Are taxes involuntary servitude?

[Douglass Bartley]

From FreedomIsAbsolute:

Judge Bartley, the current 13th amendment states:
Submitted by FreedomIsAbsolute on Mon, 04/02/2012 – 20:47. Permalink

“Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude [compulsory service], except as punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the united States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.” From acknowledging this amendment, wouldn’t it be known that taxation = involuntary servitude [compulsory service]? They take 1/3 out of our pay without letting us deny them the theft. If someone took the IRS to court and used the 13th amendment as unconstitutional grounds, do you think it would hold up? And do you think this is a valid point?
Are taxes involuntary servitude?

Dear FreedomIsAbsolute:

I like the way you are thinking.

To your question, “If someone took the IRS to court and used the 13th amendment as unconstitutional grounds, do you think it would hold up?” Answer, it should, but it won’t, for the courts are too far gone. You might even incur a frivolous claim penalty of up to $25,000!

To your question, “And do you think this is a valid point?” Yes at least to the extent that the tax revenues are used for spending not authorized in the Constitution, which amounts to about 70% of the federal budget, as we argued in the case I cited in the article.

Also involuntary servitude rears its ugly head in employer tax withholding cases. Please see http://douglassbartley.wordpress.com...-employ…
Submitted by Judge Bartley on Mon, 04/02/2012 – 21:15. Permalink

[oyarde]

At current scale , property tax , etc, absolutely , yes , without question .

[Czolgosz]

Why do we almost never hear of real Constitutional challenges to all these absurd laws? Is it apathy? Fear? Or possibly acknowledgement that you can't resist tyranny that doesn't recognize this foundation?

[otherone]

I believe the real challenge will come about when the link between fiat currency and taxation is exploited. This is why the State requires employers to pay a "minimum wage." If a go to my neighbor, and he pays me 50 chickens for painting his house, then technically taxes have to be paid on this "income". The problem is that the State has no authority to draw a percentage of fiat currency from anything other than fiat currency...it's a closed system. Competing currency will undermine the entire revenue generating system. Am I far off on this?

[Seraphim]

No, you are dead on.

Legal tender laws.

I believe the real challenge will come about when the link between fiat currency and taxation is exploited. This is why the State requires employers to pay a "minimum wage." If a go to my neighbor, and he pays me 50 chickens for painting his house, then technically taxes have to be paid on this "income". The problem is that the State has no authority to draw a percentage of fiat currency from anything other than fiat currency...it's a closed system. Competing currency will undermine the entire revenue generating system. Am I far off on this?

[whippoorwill]

Tax is theft.

[rockerrockstar]

I read a website that claimed that the 16th Amendment was never ratified correctly. I am sure no one would be able to get the government to admit it. Can you imagine how hard it would be to get this amendment to pass. It is no surprise that this amendment was passed by cheating.

here is the link
http://www.givemeliberty.org/feature...otratified.htm

I looked at Wikipedia and of course the Fed Gov denies any claim that the 16th Amendment was not ratified. They claim it was fraud to claim that it was not ratified. So I guess don't try to use this as a defense against paying your taxes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Law_that_Never_Was

Here is another interesting page. Tax protesters arguments. See below link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_pro...onal_arguments

[seraphson]

Why year, after year, after year, after year do I have to pay taxes on my truck? I already bought the damn thing and other states tax vehicles once as well.
What also must you pay tax year after year for the dirt you maintain around your house?

[rockerrockstar]

Why do we almost never hear of real Constitutional challenges to all these absurd laws? Is it apathy? Fear? Or possibly acknowledgement that you can't resist tyranny that doesn't recognize this foundation?

There has been but the courts thow out those cases. They will not listen to the arguments they call these cases frivolous. Courts may even charge you for bring up a frivolous case.

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/...139373,00.html

[Czolgosz]

I believe the real challenge will come about when the link between fiat currency and taxation is exploited. This is why the State requires employers to pay a "minimum wage." If a go to my neighbor, and he pays me 50 chickens for painting his house, then technically taxes have to be paid on this "income". The problem is that the State has no authority to draw a percentage of fiat currency from anything other than fiat currency...it's a closed system. Competing currency will undermine the entire revenue generating system. Am I far off on this?

I think you're right on, however I disagree about the challenge. Humans don't really care, as evidenced by history, and the people who like the power involved with running tyrannical government will simply rewire FRN's to be backed by another fiat currency or some other mechanism with which you'll still have little control and the majority of Humans around you will accept.