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Thread: County Currency As Strategic Liberty

  1. #1

    Default County Currency As Strategic Liberty

    Definition:

    county currency: a currency issued by a county government that it accepts in payment of taxes.


    The county currency plank currently before the Iowa GOP Platform Committee:

    Transactions conducted in county currencies shall not be subject to Federal or State taxes.


    Preliminary legislative statement of resolve:

    WHEREAS freedom is founded on independence, and

    WHEREAS independence is founded on self-sufficiency, and

    WHEREAS self-sufficiency is vital to security, and

    WHEREAS global interdependence has proven to be a threat to national security,


    Discussion

    "Main street" is facing a crisis in underutilization of local assets, including human labor. The price of these assets is being propped up from the top, while financial resources to purchase them remains unavailable to "main street".

    The Federal Reserve is making low interest rates unavailable to "main street" while allowing an inflated money supply to "trickle down" from global financial elites who enjoy those low interest rates. With this borrowed money the global financial elites enjoy uninflated prices as they buy up inflation-resistant assets that are underutilized due to economic malaise. This hoarding of inflation-resistant assets with an inflated money supply, happens as that inflated money supply then trickles down to "main street" by which time price inflation has rendered those assets out of reach. Moreover, this is a global phenomena affecting global supply chains, including supplies of capital ultimately producing sovereign debt crises such as that emerging in Europe and is likely to emerge in the United States -- particularly if Ron Paul is not elected President and, on his coat-tails, a Congress that honors their oaths to the Constitution.

    It is, therefore only prudent to prepare for disruption of global supply chains in the not-too-distant future. This can be thought of as buying insurance against such disruption. Moreover, there is an immediate need to address local economic distress -- particularly as it pertains to underutilization of human capital and provision of basic human needs as is evidenced, for example, by the explosion in dependence on federally funded food assistance programs.

    Local production of basic human needs by underutilized local human capital is an obvious remedy to such dependence on federal programs.
    Barter is one obvious option, eg: volunteering labor to food producers in exchange for food. However, housing costs are less amenable to such barter, and those costs exceed the cost of food for a typical person. Then there are utility bills, etc. Clearly mortgage lenders dependent on the Federal Reserve for "liquidity" cannot engage in barter for housing -- nor can land lords who live outside the locale. Even local land lords would have difficulty properly utilizing the labor of their tenants, so bartering labor for housing is not practical, even for land lords living in the community.

    What is needed is local money that local land lords will value. If local land lords value it, local food producers will value it. If local land lords and food producers value it, the economic foundation for local utilization of underutilized assets will exist.

    What do local land lords value? Money that can pay property taxes. That means the county government must accept the local money (as well as federal money) in payment of county taxes. Moreover, this means the county government will tend to demand control over the issuance of the local money. Hence, "county currency".

    Strategically, this is far more than a mere palliative to a crisis:

    As described in the statement of resolve, increasing localization of critical dependencies also increases liberty.

    If even one State passes this legislation and unburdens its county governments of only State taxes on sales and income in county currencies, it will revolutionize political economics by example.
    Last edited by jabowery; 03-19-2012 at 08:35 AM.



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  3. #2

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    Who gets to be in charge of printing it? I will do it if nobody else has already offered.
    "Everyone who believes in freedom must work diligently for sound money, fully redeemable. Nothing else is compatible with the humanitarian goals of peace and prosperity." -- Ron Paul

    Brother Jonathan

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post
    Who gets to be in charge of printing it? I will do it if nobody else has already offered.
    As stated in the article:

    county currency: a currency issued by a county government that it accepts in payment of taxes.

    and

    Moreover, this means the county government will tend to demand control over the issuance of the local money. Hence, "county currency".

    Thanks for responding.

    PS: My interpretation of your obvious snark and reckless reading of my article is you have contempt for the idea because you believe that no one should be allowed to issue money that isn't tied to some commodity. You are far more likely to convince your county government to back its currency with gold than you are the Federal government. Moreover, if the county in which you reside decides to be irresponsible with its local monetary authority, you currently cannot be stopped from moving to a county that either supports commodity-backed county currency, or continues to rely on Federal Reserve notes exclusively.
    Last edited by jabowery; 03-19-2012 at 08:49 AM.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabowery View Post
    As stated in the article:

    county currency: a currency issued by a county government that it accepts in payment of taxes.

    and

    Moreover, this means the county government will tend to demand control over the issuance of the local money. Hence, "county currency".

    Thanks for responding.
    Do you see how that empowers the county at the expense of the people? And it is unconstitutional.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabowery View Post
    As stated in the article:

    county currency: a currency issued by a county government that it accepts in payment of taxes.

    and

    Moreover, this means the county government will tend to demand control over the issuance of the local money. Hence, "county currency".

    Thanks for responding.

    PS: My interpretation of your obvious snark and reckless reading of my article is you have contempt for the idea because you believe that no one should be allowed to issue money that isn't tied to some commodity. You are far more likely to convince your county government to back its currency with gold than you are the Federal government. Moreover, if the county in which you reside decides to be irresponsible with its local monetary authority, you currently cannot be stopped from moving to a county that either supports commodity-backed county currency, or continues to rely on Federal Reserve notes exclusively.
    100% redeemable commodity money is the only incorruptible money. Giving any government counterfeiting privileges always ends poorly.

    The point I was making is that whoever gets control over the money supply controls the people. If you are fine with your county leaders controlling your life, then it is fine with me because I don't live in your county and I wouldn't. What you can expect is for your county leaders to get rich at the expense of the citizens of the county. That's the way control over the money supply always works.

    "Since the paper tickets—dollars, francs, pounds sterling, or what have you—are issued by the government, the government can issue any amount it arbitrarily chooses. Counterfeiting is built into the system, and hence so is inflation and eventual destruction of the currency." - Murray N. Rothbard

  7. #6

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    More local control versus Federal control is good, when it comes to whatever laws we are talking about.

    While I am not passing judgement on this particular issue without thinking about it more, I'd far rather have the strongest government I interact with be my County government rather than the State or Federal or (heaven forbid) some Global government.

    Ultimately the goal is some sort of pure voluntarianism but I see that requiring the same kind of change in human nature that communism does, so I have a hard time imagining peaceful anarchy. With that said the concept of Federalism, and of divided government in general, is more appealing than the monolithic Federal government we have today.

    If a county wanted to do all it's business in chickens and corn whiskey doesn't matter so long as it's a County law and the State government itself deals in gold and silver as currently required by the US Constitution.

    But the County should not be allowed to set the rate of exchange of chicken and corn whiskey to that of gold and silver, that is the proper role of the free market. If there were arbitrage opportunities to be found then enterprising individuals would rapidly do so.
    Last edited by WilliamC; 03-19-2012 at 09:14 AM.
    Ron Paul: He irritates more idiots in fewer words than any American politician ever.

    NO MORE LIARS! Ron Paul 2012

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post
    Do you see how that empowers the county at the expense of the people? And it is unconstitutional.
    What I see is that it empowers counties at the expense of the Federal Reserve and global financial elites. This is a lot closer to empowering the people than the present state of affairs. Moreover a county government can choose a commodity, like gold, as its county currency under this legislation.

    And it is constitutional. There is nothing in the US Constitution that bars any county from issuing county currency under any backing it likes. To read the restriction on the States to only gold and silver as applying its Counties is an over-reach similar to other over-reaching interpretations of the US Constitution that centralize power.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamC View Post
    But the County should not be allowed to set the rate of exchange of chicken and corn whiskey to that of gold and silver, that is the proper role of the free market. If there were arbitrage opportunities to be found then enterprising individuals would rapidly do so.
    The County is bound to set a market exchange rate between its currency and federal currency due to the fact that federal currency is declared "valid for all debts public and private". In other words, if a county's tax laws were stated in terms of its county currency, it would be required by federal law to declare a monetary exchange whose rate would determine the value of federal dollars in terms of county currency.
    Last edited by jabowery; 03-19-2012 at 09:26 AM.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post
    100% redeemable commodity money is the only incorruptible money. Giving any government counterfeiting privileges always ends poorly.

    The point I was making is that whoever gets control over the money supply controls the people. If you are fine with your county leaders controlling your life, then it is fine with me because I don't live in your county and I wouldn't. What you can expect is for your county leaders to get rich at the expense of the citizens of the county. That's the way control over the money supply always works.
    This is only true if the Counties are allowed to print currency not backed by some commodity, such as the land they control. Yes this leads to Georgist ideas but again so long as we are talking about Counties and (to a lessor extent States) then a large amount of experimentation should be tolerated and even encouraged.

    People will vote with their feet, and those Counties (and States to a lessor extent) that somehow manage to have the 'best' taxation system will attract more people, while those that have 'worse' tax systems will lose people.

    Obviously there is just as much possibility of corruption at the State and County level of government as at the Federal level, but to me a great start would be empowering the State governments at the expense of the Federal government as a way to reducing the total amount of government.

    Ultimately, the 'people' will be better able to get the kind of taxation and services 'they' desire, so long as the costs are not nationalized or globalized or redistributed.
    Ron Paul: He irritates more idiots in fewer words than any American politician ever.

    NO MORE LIARS! Ron Paul 2012

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabowery View Post
    The County is bound to set a market exchange rate between its currency and federal currency due to the fact that federal currency is declared as for "all debts public and private". In other words, if a county's tax laws were stated in terms of its county currency, it would be required by federal law to declare a monetary exchange whose rate would determine the value of federal dollars in terms of county currency.
    So long as the Federal government enforces legal tender laws that will be true, but what about the hypothetical situation where there are no legal tender laws and the Federal government merely enforces measures and weights and coinage laws?

    Passing the buck as it were, or the legal authority to enact a fiat currency, would be no better at the County level than the Federal level, especially if every County did this.
    Ron Paul: He irritates more idiots in fewer words than any American politician ever.

    NO MORE LIARS! Ron Paul 2012

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamC View Post
    Passing the buck as it were, or the legal authority to enact a fiat currency, would be no better at the County level than the Federal level, especially if every County did this.
    The problem with political economy is the lack of scientific discipline and that is overcome by allowing variation: control groups.

    Without control groups the sophomoric bromide "Correlation doesn't imply causation." is the "go to" response of all sophists and renders the task of discovery impossibly complicated by the advocacy of political ideologues.

    The likelihood of all counties behaving the same with regard to issuance of county currency is vastly less likely, and the damage less far reaching, than at the State level. I know I don't have to convince you that the same applies in the relative dangers of State vs Federal levels.

    As I said: All it takes is for one State to unburden its Counties with respect to county currency transactions, and political economics -- that is the science of political economy -- will be revolutionized.
    Last edited by jabowery; 03-19-2012 at 09:35 AM.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabowery View Post
    The problem with political economy is the lack of scientific discipline and that is overcome by allowing variation: control groups.

    Without control groups the sophomoric bromide "Correlation doesn't imply causation." is the "go to" response of all sophists and renders the task of discovery impossibly complicated by the advocacy of political ideologues.

    The likelihood of all counties behaving the same with regard to issuance of county currency is vastly less likely, and the damage less far reaching, than at the State level. I know I don't have to convince you that the same applies in the relative dangers of State vs Federal levels.

    As I said: All it takes is for one State to unburden its Counties with respect to county currency transactions, and political economics -- that is the science of political economy -- will be revolutionized.
    Thus the huge disinformation campaign put forth to convince people that the USA is a democracy when in fact it is a republic.

    Yep.
    Ron Paul: He irritates more idiots in fewer words than any American politician ever.

    NO MORE LIARS! Ron Paul 2012

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamC View Post
    Thus the huge disinformation campaign put forth to convince people that the USA is a democracy when in fact it is a republic.

    Yep.
    You got it. The very first republics established by the Greeks were, in fact, seen as part of the "science" of government for exactly this reason.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamC View Post
    This is only true if the Counties are allowed to print currency not backed by some commodity, such as the land they control. Yes this leads to Georgist ideas but again so long as we are talking about Counties and (to a lessor extent States) then a large amount of experimentation should be tolerated and even encouraged.

    People will vote with their feet, and those Counties (and States to a lessor extent) that somehow manage to have the 'best' taxation system will attract more people, while those that have 'worse' tax systems will lose people.

    Obviously there is just as much possibility of corruption at the State and County level of government as at the Federal level, but to me a great start would be empowering the State governments at the expense of the Federal government as a way to reducing the total amount of government.

    Ultimately, the 'people' will be better able to get the kind of taxation and services 'they' desire, so long as the costs are not nationalized or globalized or redistributed.
    Irredeemable currencies are unacceptable if forced upon the people by government decree. For pure freedom to be achieved complete separation of money and government is required. The only tasks government should have concerning money are what they will accept in payment of taxes and fixing the standard of weights and measures. That's it. Having the privileges of printing currency and enforcing law creates a powerful entity that can only grow over time. Separate them completely.
    "Everyone who believes in freedom must work diligently for sound money, fully redeemable. Nothing else is compatible with the humanitarian goals of peace and prosperity." -- Ron Paul

    Brother Jonathan

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post
    Irredeemable currencies are unacceptable if forced upon the people by government decree. For pure freedom to be achieved complete separation of money and government is required. The only tasks government should have concerning money are what they will accept in payment of taxes and fixing the standard of weights and measures. That's it. Having the privileges of printing currency and enforcing law creates a powerful entity that can only grow over time. Separate them completely.
    You do realize that some people disagree with your opinion, do you not? Do you believe that those who disagree with you should be prevented from forming their own local economies that put their erroneous beliefs to the test, even if they are a small minority of the total population? If that is your belief then what distinguishes you from a theocrat?

    Come now:

    Wouldn't you agree that the most powerful argument you can make in favor of your strongly held hypothesis is a controlled experiment in which fully-informed, voluntary groups are able to form local economies that vary primarily in the basis of their currency?
    Last edited by jabowery; 03-19-2012 at 09:59 AM.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabowery View Post
    You do realize that people disagree with your opinion, do you not?
    Yes, I do realize that and disagreements are good for discussion. It is, however, easy to see how anything less than 100% redeemable currency is dishonest. Dishonesty is what government does best.

    Quote Originally Posted by jabowery View Post
    Do you believe that those who disagree with you should be prevented from forming their own local economies that put their erroneous beliefs to the test? If that is your belief then what distinguishes you from a theocrat?
    It is fine with me if people live in tyranny as long as I have the option to live free.

    Quote Originally Posted by jabowery View Post

    Come now:

    Wouldn't you agree that the most powerful argument you can make in favor of your strongly held hypothesis is a controlled experiment in which fully-informed, voluntary groups are able to form local economies that vary primarily in the basis of their currency?
    No, the most powerful argument is to use reason and logic to dictate that an honest society is more peaceful, free, and individually prosperous than a society controlled by dishonest elite.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamC View Post
    Thus the huge disinformation campaign put forth to convince people that the USA is a democracy when in fact it is a republic.

    Yep.
    I would argue that is long gone in practice. While the trappings of republicanism remain for illusion, in practice it's been hollowed out and turned into a "social democracy". So many things are directly elected on now-from senators to voter initiatives-the word "republic" doesn't seem correct anymore. JMHO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    The government is incapable of doing what it's supposed to do. A job like the provision of security is something best left to private institutions.
    My music/art page is here"government is the enemy of liberty"-RP
    That which doesn't kill me has made a grave tactical error
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    This whole board is a thoughtcrime in progress.
    Quote Originally Posted by danke View Post
    I carry my man purse for fashion, not function.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post
    ...the most powerful argument is to use reason and logic to dictate that an honest society is more peaceful, free, and individually prosperous than a society controlled by dishonest elite.
    So you disagree with the cardinal rule of science, which is that theory is subordinate to experiment.

    You do realize that this was the fundamental conflict between enlightenment philosophers and the Catholic theocracy, do you not?
    Last edited by jabowery; 03-19-2012 at 10:17 AM.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabowery View Post
    So you disagree with the cardinal rule of science, which is that theory is subordinate to experiment.
    That experiment has already been proven as a failure. Do you really need another experiment to prove that giving the elite in charge the power of theft is less liberating to the people being controlled than being honest with each other and letting them control themselves?

    Quote Originally Posted by jabowery View Post
    You do realize that this was the fundamental conflict between enlightenment philosophers and the Catholic theocracy, do you not?
    I did not know that. Thanks, learn something new everyday ... that's what I always say.
    Last edited by Travlyr; 03-19-2012 at 10:25 AM.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post
    That experiment has already been proven as a failure.
    Supporters of fiat currency claim that the experiment of the gold standard has already been tried and was proven a failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post
    Do you really need another experiment to prove that giving the elite in charge the power of theft is less liberating to the people being controlled than being honest with each other and letting them control themselves?
    I will depersonalize your use of "you" as the editorial or generic "you" as though you had said "one" and proceed:

    Every tyranny in history has proclaimed its theory to have been proven by history and that therefore, its subjects don't "need" the freedom that would allow additional experimentation: The most prominent example being Marxists.

    Your continued oppositional behavior here is making it increasingly difficult to interpret it as anything except an attempt to prevent voluntary experimentation in the social sciences.

    Either you agree with such voluntary experimentation or you are a supporter of tyranny.

    Which are you?
    Last edited by jabowery; 03-19-2012 at 10:42 AM.

  22. #21

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    I'm not a tyrant or an advocate of violence against other humans except in cases of self-defense. I have no power over anyone. I continue to oppose your experiment because I see clearly to where it will lead. Having said that, I will likely never live in Iowa, so in that regard, I'm indifferent to your proposal. It would be honest on your part to provide full disclosure if you are advocating counterfeiting (anything less than 100% redeemable currency) as a solution because it does favor whoever has the authority to print currency and their circle of friends.
    "Everyone who believes in freedom must work diligently for sound money, fully redeemable. Nothing else is compatible with the humanitarian goals of peace and prosperity." -- Ron Paul

    Brother Jonathan

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post
    I'm not a tyrant or an advocate of violence against other humans except in cases of self-defense. I have no power over anyone.
    If you did have power, would you use it to prevent a county from adopting county currency backed by nothing except its value in payment of taxes?

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabowery View Post
    If you did have power, would you use it to prevent a county from adopting county currency backed by nothing except its value in payment of taxes?
    Just so long as the citizens of said county could be armed and could leave and take their wealth with them, no.

    If they couldn't and If I were able to help liberate such an oppressed people I would possibly try and do so, depending on other unknown circumstances.

    However if they wanted to stay there and try to make a fiat currency work then that's their business, but I tend to agree that their attempt would be short-lived as motivated and hard-working individuals fled the local leaving behind the lazy and parasitic moochers to their eventual economic collapse.

    The problem with the world today is that there is no where left to go, as there was during the 1600's to the mid/late 1800's in the USA when radically free-thinking folks could just pack up and leave to the wilderness when society oppressed them too badly.
    Ron Paul: He irritates more idiots in fewer words than any American politician ever.

    NO MORE LIARS! Ron Paul 2012

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabowery View Post
    If you did have power, would you use it to prevent a county from adopting county currency backed by nothing except its value in payment of taxes?
    If the public school system taught honest sound money principles, then there would be no need for me to do anything. Nobody would agree to straight up theft unless they didn't understand how valueless currency works. Theft is theft no matter if it is the Rothschild bankers, the Federal, state, county, city, corporations, or the mafia doing the counterfeiting. Theft is theft and I'll never agree to it. If I had the power, then yes I would prevent it.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamC View Post
    The problem with the world today is that there is no where left to go, as there was during the 1600's to the mid/late 1800's in the USA when radically free-thinking folks could just pack up and leave to the wilderness when society oppressed them too badly.
    You do realize that the plank before the Iowa GOP platform committee would provide many "places to go" that would use gold, silver, wheat, BTUs, food calories, etc. as their currencies, correct?

    PS: One that I have broached with Page county is corn.
    Last edited by jabowery; 03-19-2012 at 11:31 AM.

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post
    If I had the power, then yes I would prevent it.
    Even if there were agreement among all residents of the county that they wanted a county currency that was backed by nothing but its value in payment of county taxes?

  28. #27

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    @ jabowery

    I feel this idea really can't really be considered unless it seems hyperinflation is about to hit (a mass of T-bill selloff in the news) and it does seem like SHTF will be having wild crazy sex with FUBAR.

    Unless that type of event happens, it will cause too much of a mess and confusion in a functioning economy at the local and national level. Hence, IMMEDIATELY after a currency collapse, a contingency plan as you are proposing should this be done in a state of financial emergency as a "Financial Emergency Response Plan". (FERP? HERP A DERP!) I suggest you only create the plan for immediate review for local officials in a meeting of the county's commissoners' court as an effort to restore order in the community. I wouldn't bother with forcing counties to consider how to print money either as they HATE being told what to do. Only provide them that option for a recommendation and neeeded information. Recommend them work with local banks to coordinate and issue some sort of bank notes or certificates (Really that is all you need). Frankly they will want to vote on what to do and be apart of the process and not an administrative assitant. They may flat out reject the plan as they will still have lingering faith in the Federal Government. You may need to have Ron Paul like supporters in these political positions to explain the geo-political situation if anything.

    What you CAN do right now is have a local currency done by PRIVATE citizens in a private association. (Ron Paul supporters in a region establishing an informal trade group) Don't break any laws either and don't run a black market with contraband. Simply have trading parties or something. Some folks may want seeds, some may want silver/gold collectables, some may want to trade food stuff for another commodity, and etc. Think of it like an informal year round gun show with club members. That is ideal right now. In fact, I think around the country we need to start getting physical networks like this like an offline social network that acts like an informal farmer's market/gun show/community markets.
    Last edited by Athan; 03-19-2012 at 11:55 AM. Reason: HERP'd so hard I DERP'd.
    For the Republic! For the Cause!
    The Truth About Central Banking and Business Cycles
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaxIPPMR3fI#t=186

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by jabowery View Post
    Even if there were agreement among all residents of the county that they wanted a county currency that was backed by nothing but its value in payment of county taxes?
    Why would anybody agree to that?

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Athan View Post
    @ jabowery

    I feel this idea really can't really be considered unless it seems hyperinflation is about to hit (a mass of T-bill selloff in the news) and it does seem like SHTF will be having wild crazy sex with FUBAR.
    This plank has pass the precinct, county and congressional district conventions.

    What is your definition of "can't"?

  31. #30

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    That is fine. You can push this on the GOP plank. By all means, go ape.

    I'm talking about real world application however. You can't just force a county to adopt GOP planks unless a majority of county commissioners agree and are ready to impliment a plan now and are going to vote "Yea" on the county currency. In that case, they will need to deal with the FED as they will NOT be letting your plan be executed for long. Your going to get people arrested by the IRS faster than you can say Wesly Snipes.

    Now, UNLESS that is where you are at now, then I recommend what I wrote.

    EDIT: By the way, it is good you have that pushed through. You are using the first steps in a legal process to prevent people from being locked up by using county currency. You are getting a political party to move towards removing legal tender laws that destroy the economy. Without overturning the law, your county members may be arrested for common sense.
    Last edited by Athan; 03-19-2012 at 12:06 PM.
    For the Republic! For the Cause!
    The Truth About Central Banking and Business Cycles
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaxIPPMR3fI#t=186

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