to liquefy things well past survivability. If keeping military rounds is an interest for availability's sake, a 50 BMG is the way to go, delivering about 13,000 lf-ft of energy in a 600 to 900 grain package. No armor will protect you from that.

[Individualism]

UN military is a joke and often get their ass destroyed against African army and even civilian military groups and rebel groups, there is no way they could make us hand over our guns, we know how to use it better than they do and we could take them out with very little deaths among us. UN is a weak terrorist group that can't do anything without other groups cooperation.

[oyarde]

These threads make me laugh. They don't care if you have guns, because your guns are insignificant. They can kill you from a hundred miles away. They can wreck your home with a tank. They can poison your air and water. They're not worried about your 9mil or .30-06. They've spent the last 70 years making those as irrelevant as the bow & arrow.

What ? , and here I was in Dec looking at a new bow , bummer , it was on sale and they were out when I got there and would not give me a rain check , I bought four piggy banks and a can of smoked almonds while there for $21.47

[oyarde]

Hips - puts them on the ground fast, and they bleed out because there is not a good pressure point - so they have to be medevaced quickly, or its too bad.

Giving away trade secrets I see

[azxd]

[Flugel89]

Doubts,,
Maybe that is what they are telling the pukes wearing them.

The head is still going to absorb enough foot pounds of energy to liquify gray matter.

BING!

Penetration is not required to cause massive tissue damage.

Think of a bullet resistant vest. You may survive the shot, but you'll be out of the fight.

Helmets also cannot dissipate force as well as a vest covering several square feet of space.

[oyarde]

I rarely wore a helmet , easy shape to pick up visually.

[PaulineDisciple]

Hips - puts them on the ground fast, and they bleed out because there is not a good pressure point - so they have to be medevaced quickly, or its too bad.

This is exactly what Mark Koernke from the Michigan militia recommends. Anyone who wants to listen to a true patriotic talk show host ought to listen to his Morning Intelligence Report on M-F 7am-9am Central time on the MicroEffect radio network.

Here's the link;
http://www.themicroeffect.com/

[Flugel89]

Look at how police treat people who open carry today. It has already begun.

The cop who removed his pistol is a fucking moron. He was pointing it at his knee when checking the magazine.

[GuerrillaXXI]

12 ga slugs deliver a goodly hit. I am, however, an advocate of express rifles for armored individuals. For example, a 416 Rigby striking a human body is likely to be a kill almost no matter where it hits or how one may be armored. Delivering ca. 6000 lb-ft of energy to a human body is going to liquefy things well past survivability. If keeping military rounds is an interest for availability's sake, a 50 BMG is the way to go, delivering about 13,000 lf-ft of energy in a 600 to 900 grain package. No armor will protect you from that.

Yes indeed, safari rifles are an excellent alternative to the .50 BMG for those who can't afford the latter or want a rifle that has lighter weight. Their only real drawback is that they don't have the .50's range. Cartridges like .416 Rigby are often loaded with solid brass or steel bullets so they penetrate deep without deflection in dangerous game like elephant and cape buffalo. I think the solid bullets in those cartridges will probably go through most armor available today, but even if they don't, having ribs or your sternum smashed into your chest cavity can't be good for your health. A direct hit on a helmet would be even less survivable, penetration or not. Even better, solid bullets can be turned into true AP bullets with minimal equipment. This patent shows one way to do it:

http://www.google.com/patents?id=kxG...page&q&f=false

Whether it's a lightweight .50 BMG (preferably with AP ammo), a safari rifle like .416 Rigby or .458 Lott, or even just a 12 gauge with a 600-grain Brenneke Black Magic Magnum, IMO everyone should have at least one heavy-hitting helmet-buster in his collection.