U.N. to come for your guns?

[Origanalist]

"With the shooting death of Trayvon Martin by a neighborhood watch volunteer who was legally carrying a 9-millimeter handgun, the familiar wail has arisen from our cultural and media elite:

America has too many guns!

“Open carry” and “concealed carry” laws should be repealed.

Florida’s “Stand-your-ground” law, replicated in two dozen states, threatens to turn America into the Tombstone of Doc Holiday and Wyatt Earp. This is insane!

The United Nations agrees. This year, the world body takes up the global control of firearms, including small arms in the hands of citizens.

According to Sen. Rand Paul, the U.N. “Small Arms Treaty” will almost surely mandate tougher licensing requirements to own a gun, require the confiscation and destruction of unauthorized civilian firearms, call for a ban on the trade, sale and private ownership of semi-automatic weapons, and create an international gun registry."

Pat Buchanan says good luck with that...........I agree.


http://www.theamericanconservative.c...self-for-what/

[Pericles]

The issue is that the UN usually uses 3rd world armies to do their stuff, and they have crappy weapons as a rule, so you don't get much from getting it on with them.

[WilliamC]

There's a reason I like living in the South, and it's 'cause no matter what disagreements I might have with folks on a lot of issues this isn't one of them.

[xFiFtyOnE]

There's a reason I like living in the South, and it's 'cause no matter what disagreements I might have with folks on a lot of issues this isn't one of them.

Agree. Repub or Dem, it doesn't matter. Everyone loves guns. :P

[GuerrillaXXI]

I don't see why the UN would have to get involved. Most of the American pigs and military would be perfectly happy to attempt gun confiscation themselves if ordered to do so. History shows us plenty of examples of US troops turning their weapons on their fellow Americans, from the Bonus Army and the Ludlow Massacre right up to the Kent State shootings and, most recently, the gun confiscations that occurred after Hurricane Katrina.

A lot of people instinctively reject the possibility of such a scenario because (1) it clashes with their lifelong conditioning via propaganda that portrays the US military as our troops who serve us (as opposed to the government) and "defend our freedoms"; and (2) wishful thinking leads them to the optimistic belief that the US military will be on their side if UN troops invade, thus making the fight easier. But there's no reason to believe that any future civil conflict(s) in America will be any different from past conflicts with respect to the military following orders and serving their masters in government.

[JK/SEA]

Well, when you start seeing troop carriers going into neighborhoods with the troops in blue helmets....you might have to cancel that tupperware party you had scheduled.

[azxd]

Well, when you start seeing troop carriers going into neighborhoods with the troops in blue helmets....you might have to cancel that tupperware party you had scheduled.

If the angle is right, blue helmets flip just like tupperware ... It requires a glancing blow, and not a straight shot.

And to those who will compalin that I am promoting violence ... Call it sarcasm, and re-read the thread, before you sick one of the MOD's on me ... Again !!!

[pcosmar]

No fan of the UN. At All.

[WilliamC]

In case of UN occupation look to our real leaders.

[GuerrillaXXI]

RE: The target with the blue UN helmet on it

Be aware that helmets have recently been developed that can stop some FMJ rifle rounds (at least 7.62x39, and possibly 7.62x51). These helmets are made of polyethylene rather than Kevlar or other such fibers.

It's worth noting that steel core rifle bullets can penetrate current polyethylene armor, at least if the velocity is high enough. M855 (i.e., 5.56 NATO with SS109 bullets) generally penetrates polyethylene armor at close range, while 7.62 NATO will not (because the bullets have lead cores). Rifle rounds with solid brass pointed bullets might also get through. A 12 gauge slug won't penetrate, but most likely it won't matter because the effect will be like getting whacked in the head with a baseball bat without a helmet.

[pcosmar]

RE: The target with the blue UN helmet on it

Be aware that helmets have recently been developed that can stop some FMJ rifle rounds (at least 7.62x39, and possibly 7.62x51). These helmets are made of polyethylene rather than Kevlar or other such fibers.

It's worth noting that steel core rifle bullets can penetrate current polyethylene armor, at least if the velocity is high enough. M855 (i.e., 5.56 NATO with SS109 bullets) generally penetrates polyethylene armor at close range, while 7.62 NATO will not (because the bullets have lead cores). Rifle rounds with solid brass pointed bullets might also get through. A 12 gauge slug won't penetrate, but most likely it won't matter because the effect will be like getting whacked in the head with a baseball bat without a helmet.

Doubts,,
Maybe that is what they are telling the pukes wearing them.

The head is still going to absorb enough foot pounds of energy to liquify gray matter.

[Origanalist]

Doubts,,
Maybe that is what they are telling the pukes wearing them.

The head is still going to absorb enough foot pounds of energy to liquify gray matter.

Pretty much. If you live you probably wouldn't know it.

[Flugel89]

Doubts,,
Maybe that is what they are telling the pukes wearing them.

The head is still going to absorb enough foot pounds of energy to liquify gray matter.

BING!

Penetration is not required to cause massive tissue damage.

Think of a bullet resistant vest. You may survive the shot, but you'll be out of the fight.

Helmets also cannot dissipate force as well as a vest covering several square feet of space.

[Pericles]

RE: The target with the blue UN helmet on it

Be aware that helmets have recently been developed that can stop some FMJ rifle rounds (at least 7.62x39, and possibly 7.62x51). These helmets are made of polyethylene rather than Kevlar or other such fibers.

It's worth noting that steel core rifle bullets can penetrate current polyethylene armor, at least if the velocity is high enough. M855 (i.e., 5.56 NATO with SS109 bullets) generally penetrates polyethylene armor at close range, while 7.62 NATO will not (because the bullets have lead cores). Rifle rounds with solid brass pointed bullets might also get through. A 12 gauge slug won't penetrate, but most likely it won't matter because the effect will be like getting whacked in the head with a baseball bat without a helmet.

If that were true, the military would be using that material to replace SAPI plates in body armor with a thinner, lighter material - or the helmets made from that material are over an inch thick.

Which is it?

[GuerrillaXXI]

If that were true, the military would be using that material to replace SAPI plates in body armor with a thinner, lighter material - or the helmets made from that material are over an inch thick.

Which is it?

Unfortunately, it's very true. The helmet exists and is known as the Enhanced Combat Helmet (ECH). News of the progress and setbacks in its development have been in the news for a few years now:

http://www.military.com/news/article...fle-shots.html

It's actually a little lighter than the Kevlar helmets, in spite of its much greater bullet-stopping ability.

Why don't they replace the SAPI plates with the polyethylene these helmets are made from? Because, as I mentioned earlier, polyethylene doesn't do well against steel-core rounds like M855 or M61. Current military ceramic plates can stop multiple hits of armor-piercing .30-06 at muzzle velocity. Even a .338 Lapua won't go through these plates unless you have the right kind of bullet. See the following thread:

http://www.beyond556.com/bboard/show...nd-eye-surgery

[Pericles]

Unfortunately, it's very true. The helmet exists and is known as the Enhanced Combat Helmet (ECH). News of the progress and setbacks in its development have been in the news for a few years now:

http://www.military.com/news/article...fle-shots.html

It's actually a little lighter than the Kevlar helmets, in spite of its much greater bullet-stopping ability.

Why don't they replace the SAPI plates with the polyethylene these helmets are made from? Because, as I mentioned earlier, polyethylene doesn't do well against steel-core rounds like M855 or M61. Current military ceramic plates can stop multiple hits of armor-piercing .30-06 at muzzle velocity. Even a .338 Lapua won't go through these plates unless you have the right kind of bullet. See the following thread:

http://www.beyond556.com/bboard/show...nd-eye-surgery

Takes years to get anything fielded. MOLLE was adopted in 1997, yet in 2003, units were deployed in Iraq still wearing LBE and PASGT vests.

Even the old PASGT helmet has stopped AK rounds on occasion, one of my buddies was in Granada and saw it up close in the person of his company commander.

Would I trusk a PSAGT to stop rifle rounds - no - but nothing much protects against being shot between the eyes.

Interesting material from here:

http://mountainguerrilla.blogspot.com/

[GuerrillaXXI]

Takes years to get anything fielded. MOLLE was adopted in 1997, yet in 2003, units were deployed in Iraq still wearing LBE and PASGT vests.

Yeah, but I worry about the future at least as much as the present. There will come a day when every SWAT pig is wearing a rifle-resistant helmet.

Even the old PASGT helmet has stopped AK rounds on occasion, one of my buddies was in Granada and saw it up close in the person of his company commander.

That's true -- current Kevlar helmets can stop AK rounds from time to time, especially if the range is long and/or it's not a direct hit. But the new helmets are designed to take one at muzzle velocity and with survivable blunt trauma to the head. They might even stop a lead-core 7.62 NATO, though I'm sure 7.62 AP (like M61 or M2) will punch right through.

Solid brass bullets might penetrate the new helmets, too. They don't deform nearly as easily as ordinary FMJ. I read on one website about a test with a .458 SOCOM "solid brass tactical" round versus a sand-filled cinder block wall. The bullet punched through and remained basically undamaged except for some scratches. THAT is the kind of capability every freedom-lover should seek in his weapons.

Would I trusk a PSAGT to stop rifle rounds - no - but nothing much protects against being shot between the eyes.

Face armor is out there, though it doesn't seem to get used much. It adds weight, interferes with vision and aiming, etc.

Interesting material from here:

http://mountainguerrilla.blogspot.com/

Thanks, I'll check it out.

[tfurrh]

These threads make me laugh. They don't care if you have guns, because your guns are insignificant. They can kill you from a hundred miles away. They can wreck your home with a tank. They can poison your air and water. They're not worried about your 9mil or .30-06. They've spent the last 70 years making those as irrelevant as the bow & arrow.

[Origanalist]

These threads make me laugh. They don't care if you have guns, because your guns are insignificant. They can kill you from a hundred miles away. They can wreck your home with a tank. They can poison your air and water. They're not worried about your 9mil or .30-06. They've spent the last 70 years making those as irrelevant as the bow & arrow.

Glad I could keep you amused.

[Pericles]

These threads make me laugh. They don't care if you have guns, because your guns are insignificant. They can kill you from a hundred miles away. They can wreck your home with a tank. They can poison your air and water. They're not worried about your 9mil or .30-06. They've spent the last 70 years making those as irrelevant as the bow & arrow.

Kind of assumes that I do nothing but sit on my ass, doesn't it?

[pcosmar]

These threads make me laugh. They don't care if you have guns, because your guns are insignificant. They can kill you from a hundred miles away. They can wreck your home with a tank. They can poison your air and water. They're not worried about your 9mil or .30-06. They've spent the last 70 years making those as irrelevant as the bow & arrow.

Tell that to the Patriots in Afghanistan..

Hell,, tell that to the invading military that have all those advancements and still can't deal with a guerrilla war.

[tfurrh]

Tell that to the Patriots in Afghanistan..

Hell,, tell that to the invading military that have all those advancements and still can't deal with a guerrilla war.

When we get to organized resistance let me know...That'll be a different story. I don't see us ever doing that, because the enemy isn't foreign, and WE LOVE OUR BIG BROTHER. Even us RP folks, faced with the biggest joke of an election, tell each other to go put on our tin foil hats for even mentioning it. We point our fingers in the air, scoff at everything, and come up with nothing. That's why our guns don't matter.

[Czolgosz]

When we get to organized resistance let me know...That'll be a different story. I don't see us ever doing that, because the enemy isn't foreign, and WE LOVE OUR BIG BROTHER. Even us RP folks, faced with the biggest joke of an election, tell each other to go put on our tin foil hats for even mentioning it. We point our fingers in the air, scoff at everything, and come up with nothing. That's why our guns don't matter.

Which group of people are dedicated to preserving a Constitutional way of life and defending one another's rights by any means necessary?

[azxd]

When we get to organized resistance let me know...That'll be a different story. I don't see us ever doing that, because the enemy isn't foreign, and WE LOVE OUR BIG BROTHER. Even us RP folks, faced with the biggest joke of an election, tell each other to go put on our tin foil hats for even mentioning it. We point our fingers in the air, scoff at everything, and come up with nothing. That's why our guns don't matter.

Wrong approach ... Unorganized/leaderless resistance is much more effective.

The snake has no head, and is very hard to kill.

I do not condone or have affiliation with the man or his mentality, but his idea is sound - http://www.louisbeam.com/leaderless.htm

[GuerrillaXXI]

These threads make me laugh. They don't care if you have guns, because your guns are insignificant. They can kill you from a hundred miles away. They can wreck your home with a tank. They can poison your air and water. They're not worried about your 9mil or .30-06. They've spent the last 70 years making those as irrelevant as the bow & arrow.

These defeatist comments reveal a lack of understanding of asymmetric warfare, especially in the context of a civil uprising.

"They," along with their relatives and friends, generally live in the same communities as the rest of us, since we all share the same country. If they poisoned our air and water, they'd be poisoning their own. If they shelled our cities, they'd be shelling their own. If they sent tanks to destroy our houses, we could burn down their houses.

pcosmar rightly mentioned Afghanistan as a counterpoint to what you said. There are several reasons why the Taliban (and the Iraqis before the US paid them off) remain undefeated by US and NATO forces in spite of the enormous technological and numerical advantages of the latter. You should look into these. After ten years and astronomical sums of money spent, how much has the US progressed in dominating Afghanistan, a country dwarfed in size by the US?

When we get to organized resistance let me know...That'll be a different story. I don't see us ever doing that, because the enemy isn't foreign, and WE LOVE OUR BIG BROTHER. Even us RP folks, faced with the biggest joke of an election, tell each other to go put on our tin foil hats for even mentioning it. We point our fingers in the air, scoff at everything, and come up with nothing. That's why our guns don't matter.

You make a valid point here. Americans don't have the will to resist tyranny even nonviolently -- at least not at present. But as the police state grows and becomes more abusive, I suspect we'll start seeing more Carl Dregas and Christopher Monforts out there. Not everyone can or will tolerate life with a boot on his neck.

[JK/SEA]

These threads make me laugh. They don't care if you have guns, because your guns are insignificant. They can kill you from a hundred miles away. They can wreck your home with a tank. They can poison your air and water. They're not worried about your 9mil or .30-06. They've spent the last 70 years making those as irrelevant as the bow & arrow.

on your feet, or on your knees....

[azxd]

These threads make me laugh. They don't care if you have guns, because your guns are insignificant. They can kill you from a hundred miles away. They can wreck your home with a tank. They can poison your air and water. They're not worried about your 9mil or .30-06. They've spent the last 70 years making those as irrelevant as the bow & arrow.

Tell that to the people who live on dirt floors in the middle East ... They've been giving superior firepower a run for their money, for decades.

[osan]

These threads make me laugh. They don't care if you have guns, because your guns are insignificant. They can kill you from a hundred miles away. They can wreck your home with a tank. They can poison your air and water. They're not worried about your 9mil or .30-06. They've spent the last 70 years making those as irrelevant as the bow & arrow.

Maybe you are right, maybe not. It is irrelevant. We each of us may one day be called to make a choice. The choice we make is all that matters. Outcomes are irrelevant. We are all destined for the worms; all that really matters is how we spend the time we are given. Choose as you please and I will do the same. If you feel defeated, then you are. If you refuse defeat to the bitter end, then you can never be conquered; all "they" can do is kill you or put you into a cage. That is nothing of victory. It is, in fact, the worst sort of defeat imaginable to my way of seeing things.

The choices are up to each of us. I may to be targeted one day, perhaps even killed - or perhaps I will simply die of old age and boredom in the fullness of time. None of that concerns me much these days. I will continue to speak my peace, come what may.

[oyarde]

These threads make me laugh. They don't care if you have guns, because your guns are insignificant. They can kill you from a hundred miles away. They can wreck your home with a tank. They can poison your air and water. They're not worried about your 9mil or .30-06. They've spent the last 70 years making those as irrelevant as the bow & arrow.

What ? , and here I was in Dec looking at a new bow , bummer , it was on sale and they were out when I got there and would not give me a rain check , I bought four piggy banks and a can of smoked almonds while there for $21.47

[Simple]

Look at how police treat people who open carry today. It has already begun.