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Thread: Witness Says Trayvon Martin Attacked George Zimmerman

  1. #1

    Default Witness Says Trayvon Martin Attacked George Zimmerman

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/repo...rge-zimmerman/

    “The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: ‘help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911,” he said.
    Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.
    The witness only wanted to be identified as “John,” and didn’t not want to be shown on camera.
    His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman’s claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.
    “When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point,” John said.
    Zatch



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  3. #2

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    Well I gotta tell you if you where following me around well I walked around a neighborhood I might attack you to. Being hunted will trigger a flight or fight response. The big question is how zimmerman got out of the vechical to be attacked in the first place. The whole thing stinks of a couple people who "thought" they where defending themselves because of the actions of an idiot.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfshadow View Post
    Well I gotta tell you if you where following me around well I walked around a neighborhood I might attack you to.
    And you might then get yourself shot as well.

    Being hunted will trigger a flight or fight response.
    It is far from concluded whether the boy was being "hunted", as you put it.

    The big question is how zimmerman got out of the vechical to be attacked in the first place.
    One usually opens the door and then steps out, though I have seen people crawl out a window on an occasion or two.

    The whole thing stinks of a couple people who "thought" they where defending themselves because of the actions of an idiot.

    And how, precisely, do you know this? Have you read any eyewitness accounts of what happened from the beginning?

    I would agree, however, that something appears not to be adding up. The boy is being touted as this great angel, but if he in fact attacked Zimmerman, then someone in all of this is perhaps lying because good kids do not usually act so out of character. That leads me to wonder whether Zimmerman was the bad guy or if the boy was not quite so angelic as is being depicted.

    This is likely to go to trial, I would imagine, given the tensions that are building. Even if Zimmerman is clean on this I see him standing trial because of the politics.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

  5. #4

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    I get the feeling that this ends one of two ways....

    Zimmerman in prison
    or
    riots ala Rodney King style

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfshadow View Post
    Well I gotta tell you if you where following me around well I walked around a neighborhood I might attack you to. Being hunted will trigger a flight or fight response. The big question is how zimmerman got out of the vechical to be attacked in the first place. The whole thing stinks of a couple people who "thought" they where defending themselves because of the actions of an idiot.
    as a person who carries a gun and lives in Orlando, i would hope that you dont ever suspect me of following you.

    and, last time i checked, following someone in public isnt illegal. attacking someone, is.

    as for this case specifically, im not going to comment further because the whole one-news-agency-says-one-thing-and-another-news-agency-says-the-opposite is a total crap shoot.
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  7. #6

  8. #7

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    One witness after the fact that contradicts the 911 calls, and the phone calls is not going to help.

    Zimmerman shot an unarmed man, after instigating a confrontation.

    The kid did not pull him out of his vehicle. If he had stayed in his vehicle there would have been NO fight.

    The kid had a right to be there, and Zimmerman had NO Right to assault him.
    The witness only saw the end of it,,

    The police are protecting a cop wannabe. Why they are is a whole nother question.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    One witness after the fact that contradicts the 911 calls, and the phone calls is not going to help.

    Zimmerman shot an unarmed man, after instigating a confrontation.

    The kid did not pull him out of his vehicle. If he had stayed in his vehicle there would have been NO fight.

    The kid had a right to be there, and Zimmerman had NO Right to assault him.
    The witness only saw the end of it,,

    The police are protecting a cop wannabe. Why they are is a whole nother question.
    And how in the hell do you know Zimmerman assaulted him???

  10. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahApocalypse View Post
    I get the feeling that this ends one of two ways....

    Zimmerman in prison
    or
    riots ala Rodney King style

    Rodney King race riots were black-white race issue, his father is claiming that George Zimmerman himself is a minority:


    Friday, March 23, 2012

    Florida shooter George Zimmerman not easily pigeonholed
    By Manuel Roig-Franzia, Tom Jackman and Darryl Fears
    The Washington Post

    The shooter was once a Catholic altar boy, with a surname that could have been Jewish.

    His father is white, neighbors say. His mother is Latina. And his family is eager to point out that some of his relatives are black.

    There may be no box to check for George Zimmerman, 28, no tidy way to categorize, define and sort the man whose pull of a trigger on a Sanford, Fla., street is forcing America to once again confront its fraught relationship with race and identity. The slain victim, we know, was named Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black teenager in a hoodie.

    The images of Zimmerman — not just his face, but the words used to describe him — can confound and confuse.

    Why are they calling him white, wondered Paul Ebert, the Prince William County commonwealth's attorney who knew Zimmerman's mother, Gladys, from her days as an interpreter at the county courthouse. Zimmerman's mother, Ebert knew, was Peruvian, and he thought of her as Hispanic.

    Emphasizing diversity

    Zimmerman's father has sought to emphasize his family's diversity in hopes of saving his son from condemnation as a racist.

    While images of protests from across the country skitter past on television screens, the elder Zimmerman has tried to do what others have been doing, in various ways, for days: define his son. George is "a Spanish-speaking minority," the father wrote in a letter delivered to The Orlando Sentinel. "He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever." George, the father insisted, was more like the boy he killed than people thought. George was a minority — the other — too.
    The argument the father is making feels hollow and self-serving to Michaela Angela Davis, an African-American writer and activist who lives in New York. In her eyes, George Zimmerman's Hispanic roots don't give him cover.

    "You being a minority doesn't make you immune to racist beliefs," she said in an interview Thursday. Davis sees a pervasive cultural imprint, reinforced by media and entertainment imagery: the black man as a symbol of "violence, fear and deviant behavior." A young man could be susceptible to the influence of that image whether his "mother is from Peru or Norway."
    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/text/2017819414.html
    Last edited by moderate libertarian; 03-25-2012 at 08:59 AM.

  11. #10

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    That does not fit the narrative. Ignore this eye-witness!
    "Your mother's dead, before long I'll be dead, and you...and your brother and your sister and all of her children, all of us dead, all of us..rotting in the ground. It's the family name that lives on. It's all that lives on. Not your personal glory, not your honor, but family." - Tywin Lannister


  12. #11

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    What is with all the concern that he was in a hoodie??? Must admit I have not payed close attention to this story but it is bubbling in daily news reports now and all I keep hearing is the emphasis on his hoodie. Is this to add to the big bad image to give the one guy more cred in being afraid because of what the boy was wearing?
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  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by William R View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    One witness after the fact that contradicts the 911 calls, and the phone calls is not going to help.

    Zimmerman shot an unarmed man, after instigating a confrontation.

    The kid did not pull him out of his vehicle. If he had stayed in his vehicle there would have been NO fight.

    The kid had a right to be there, and Zimmerman had NO Right to assault him.
    The witness only saw the end of it,,

    The police are protecting a cop wannabe. Why they are is a whole nother question.
    And how in the hell do you know Zimmerman assaulted him???
    Because the guy is a biased cop hater who always sides against the law.
    Let them keep thinking Ron Paul supporters are just a little army. Every military strategy manual in the world has examples of the bad things that happen to arrogant commanders of massive armies that underestimate the enemy. They all lose. We will win because the human heart, despite its detractors, is meant for truth and freedom.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by William R View Post
    And how in the hell do you know Zimmerman assaulted him???
    Reports of the 911 call by Zimmerman.
    He called in a "suspicious person" (questionable in itself)
    He was in his vehicle and was told NOT TO FOLLOW.
    He was following (was on the phone, and reported being followed)

    Zimmerman got out of the vehicle and confronted him (also heard on phone).
    If the Cop wannabe had stayed in his own vehicle (and minded his own business) there would have been NO incident
    Last edited by pcosmar; 03-25-2012 at 09:41 AM.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  15. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Reports of the 911 call by Zimmerman.
    He called in a "suspicious person" (questionable in itself)
    He was in his vehicle and was told NOT TO FOLLOW.
    He was following (was on the phone, and reported being followed)

    Zimmerman got out of the vehicle and confronted him (also heard on phone).
    If the Cop wannabe had stayed in his own vehicle 9and minded his own business) there would have been NO incident
    This in itself is a criminal offence. It is called 'stalking.'

    Stalking is a term commonly used to refer to unwanted and obsessive attention by an individual or group to another person. Stalking behaviors are related to harassment and intimidation and may include following the victim in person and/or monitoring them. The word stalking is used, with some differing meanings, in psychology and psychiatry and also in some legal jurisdictions as a term for a criminal offense.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by azxd View Post
    Because the guy is a biased cop hater who always sides against the law.
    And which law would that be? Zimmerman or whatever wasn't a cop. One man is dead and the only one with a weapon has walked free.

  17. #16

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    Methinks azxd is a cop....
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    What is the difference between a hero and a cop? A hero will not hesitate to risk his life to protect your safety, a cop will not hesitate to risk your life to protect his safety.
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    Authoritarian leftists. Political prisoners. Gulags. Where are we again?

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toureg89 View Post
    and, last time i checked, following someone in public isnt illegal. attacking someone, is.
    I believe the "Stand Your Ground" law gives a person the right to attack first if he has a reasonable belief that there is imminent danger to himself or another person.

    Therefore. my position is that Trayvon indeed had the right to attack Zimmerman, since Zimmerman was the aggressor through the entire episode, beginning when he disregarded the advice of the 911 operator not to follow the kid. Zimmerman provokeded the confrontation.

    If the DA had decided to press charges and at least take it to a Grand Jury, this wouldn't be the national "crisis" it is. Instead, the odds of Zimmerman actually getting a fair trial are nil.
    Last edited by angelatc; 03-25-2012 at 10:01 AM.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by azxd View Post
    Because the guy is a biased cop hater who always sides against the law.
    So am I. That still doesn't mean other people can kill me.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    I believe the "Stand Your Ground" law gives a person the right to attack first if he has a reasonable belief that there is imminent danger to himself or another person.

    Therefore. my position is that Trayvon indeed had the right to attack Zimmerman, since Zimmerman was the aggressor through the entire episode, beginning when he disregarded the advice of the 911 operator not to follow the kid. Zimmerman provokeded the confrontation.

    If the DA had decided to press charges and at least take it to a Grand Jury, this wouldn't be the national "crisis" it is. Instead, the odds of Zimmerman actually getting a fair trial are nil.
    Correct. The law does not allow you to actively pursue and confront someone, and in that case, the law protects who you are pursuing-not you, the pursuer..
    Last edited by coastie; 03-25-2012 at 10:06 AM.
    EX-USCG


    What is the difference between a hero and a cop? A hero will not hesitate to risk his life to protect your safety, a cop will not hesitate to risk your life to protect his safety.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Authoritarian leftists. Political prisoners. Gulags. Where are we again?

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toureg89 View Post
    and, last time i checked, following someone in public isnt illegal. attacking someone, is.
    There's a difference between what's illegal and what's threatening.

    If you think someone's about to attack you, yes, in your head part of you is thinking about the legal ramifications and your options.

    But if your instinct is saying "I'm about to be attacked and running away isn't feasible," sometimes attacking first is a reasonable action even though it might not be legal. The determination of whether the other person really is about to attack you is a judgement call the potential victim is in a unique position to make.

    If someone follows you into a dark alley, you may not have legal ground to pre-emptively attack but some might say you'd be foolish to wait until your likely assailant pulls out a weapon to start reacting.

    In your minds eye, imagine the Travyon-Zimmerman encounter. Zimmerman is following Travyon, and then gets out of his car. Now we don't know exactly what that looked like, what the expression on Zimmerman's face was, the speed with which he was walking, etc. But maybe he had a clear look of menace on his face, maybe the nonverbal communication was obvious enough to Travyon that he knew he was about to get into a physical encounter. Maybe he saw Zimmerman had a gun and (logically) concluded he had better of odds of running up and trying to pin Zimmerman down rather than running away and getting shot in the back.

    I'm not saying the law should necessarily cater to these kinds of scenarios because obviously it's dangerous to give people legal cover for pre-emptively attacking others, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be understanding of the fact that there ARE scenarios where attacking first is still self-defense even if the law can't label it self-defense.

    So, if the scenario played out as I described above, and Travyon was not killed, he would have to stand trial for physical assault. And in that trial, he'd have to try to make the case that his action was a reasonable self-defense response to the situation and hope the jury/judge are sympathetic.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by moderate libertarian View Post
    Rodney King race riots were black-white race issue, his father is claiming that George Zimmerman himself is a minority:

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/text/2017819414.html
    Racial propaganda in politics works best in black and white. What could be more simple?
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  23. #22

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    Why the hell would Trayvon attack Zimmerman?

    Zimmerman was in a car, with a gun, and was following Trayvon who was holding skittles.

    So the eyewitness is saying that Trayvon after being stalked and chased by Zimmerman turned around and stood up for himself? Duh. What else is he supposed to do?

    If I start a fight with you and then you fight back I can shoot you and say it was self defense? Really? Oh Glenn Beck...
    Ron Paul: "For those who have asked, I freely confess that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, and that I seek His guidance in all that I do."

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by coastie View Post
    Methinks azxd is a cop....
    Xing.ding. or an informant
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
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  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toureg89 View Post
    as a person who carries a gun and lives in Orlando, i would hope that you dont ever suspect me of following you.

    and, last time i checked, following someone in public isnt illegal. attacking someone, is.

    as for this case specifically, im not going to comment further because the whole one-news-agency-says-one-thing-and-another-news-agency-says-the-opposite is a total crap shoot.
    As a person who lives in Orlando and carries a gun don't follow me. It's quite simple. Don't follow someone because you don't know how they will react.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    And you might then get yourself shot as well.



    It is far from concluded whether the boy was being "hunted", as you put it.



    One usually opens the door and then steps out, though I have seen people crawl out a window on an occasion or two.




    And how, precisely, do you know this? Have you read any eyewitness accounts of what happened from the beginning?

    I would agree, however, that something appears not to be adding up. The boy is being touted as this great angel, but if he in fact attacked Zimmerman, then someone in all of this is perhaps lying because good kids do not usually act so out of character. That leads me to wonder whether Zimmerman was the bad guy or if the boy was not quite so angelic as is being depicted.

    This is likely to go to trial, I would imagine, given the tensions that are building. Even if Zimmerman is clean on this I see him standing trial because of the politics.
    I have Zimmerman's and the 911 account that he was following the kid around in a car. So a stranger in a car is following you. How are you going to react? Why did he get out of the car? Thats the whole key to this thing. Why did he get out. Its really not hard to see a teenage kid attacking someone that they think is stalking them.

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfshadow View Post
    I have Zimmerman's and the 911 account that he was following the kid around in a car. So a stranger in a car is following you. How are you going to react? Why did he get out of the car? Thats the whole key to this thing. Why did he get out. Its really not hard to see a teenage kid attacking someone that they think is stalking them.
    What does that have to do with anything though? Following someone on a public street is not a crime. Nor is getting out of the car to ask them a question. Since Zimmerman was not doing anything unlawful, he has a right under Florida law to defend himself against attack. Period. We are not analyzing whether Martin should be charged with assault and battery or not. The only questions is whether Zimmerman committed a crime in killing Martin, and thus far, there is simply no evidence to suggest this was a criminal shooting.

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfshadow View Post
    Well I gotta tell you if you where following me around well I walked around a neighborhood I might attack you to. .
    This.
    Best of luck in life.

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulMall View Post
    What does that have to do with anything though? Following someone on a public street is not a crime. Nor is getting out of the car to ask them a question. Since Zimmerman was not doing anything unlawful, he has a right under Florida law to defend himself against attack. Period. We are not analyzing whether Martin should be charged with assault and battery or not. The only questions is whether Zimmerman committed a crime in killing Martin, and thus far, there is simply no evidence to suggest this was a criminal shooting.
    You're assuming that Zimmerman, who was following Martin around in his vehicle for long enough that Martin noted it during a phonecall and said his reaction was going to be to "walk faster," got out of his car and politely asked a question. That all remains to be determined, since despite the title of this thread NO ONE SAW WHAT HAPPENED AT THAT POINT. No one witnessed the initiation of force. The witness, being quoted all over these forums as proof of Martin's "thug" nature, saw Martin on top at one point, and punching, and then the next time he saw the two of them, Martin was dead. It is interesting how Martin being on top signals that he's a monstrous, malicious thug... but Zimmerman having shot him does not signify the same. It appears to be a product of the order of the two images.

    Prior to that, would it change your mind if Zimmerman were grabbing Martin's hoodie? Would it change your mind if Martin, reacting to the witness' own advice to "Stop" because he was "calling the cops," caused Martin to stop punching, at which point Zimmerman shot him? Or perhaps it's as people say, and Martin viciously attacked someone who had been following him. Maybe Zimmerman made a comment Martin didn't like. Maybe Martin is an evil, drug-crazed maniac as Zimmerman suspected. Who knows?

    But the bottom line here is that the cops really didn't know, either, and decided Zimmerman's story was 100% accurate and true, which is why he was not arrested.

    This does go to the grand jury on April 10th. Zimmerman just gets to be out of jail in the meantime.
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    That does not fit the narrative. Ignore this eye-witness!
    It is very possible that A LOT of people (Black Panthers, Obama, Farrakhan, Mr. Harlem himself) will have egg on their face.

    But unfortunately, the media will not confess their BS propaganda. Kinda like that left wing stalker who shot at the congresswomen in AZ, yet they blamed Palin and every member of the Tea Party. The left wing corporate media have a template to fulfill even it's a bold face lie.

    I guess there is no video uh?
    If Rand does not win the Republican nomination, he should buck the controlled two party system and run as an Independent for President in 2016 and give Americans a real option to vote for.

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  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfshadow View Post
    Well I gotta tell you if you where following me around well I walked around a neighborhood I might attack you to. Being hunted will trigger a flight or fight response. The big question is how zimmerman got out of the vechical to be attacked in the first place. The whole thing stinks of a couple people who "thought" they where defending themselves because of the actions of an idiot.
    Also, he was told by 9-1-1 operator NOT to follow. Zimmerman was dreaming of being a cop (or something), sadly he didn't have the training to back it up.
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