Help North Dakota ABOLISH THE PROPERTY TAX

[Steven Douglas]

North Dakota uses the following logo for their state tourism ad campaign:

I think it's a great logo, one that may be quite fitting, because as many of you know, North Dakota may become "Truly Legendary", as the first state to finally abolish the property tax once and for all, and make property ownership a sovereign right, and not a conditional privilege, with property forever held for ransom by government.

California passed Prop 13, but left that property tax camel's nose squarely in the tent. It did not go far enough, and what a disaster California is, with idiot detractors actually blaming Prop 13 for many of the state's woes, with no mention or criticism of the spend-happy fools in state government who are always the problem, and never the solution.

North Dakota is the ONE state now poised to pave the way for the rest - a single haven from perpetual rent payments - where property actually can be owned once it is paid for, without government holding ultimate title your land, your property, and the rent you must pay on any improvements you make.

I'm not just posting this as a matter of general interest here. I feel very passionately about this, and I'm actually asking for help on what I think a matter of deep principle that affects us all. The property tax is the most hated tax of all, and for very good reasons, as it is also the most unfair and abused tax of all, and the only tax that doesn't take into account one's ability to pay. At the very least, I am asking my friends here, and for those interested in seeing this become a really to help spread the word.


Like their Facebook page - post your support. You can take it off your personal wall after if you want, but give them a boost - show your support.



Like their YouTube videos, like this one:



Join their brand new forum, post links to their pages on other forums and in article comments - anything to help them spread the word.

Become a subscriber to their updates (from their front page).

Just enter your name and email address, and click Subscribe.



North Dakota is extremely conservative by national standards. Even the Democrats there are the more fiscally conservative "Blue Dog Democrat" types. So Measure 2 already has a great deal of natural groundswell support. But the opposition to M2 is fierce - led by two huge organizations slopping from the property tax trough from the left and the (supposed) right: The NEA (both ND and national) and the ND Chamber of Commerce (state only).

The fear-mongering lengths to which the opponents go, including outright lying about the measure, is astounding. And the media itself is, predictably, complicit. Not so much anti-M2, as that would make them unpopular with too many - but more of a "sweep it under the rug" kind of complicity, those in favor are simply ignored, but those against are given lots of attention.

The opposition group has a sizable war chest, and promises for more funding, all determined to defeat Measure 2 at all costs. The Empower group has no big funding at all to speak of. Theirs is more the "lives, fortunes and sacred honor" type funding - all personal, so ANY contribution (of ANY amount) you can make will be put to good use.

I firmly believe that helping North Dakotans in any way we can, is a way of paving the way to help ourselves.

[Travlyr]

This is a great effort. North Dakota is leading the charge to freedom.

[JohnLVT]

This dude, Robert Hale, is saying that all property taxes "and" income taxes can be abolished. I haven't figured out how he figures it out. How does he get the money to pay for community services. Does it fall from the sky? Will the army and police walk around bars with collection boxes to fund these essential services?

In the remote chance he has, it will not stop land speculation which created two world-wide crashes in 1929 and 2008. In fact he will promote harmful land speculation.

He is a superficial thinker.

[JohnLVT]

This is a great effort. North Dakota is leading the charge to freedom.

Freedom for land speculators to bring down the economy again. Wow! Amazing.

[Steven Douglas]

This dude, Robert Hale, is saying that all property taxes "and" income taxes can be abolished. I haven't figured out how he figures it out. How does he get thw money to pay for community services.Doe it fall from the sky? Will the army and police walk around bars with collection boxes to fund these essential services?

First off, you can deep-six all the explicitly geolib/geoist propaganda in this thread, as we already have too many of those polluting and cluttering this forum. Don't clutter this thread with it - it's not your platform, not your opportunity to go off topic with your inane LVT ideas - which are already being debated elsewhere, and have their place - in other words, you are way out of line.

As for replacement of revenue, you could just read the site material for yourself, rather than act like you just fell from the sky yourself. In North Dakota, the state has multiple revenue streams - almost thirty of them in place, and the state dictates everyone of them - how they are collected, and how they are to be spent. The majority of local services are ALREADY paid for by those other streams.

Furthermore, North Dakota has already increased their rate of spending to multiples of CPI and personal income - they have a surplus, NONE of which is used to give property tax relief, and they have a big pork spending problem to boot. The amount that it takes to replace property tax revenue could easily come just from the pork that should not have been prioritized and spent in the first place. What Measure does is prioritize that spending. The legislature must first pay for local needs - and CANNOT condition the spending. Only afterward can it decide what pork goodies to divvy out. The difference is that it will be transparent - they won't be able to distance themselves from the perception that they had anything to do with property taxes, even though that is ENTIRELY dictated by the state - what mill rates can or must be levied, the minimums and maximums that apply, and how they are to be spent at the local level. And then they get to hide behind this, as if it's "local control", and only because the property is local, and the taxes are locally collected.




Again, STOW the geolibertarian dogma - this not your thread for that.

[KMX]

Any jobs in ND?? I love more freedoms!! I might join the Lakota if nothing pans out LOL 4 real

[Steven Douglas]

Any jobs in ND?? I love more freedoms!! I might join the Lakota if nothing pans out LOL 4 real

ND is FULL OF JOBS. Some of the lowest unemployment in the country. And you're not alone - I know MANY people (including yours truly) who would move to North Dakota IN A HEARTBEAT if they knew they could actually OWN their property, their land, and not have to rent from government what they've already paid for.

That's the one of the biggest arguments in favor of M2. A haven for capital flight from the rest of the country, as North Dakota becomes ONE BIG ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ZONE IN THE USA! Not too hard to sell both people and industries on coming to ND with a selling point like that.

Right now the ND Chamber of Commerce is FIERCELY opposed to this. And why? Because not only are they on the public dole, receiving public money and tax abatements (exemptions) for themselves, but they also get to play good-cop/bad-cop, as they go to bat for their favorite darling special interests, getting them tax breaks and public funds. Passage of Measure 2 means that they wouldn't have any more favoritism and free vacations to sell.

[KMX]

Only bad thing is I hate the COLD!

[Steven Douglas]

Only bad thing is I hate the COLD!

It's not so bad for me, I like four seasons, but all the paradise and great climate lands are overrun by the fiscally insane - turning up the heat, so to speak, making the bitter cold look like a Kincaid painting by comparison.

[JohnLVT]

ND is FULL OF JOBS. Some of the lowest unemployment in the country. And you're not alone - I know MANY people (including yours truly) who would move to North Dakota IN A HEARTBEAT if they knew they could actually OWN their property, their land, and not have to rent from government what they've already paid for.

Is that what they do there? You buy a place and then pay them rent as well?