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Thread: MN-Man having seizures, family call EMT, they get cops instead who tackle and handcuff man

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    Exclamation MN-Man having seizures, family call EMT, they get cops instead who tackle and handcuff man

    Stop resisting! Stop resisting!

    Seems the assholes who called the cops were the neighbors, who heard all the commotion.



    Family Claims Police Brutality in Coon Rapids Medical Emergency

    http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/n...#ixzz1pOo20CSJ

    COON RAPIDS, Minn. - A metro family is accusing Coon Rapids police officers of using excessive force on a man who was suffering a medical emergency after returning home from his mother's funeral, but they aren't looking for money -- just an apology for how he was treated.

    The victim in this case needed medical attention for a heart condition, but instead he found himself being subdued by four officers.

    Paramedics got to the scene first, but when neighbors called police fearing the commotion was a domestic argument, everything changed.

    "When they see their dad laying down, not responding -- yes, they were screaming," said Bassam Ayoub, who was restrained by police.

    Ayoub, who had open-heart surgery a number of years ago, needed medical attention for a heart condition combined with the overwhelming emotions of attending his mother's funeral had him feeling faint without his nitroglycerin pills on hand.

    Ayoud's son told FOX 9 News his father was having a seizure, with his eyes rolling back into his head, when police went on the offensive.

    "I was shaking to the extent -- I got so much power -- the dude can't even put my arm behind my back," Ayoub said.

    Since he was in the middle of a seizure, he couldn't control his limbs -- and that led to a tragic misunderstanding that was hard to overcome. The more he appeared to resist, the more police tried to restrain him while family members got more and more upset.

    "The cops are pushing his face down into the ground while his eyes are rolling back, and I'm standing there watching them, watching them hold him down," said Hanna Ayoud, the victim's daughter.

    Ayoub says he has marks from handcuffs and bruises from being held down by at least four officers, and those facts are consistent with the police reports. He has since filed a complaint and was interviewed by Coon Rapids police, telling them he just wants an apology for how he was treated.

    "Police are really at a disadvantage going into someone's home," said Neil Melton, executive director of Peace Officer Standards and Training.

    Melton is in charge of the state agency that licenses officers. He says that while officers can train for situations like this, only experience can prepare them for the balancing act.

    "It doesn't always work according to the script, and some people refuse to calm down," Melton said.

    (So, if cops show up and you're having an uncontrolled seizure, you better snap out that diabetic coma or heart problem quickly and obey the officer's commands. - AF)

    Yet, police say the situation was only made worse by the number of family members who refused to listen to their commands. The family insists they were just trying to give officers the information they needed to stop restraining Ayoub.

    "When someone's having a seizure, you're not supposed to hold them down," said Bassam Ayoud, the victim's son. "That's what was happening. His arms were flailing because he was having a seizure."
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    but they aren't looking for money -- just an apology for how he was treated.
    They need to sue, and Sue BIG.

    Make it entirely TOO damn expensive to keep these thugs employed.

    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
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    lol they'd just suck the payoff money out of the taxpayers anyway.

    crappy story though. maybe they were having training flashbacks?
    Last edited by noneedtoaggress; 03-17-2012 at 01:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noneedtoaggress View Post
    lol they'd just suck the payoff money out of the taxpayers anyway.

    crappy story though. maybe they were having training flashbacks?
    SOP.

    Seen this a bunch of times.

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    Sigh...I was a deputy in that county. Lot's of good people at heart in that department, but as we all know you simply cannot do that job as it stands today, good though you may be at heart, without ending up like these guys.

    I wish we would wake up.

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    I'm all against new laws but personally wouldn't not mind a 'Nosy Neighbour' law which puts all culpability on a bud-in-ski.

    Perhaps just a service that much like the 'no phone' laws can be filed with the police force that prohibits them to come knocking unless you are the one initiating the call?
    Last edited by phill4paul; 03-17-2012 at 01:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noneedtoaggress View Post
    lol they'd just suck the payoff money out of the taxpayers anyway.

    crappy story though. maybe they were having training flashbacks?
    Yes they would.
    And the taxpayers need to pay it. IT IS THEIR FAULT.

    When it gets TOO Expensive the taxpayers will REFUSE to pay it and Fire the whole bunch.

    They need to sue then into non existence.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiseAgainst View Post
    Sigh...I was a deputy in that county. Lot's of good people at heart in that department, but as we all know you simply cannot do that job as it stands today, good though you may be at heart, without ending up like these guys.

    I wish we would wake up.
    wow, that's a crazy coincidence (or maybe it's just an inevitability). good for you for following the truth, though. mad props.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RiseAgainst View Post
    Sigh...I was a deputy in that county. Lot's of good people at heart in that department, but as we all know you simply cannot do that job as it stands today, good though you may be at heart, without ending up like these guys.

    I wish we would wake up.
    They are hiring idiots and people with serious problems now. I started to see it in my department back in 2006. The craziness is nationwide now.
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    Where were the EMT's/Paramedics in all of this? If it's a medical emergency, as was originally called, considering EMS was first on scene the cops should obey their authority.

    Why did EMS not stand up for their patient? This did not have to even happen. If it was my patient, and it was one of my calls, it wouldn't have happened. Sometimes you have to remind cops that they have no medical authority and piss-poor medical training.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nirvikalpa View Post
    Where were the EMT's/Paramedics in all of this? If it's a medical emergency, as was originally called, considering EMS was first on scene the cops should obey their authority.

    Why did EMS not stand up for their patient? This did not have to even happen. If it was my patient, and it was one of my calls, it wouldn't have happened. Sometimes you have to remind cops that they have no medical authority and piss-poor medical training.
    That is, sadly, not how it goes down in real life.

    I've posted a number of stories over the years where cops show up after the fact at the scene and firemen and/or EMTs have tried to get them to back off and they arrest them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nirvikalpa View Post
    Where were the EMT's/Paramedics in all of this? If it's a medical emergency, as was originally called, considering EMS was first on scene the cops should obey their authority.

    Why did EMS not stand up for their patient? This did not have to even happen. If it was my patient, and it was one of my calls, it wouldn't have happened. Sometimes you have to remind cops that they have no medical authority and piss-poor medical training.
    Remember that thread about the cop who stopped that EMT when he was en route with a patient just because he was speeding? There are some crazy, sociopathic types wearing cop costumes out there.
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    Pretty easy to recognize a seizure if you have ever seen one...

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Remember that thread about the cop who stopped that EMT when he was en route with a patient just because he was speeding? There are some crazy, sociopathic types wearing cop costumes out there.
    This is real life,,

    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
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    //
    Last edited by randomname; 03-17-2012 at 02:11 PM.

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    IIRC correctly, that man they were treating, died.

    Thanks Pete, that's one of many.

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    More reality.


    Tased in His Own House: California Man Sues Police

    http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/tased-hous...8#.T2TvHltNquM

    By MIKE VON FREMD and SARAH NETTER
    Sept. 1, 2010

    A 911 call for help after a fall ended with a 64-year-old cancer survivor getting Tased three times by police in his California home, an action his attorney said could have killed him.

    Marin County sheriff's deputies turned a Taser on Peter McFarland when he refused to go to the hospital and allegedly became belligerent.

    "These are deadly weapons, and he had a heart condition," McFarland's attorney, John Scott, told "Good Morning America." " He could have easily been killed here."

    McFarland can be seen screaming in agony on a police video, lying on the floor as the officers pumped high-powered volts of electricity into his back.

    Scott said his client has recovered physically from the June 2009 incident, but that he's suing not only for compensation for his injuries but also to raise awareness about the "use of Tasers in situations where force is not warranted."

    But police told a different story. McFarland, who had been drinking, said he wanted to kill himself and that he was depressed. Deputies can be heard on the weapon-mounted video, asking calmly for him to come with them.

    "We want to take you to the hospital for an evaluation," the unnamed deputy said. "You said if you had a gun you would shoot yourself in the head."

    "I'm depressed," McFarland replied.

    Then, the deputy: "OK, well that's why we want to take you to talk to somebody."

    A short time later, after police seemingly became increasingly worried about McFarland's growing agitation, McFarland attempted to get up from the couch and approach the deputies. The Taser was fired into his chest shortly afterward.

    He was then Tased twice more.

    In a statement issued by the Marin County Sheriff's Office, officials defended the deputies.

    "We are confident the actions of our deputies will be found to have been both within the law and department policy," the statement read.

    Former homicide detective Rod Wheeler, who was not involved in the case, told "Good Morning America" from that he thought police were well within their rights to use the Taser on McFarland after he became belligerent.

    "You have to take into account the entire situation and all of the circumstances," Wheeler said. "We see in law enforcement, people who are intoxicated become very violent and hostile."


    McFarland told ABC's San Francisco affiliate KGO that he called 911 after slipping and falling on the steps at his house. In the video, his pants are torn.

    But after being treated by paramedics, he said, he was ready for it all to be over. That's when, he said, police stormed in.

    "They came in here like there was a fire going on, like a gunfight was going on," he told KGO.


    The threat to kill himself, he said, was simply a turn of phrase and that he was tired and in pain from his injuries.

    Wheeler said that in a case like this one, the Taser is a better option than bringing out a nightclub and getting into a physical fight.

    "In olden times a situation like this would have ended with a shooting or something like that," he said.

    But noted criminal defense attorney Mark Geragos disagreed.

    "I think McFarland has got a whale of a case of his claims against police," he told "Good Morning America." "This idea that they need to take him in because he was a threat to himself is almost laughable."

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    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Pretty easy to recognize a seizure if you have ever seen one...
    Yup... hard to miss a Grand Mal seizure.
    Last edited by AFPVet; 03-17-2012 at 02:13 PM.
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    More of what happens when cops "help" with medical conditions.



    Death In The Devil's Chair: Florida Man's Pepper Spray Death Raises Questions About Jail Abuse

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1192412.html



    When he left his home in Ohio to visit his brother in Fort Myers, Fla. in March 2009, Nick Christie was already breaking down, physically and mentally. His wife Joyce was concerned about his well-being. Rightly so. By the end of the month, the grandfather of two, whose only prior run-in with the law was a DUI in the 1980s, would be strapped to a restraining chair in the Lee County, Fla. jail, coated with a thick layer of pepper spray, smothered in a "spit hood," then finally taken to a Florida hospital where, two days later, he would die.

    Christie, 62, a retired boilermaker, suffered from heart disease as well as emphysema, the latter the likely result of his former smoking habit and years of exposure to asbestos. A bout with diverticulitis had forced him to cancel a fishing trip the year before, and he slipped into a depression after he was hospitalized for chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, a condition that further constricted his breathing.

    Christie had been taking medication for his depression, but the doctor who was treating him had recently moved. That left no one to manage Christie's spiraling emotional state, and no one to control the possible side effects of his medication. Christie's wife worried about his trip to Florida, to the point where she contacted police in Lee County herself to ask that they keep an eye out for her husband. At her request, a captain from the Girard, Ohio police department also called Lee County officials and asked them to take Christie to a hospital if they found him.

    Christie was first arrested on March 25, for public intoxication. Though there's evidence Christie had been drinking, he was also beginning his mental deterioration, and may have merely been disoriented. One fast-food worker he interacted with that night said she thought he was suffering from Alzheimer's. Though confused (he couldn't remember his wife's or brother's phone number), Christie did inform the jail attendants of his various medical conditions, and gave them a list of the medications he was taking. He was released the next day.

    Christie was then arrested again on March 27, this time for misdemeanor trespassing. Nicholas DiCello, whose Cleveland firm Spangenberg Shibley & Liber has filed a civil rights lawsuit on behalf of Joyce and Christie's estate, says the second arrest was for a minor offense. "It was for trespassing at the hotel where was staying," DiCello says. "He was having another mental episode. He was bewildered, acting crazy, and so the hotel got fed up and asked him to leave. When he didn't go, they called the police."

    According to DiCello, the jail staff and the staff for Prison Health Services, the private company contracted to provide medical service to the jail, ordered no advanced physical or mental health screening for Christie before he was jailed, despite the long list of medical conditions already in his file from his prior arrest. There is also no indication that anyone was made aware of Joyce Christie's notification of Lee County officials, in which she informed them about her husband's conditions. According to the lawsuit, after the second arrest, Lee County deputies locked Christie's medications in his truck. During his 43 hours in custody, he was never given medication.

    Christie was uncooperative and nonsensical from the time he was arrested, but at some point after his incarceration, he became combative. Lee County deputies responded by either directly spraying him or fogging his cell with pepper spray at least 10 times. (According to police, Christie was sprayed eight times. A cell mate was sprayed two other times, which may have affected Christie.) He was never allowed to "decontaminate" -- to wash the spray off. Other inmates in the jail, who weren't targeted with the spray, told the Fort Myers News-Press the blasts were so strong that the secondary effects caused them to gag.

    The deputies then put Christie into a restraining chair, a controversial device that binds inmates at both wrists, both ankles, and across the chest. In depositions, the other inmates, along with a deputy trainee named Monshay Gibbs, testified that Christie was sprayed at least two more times after he had been strapped to the chair. He was also stripped naked, and outfitted with a "spit mask," a hood designed to prevent inmates from spitting on jail personnel. In Christie's case, the mask kept the pepper spray in close proximity to his nose and mouth, ensuring he would continue to inhale it for the full six hours he was in the restraint chair.

    According to Gibbs' testimony, Christie pleaded with the deputies, telling them he had a heart condition and numerous other medical problems, and that the spit mask made it difficult for him to breathe. Other inmates have confirmed Gibbs' account, adding that Christie began to turn purple.

    When Joyce Christie heard of her husband's second arrest, she flew down to Florida to find him. "She was actually relieved to hear he had been arrested," DiCello says. "She thought they had responded to her pleas for help, that they would take him to a hospital to be treated." She eventually made her way to the Lee County jail. Joyce Christie would later learn that at one point in the night, when she was pleading with police to take her husband to the hospital, at the same time and in the same building he was being tortured to death in the restraint chair.

    "She left frustrated," DiCello says. "They weren't listening to her. She didn't know what to do."

    In the early afternoon of March 29, Nick Christie went into respiratory distress. He was taken to the Gulf Coast Medical Center in Fort Myers. Joyce Christie told journalist Jane Akre that according to hospital staff, her husband was so covered in pepper spray that doctors had to repeatedly change their gloves as they became contaminated. Christie would suffer multiple heart attacks over the next two days before he was finally declared brain dead and his life support was removed on March 31. Two days after Christie had been transported out of the jail, Deputy Medical Examiner Dr. Robert Pfalzgraf noted in his autopsy report that Christie still had brown-orange liquid pepper spray all over his body.

    Pfalzgraf determined that Christie's heart gave out due to stress from his exposure to pepper spray. He ruled the death a homicide.

    The Devil's Chair

    "I look at this story, and all I can say is, what in the world were they thinking?" says David Klinger, a former police officer who now teaches at the University of Missouri-St. Louis. Klinger specializes in the use of force. "As a general rule, you don't use pepper spray on someone who is restrained. There might be some limited circumstances where, say, you have a suspect in handcuffs who is banging his head against the window of a patrol car. You might give him a quick burst of pepper spray. But never, never someone who is secured in a restraint chair. It just makes no sense at all."

    The Lee County deputies appear to have violated accepted use of force guidelines a number of different ways, including the length of time they kept Christie strapped to the chair, pepper spraying him after he had been restrained (as well as their failure to clean the pepper spray off of him), their failure to properly evaluate him for mental and physical health problems, and their failure to allow him to take his medication.

    While the Florida Sheriff's Association told HuffPost that it has no guidelines on the use of restraint chairs, there seems to be a strong consensus that the use of pepper spray, stun guns, or other compliance tools after a suspect has been restrained is at minimum excessive force, and possibly a crime.

    The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit has found that pepper spraying suspects suffering mental illness is a violation of their constitutional rights, and several federal appeals courts have ruled that spraying someone who is already restrained is an excessive use of force. The state of Vermont forbids the use of restraint chairs for punishment, and requires approval from a medical professional and a mental health professional before a chair can be used. In the event that an inmate poses an immediate risk, a mental health professional is to be contacted immediately after the inmate is strapped in. The Florida Department of Juvenile Justice forbids the use of restraint chairs and pepper spray on incarcerated minors entirely.

    The Florida State Prison System doesn't use restraint chairs, either. A spokeswoman told the Orlando Sentinel in 2006 that the state's Department of Corrections has determined the chairs are a safety risk, and inappropriate for prisoners with mental illness. The problem, some experts say, is that inmates with mental illness are particularly prone to "excited delirium," an escalating set of respiratory and cardiovascular symptoms that can lead to death. (Though the diagnosis is still controversial.)

    Steve Yerger has been training law enforcement agencies on the use of force for 20 years, and gives what he says is the only course on restraint chairs in the country. Yerger says the complete restriction of movement to which the chair subjects inmates can trigger physiological effects -- both respiratory and circulatory -- and that the problem can be exacerbated in patients with mental health problems. "They can just go through the roof, and then they crash. You need to make sure you have constant monitoring, and that you always have medical professionals close by," Yerger says.

    But inmates with mental illness are also more likely to present a threat to themselves or others, which means they're more likely to need restraint. A 2009 report by the Maryland Frederick News-Post, for example, found that in the previous year, 64 percent of inmates put in a restraint chair by the Frederick County Sheriff's Department had mental health problems.

    While there's no universal policy on how long an inmate can safely be left in a restraint chair, the Oklahoma Department of Corrections limits it to two hours. Texas limits the time to five hours in any 24-hour period. Montana limits restraint to four hours. Iowa law also limits the time to four hours (though Iowa jails that exceed that limit appear to suffer little more than some public criticism.) Utah banned restraint chairs entirely after inmate Michael Valent died of blood clots -- the result of being strapped to a chair for 16 hours. Though in Utah too, several counties continued to use the chair after the ban.

    There have been a number of deaths over the years at least in part attributed to what critics call "the devil's chair" or the "torture chair." In a 2000 article for The Progressive Anne-Marie Cusac documented 11 deaths, including several inmates with mental illness as well as cases in which inmates were pepper sprayed after they had been restrained. Cusac notes that in the 1999 case of James Arthur Livingston, who died after being strapped to a restraint chair in Tarrant County, Texas, the first deputy who attempted to give Livingston CPR wrote in his report, "I then removed myself from the area and walked into the sally port, where I threw up from inhaling pepper gas residue from inmate Livingston."

    In 2004, the Dayton City Paper wrote about three restraint chair-related deaths in Dayton County, Ohio, alone.

    Restraint chair-related lawsuits alleging patterns of abuse have proliferated across the country, including in Iowa, Georgia (PDF), Colorado, Texas, California, New Jersey and Maricopa County, Arizona, where the chairs were finally replaced in 2006 after three deaths and several million dollars paid out in settlements.

    Florida has also had its share of restraint chair problems. Four of the 11 deaths Cusac chronicles in her 2000 article took place in Florida jails. In 2007, Lake County paid out a $500,000 settlement to the family of a woman who suffocated in a restraint chair, though the settlement didn't bar the county from using the chair in the future. The state has also been the scene of a years-long, high-profile controversy following the use of a restraint chair on the daughter of the Florida State Attorney in 2005.

    Like Klinger, the former police officer, Yerger says the use of pepper spray in conjunction with the chair was particularly over the line. "This is a tool for restraint, and there's no reason to pepper spray someone once they're restrained. That's punishment, and it's a form of torture. At minimum, that sort of thing should cost someone his job. And it should probably lead to criminal charges."

    But the pepper spray-restraint chair combination has happened in other jurisdictions as well. Last year, a Harrison County, Indiana, officer was accused of putting pepper spray in a hood, then putting it over the head of an inmate already nude and bound to a restraining chair. In the following months, more accusations came out against the department, many again involving abuse of the restraining chair. In 2006, deputies in another Harrison County -- this one in Mississippi -- emptied an entire can of pepper spray into a hood that they then placed over the head of Jesse Lee Williams, while he was confined to a restraint chair. Williams, who was also severely beaten, later died of kidney failure.

    Yerger says the other problem in Lee County is that once Christie had been securely restrained, he needed medical treatment. While the officers in Lee County were clearly out of line, Yerger says, the problem in many other cases is more a lack of training.

    "Several years ago, I was researching the restraint chair for a case where I was going to be an expert witness. I found that all of these police departments across the country were using the chairs, but none of them were getting any training," Yerger says. "There's no training on the proper way to put someone into the chair, but more importantly, you have these people who have mental problems, or who are on alcohol or drugs. These are medical problems, that require medical attention. This isn't criminal behavior. But that's sometimes how it's treated."

    This collection of deaths, injuries and reports of abuse involving restraint chairs has moved both Amnesty International and the United Nations Committee Against torture to call for a ban on the devices.

    In her 2000 article, Cusac points to a deposition of Dan Corcoran, president of AEDEC International Inc., the Beaverton, Oregon, company which manufactures the Prostraint Violent Prisoner Chair. Corcoran acknowledges that the only testing he did of the chair before marketing it was to put some friends in it. He says the chair had never been tested in any scientific way for its effect on someone impaired by drugs, alcohol or mental illness (in fact, he specifically recommends the chair for the first two), or for other hazards like deep vein thrombosis, the sometimes-fatal blood clotting that can occur after remaining in the same position for more than a few hours.

    But both Yerger and Klinger say calls for banning the chair are misplaced. They say restraint is sometimes critical when a prisoner poses a threat to himself or others, and there's nothing particularly sinister about the restraint chair. "Once you take care of the immediate threat -- and you really do need to take care of that -- then you treat the case like it needs to be treated. That means if it's someone having a mental crisis, you get them to a hospital," Yerger says.

    "Any new device or piece of technology can be helpful, or it can be abused, whether it's a restraint chair, a Taser, or baton," says Klinger. "If you have officers who are willing to punish and abuse a restrained prisoner, it's going to happen whether he's in a restraint chair, handcuffs, or a restraint bed or gurney. The device isn't the problem. It's the officers."

    "It's really about culture," says Yerger. "You need to instill a distinct code, especially in a correctional facility, that emphasizes control over punishment."

    Yerger cites Philip Zimbardo's famous 1971 Stanford Prison Experiment which, though it later came under criticism, showed how quickly students randomly chosen to be guards in a hypothetical prison resorted to abusing students randomly chosen to be prisoners. "It's a constant thing. It has to be hammered home, over and over."

    In Christie's case, that puts the bulk of the blame on the deputies and Lee County Sheriff Mike Scott, not on the restraint chair.

    No Accountability

    When Joyce Christie finally got a phone call in March 2009 letting her know that her husband had been taken to the hospital, the call was anonymous, and the caller didn't say what hospital. She used caller I.D. to determine the call had come from the Gulf Coast Medical Center. When she arrived, the police wouldn't let her see her husband. Fortunately, someone in the waiting room overheard her conversation and gave her the card for a bail bondsman. She left to get the bond, and only after posting bond was she allowed to see him. By then, Nick Christie was close to death. As a deputy at the hospital got up to leave, he told Christie to make sure her husband -- now with eyes taped shut and tubes protruding from his face -- showed up for his court date, or else he'd be arrested.

    Scott's office conducted its own internal investigation of Nick Christie's death and, perhaps not surprisingly, found no wrongdoing on the part of any Lee County deputy. That conclusion may come back to bite the county. Municipalities have what's known as sovereign immunity from civil lawsuits. But one way to get around sovereign immunity in a civil rights case is to show that a government agency has displayed a pattern or practice of improperly training employees about citizens' rights. Since using pepper spray on a restrained inmate and neglecting to get him medical attention are both clearly established civil rights violations, in concluding that none of his officers acted outside of department policy, Scott may have given DiCello an opening.

    And in fact, none of the deputies involved with Christie's death were disciplined in any way. Florida State Attorney Stephen Russell declined to press criminal charges. DiCello says that Russell's review was based almost entirely on the sheriff's department report. Samantha Syoen, communications director for Russell's office, says the investigation did use much of the sheriff department's investigation, but that the possible bias of that report was taken into consideration when deciding whether or not to pursue criminal charges. "We've prosecuted police officers before." Syoen says. "We've prosecuted judges, we've even prosecuted our own."

    Syoen says the state attorney's office didn't clear the deputies involved with Christie's death, it only determined that under Florida law there wasn't enough evidence for criminal charges.

    "Our office was very concerned about what happened to Mr. Christie," she said. "But the memo concluded that this would be a matter better settled at the federal level, either with possible criminal charges or with a lawsuit."

    According to DiCello, the office of U.S. Attorney Robert O'Neill has yet to show any interest in the case. (O'Neill's office referred HuffPost to the FBI's Fort Myers regional office. That office did not return HuffPost's request for comment.)

    Joyce Christie returned to Girard, Ohio shortly after Nick, her husband of 40 years, had died. A few days after she returned, she received something in the mail from Lee County, Florida. It was a warrant for her husband's arrest.

  21. #20

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    Syoen says the state attorney's office didn't clear the deputies involved with Christie's death, it only determined that under Florida law there wasn't enough evidence for criminal charges.
    Seems like when it comes to the states trustees there is NEVER any evidence to be charged with a crime. Unlike the rest of us convicts. Yes, convicts. Doesn't matter how large the prison. Just that you are in it.
    Last edited by phill4paul; 03-17-2012 at 02:31 PM.
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  22. #21
    Needs a bigger boat Anti Federalist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Seems like when it comes to the states trustees there is NEVER any evidence to be charged with a crime. Unlike the rest of us convicts. Yes, convicts. Doesn't matter how long your leash is only that you are on it.
    Trustee and Convict.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Trustee and Convict.
    That is the truth of it. Doesn't matter if it is a 24 sq. ft. prison cell or a 3.79 million mile one. If I wish to leave it I have to have permission from, and the door unlocked, by a trustee.
    Last edited by phill4paul; 03-17-2012 at 03:05 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    This is real life,,

    That's the one^^ Thanks, pete.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    This whole board is a thoughtcrime in progress.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    That is, sadly, not how it goes down in real life.

    I've posted a number of stories over the years where cops show up after the fact at the scene and firemen and/or EMTs have tried to get them to back off and they arrest them.
    You may have stories, while I have been involved directly in these situations, and have never been arrested in "real life." I've been an EMT for two years and have been involved in situations where cops are indeed the second to arrive in an emergency medical situation, following paramedics and EMT's. On calls where the patient is inebriated or under the influence, however vomiting or at risk of falling (or have already fallen), sometimes cops need to be reminded first and foremost this is our speciality. When it seems the patient is not only just a risk to themselves, but others (including EMS), then they can intervene. But EMT's usually make those calls, at least on the calls I have been on.

    Regardless, I would risk arrest if I truly believed my patient's life was in danger - that's the oath I swore by. And if I am ever arrested for standing up for a patient, job well done.

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  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nirvikalpa View Post
    Regardless, I would risk arrest if I truly believed my patient's life was in danger - that's the oath I swore by. And if I am ever arrested for standing up for a patient, job well done.
    Best of luck (not a snark I really mean it). Make sure you have on hand the codes that deliver site command into your hand over those of L.E. I find it hard to believe that there are any. In a kids game a pair of scissors may win out over dynamite but even a piece of paper won't win in that instance.
    Last edited by phill4paul; 03-17-2012 at 04:03 PM.
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  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nirvikalpa View Post
    You may have stories, while I have been involved directly in these situations, and have never been arrested in "real life." I've been an EMT for two years and have been involved in situations where cops are indeed the second to arrive in an emergency medical situation, following paramedics and EMT's. On calls where the patient is inebriated or under the influence, however vomiting or at risk of falling (or have already fallen), sometimes cops need to be reminded first and foremost this is our specialty. When it seems the patient is not only just a risk to themselves, but others (including EMS), then they can intervene. But EMT's usually make those calls, at least on the calls I have been on.

    Regardless, I would risk arrest if I truly believed my patient's life was in danger - that's the oath I swore by. And if I am ever arrested for standing up for a patient, job well done.
    When I was a cop, we knew our place lol. In my small department, we ran on pretty much everything; however, once the EMT's got there, it was your show.
    Indianensis Universitatis Alumnus

  28. #27

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    You seing your family member being assaulted... would you do this?


    “One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).
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    Needs a bigger boat Anti Federalist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nirvikalpa View Post
    sometimes cops need to be reminded first and foremost this is our speciality

    Regardless, I would risk arrest if I truly believed my patient's life was in danger - that's the oath I swore by. And if I am ever arrested for standing up for a patient, job well done.
    No snark at all, I commend you, but there will come a time that you will run across Officer Friendly who is not going to listen to the orders of some EMT mundane.

    When that happens, I will be the first in line to bail you out.
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  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    No snark at all, I commend you, but there will come a time that you will run across Officer Friendly who is not going to listen to the orders of some EMT mundane.

    When that happens, I will be the first in line to bail you out.
    Cops need to stay the hell out of medical business whenever possible. We had very basic first aid, CPR, and AED training. Cops have no business interfering with emergency medical personnel. Furthermore, they need to stay out of people's business unless there is an actual crime against person.
    Indianensis Universitatis Alumnus

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    No snark at all, I commend you, but there will come a time that you will run across Officer Friendly who is not going to listen to the orders of some EMT mundane.

    When that happens, I will be the first in line to bail you out.
    Unfortunately I can attest to that... my ex is a paramedic and while on a call for a car accident, a male involved was exhibiting signs of head trauma - acting belligerent and combative, and the medics were trying to assess his condition before loading him into the ambulance (my ex being one of them). Where I used to live, there are a lot of accidents involving mountain pass roads, wildlife collisions, etc, so the medics were used to this. The two RCMP officers on scene though started to intervene and said that the man appeared to be intoxicated and THEY would have to check him out and give a breathalyser, etc. One officer physically moved a medic out of the way and the patient got very combative and the other officer came forward to move him onto his side and fasten handcuffs. Both medics were irate and arguing and were told that they would be arrested next if they did not back off. It was a tough night because it's a small area and these RCMP and medics all know each other and hang out together all day while waiting for calls - not to mention my ex's mom is the RCMP's secretary in that district). It took a fire fighter on the scene to scream at the top of his lungs for the RCMP to stop immediately (he is a big huge man and very loud and he got their attention), and allow the medics to continue their assessment.

    Turned out in the end that the man had no alcohol in his blood at all and had suffered a pretty major concussion in the accident - hence acting irate and combative and disoriented. But the police had handcuffed him and moved one medic away by force before he was finally allowed to be loaded into the ambulance (with one RCMP tagging along inside). If something had happened to that man, or he got physical with the officers himself (some patients with head traumas have punched and bitten medics and have no memory of the incident, or do remember but it's totally out of character for them to do such things) - things could have been a whole lot worse. It took the very loud bellows of yet another service member to stop the incident and get it back on track with medical assessment FIRST, cops back off.
    Last edited by kezt777; 03-17-2012 at 08:26 PM.

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