Fiction Book - Need Ideas - What if the Fed never came into being?

[ThomJohn]

Hey everyone,
I am pondering writing an alternate history diesel punk type story and I have come here in search of inspiration. So I ask you, fellow forum-goers:

What would the world be like if the efforts to create the Federal Reserve had been stopped?

Mainly try to think of what that would have meant for the next 30-40 years. I don't want my story's setting to be too modern and certainly not futuristic. Unless of course that means diesel-powered hovercrafts (like in the link). 'Cuz those would be ballin'.

My alternate world would also be defined by a few other differences, such as maybe WWII not even happening, or happening in a completely different way. Thank you all in advance—and please go crazy elaborate! Anything to get my creative juices flowing.

[Black Flag]

What difference?

Instead of FRN it would be "United States Notes" ... which were printed up to 1932, and the last one destroyed in 1970.

It really doesn't matter who prints the money - the consequences would be the same.

At least with bankers, they have some skin in the game, unlike the politicians who come and go every 4 or so years.

[specsaregood]

unlike the politicians who come and go every 4 or so years.

The incumbent reelection rate is in the high 90's% range.

[Travlyr]

Equality would be the order of the day based on effort rather than privilege.

The Alexis de Tocqueville Tour - Exploring Democracy in America - 1830's

"AMONG the novel objects that attracted my attention during my stay in the United States, nothing struck me more forcibly than the general equality of condition among the people." - Alexis de Tocqueville

Liberty would be enjoyed everywhere.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnDj...eature=related

Peace would be enjoyed by all.


The Federal Reserve System's elastic currency funds wars for profit, tyranny for control, and privileged elite class vs. working class.

[BuddyRey]

How aboot this?

Point of divergence: Instead of reaching the Jekyll Island meeting in 1912, Paul Warburg's private train car is derailed and Warburg is killed.

Lacking the driving financial and intellectual force behind their conspiracy to create the Fed, the Jekyll Island crew disbands, with plans to reconvene sometime during 1915. However, their plans are complicated by the election of Louis T. McFadden to Congress in 1914. McFadden vows to fight the Central Bank to his last breath, and spends his next several terms doing so, first as a popular Freshman rep, and then even more forcefully as Chairman of the Banking and Currency Committee.

1929 passes by uneventfully, with no Stock Market Crash and hence, no Great Depression. The Roaring '20s become the Roaring '30s. Banking elites have continually failed to convince American voters of the Federal Reserve's necessity, thanks in large part to the tireless public appeals by Congressman McFadden on American radio, and later, on television (which, due to an uninterrupted period of prosperity, becomes a staple of middle-class homes a decade-and-a-half sooner than in our own timeline).

By 1932, McFadden is so loved and renowned for his courage in the face of the banking interests that his fiery and impassioned endorsement of a second term for Calvin Coolidge (and the ouster of incumbent Herbert Hoover) goes over with thunderous applause at the Republican convention. Former President Coolidge, heretofore ambivalent and perhaps even hostile to previous draft efforts, is moved to great inspiration by McFadden's words, and wearily acquiesces to public demand, on the condition that McFadden will serve as his Secretary of the Treasury.

Coolidge wins nomination handily over the profligate and wildly unpopular Herbert Hoover, and goes on to eek out a narrow victory against Franklin D. Roosevelt. Coolidge becomes only the second man in American history to be elected to two non-consecutive Presidential terms (the first being Grover Cleveland).

Sadly, the victory is short lived. President-Elect Coolidge is felled by a sudden and fatal heart attack two months before his Inauguration, sparking widespread panic and civil unrest. The shock of national tragedy is so great that Congress forestalls ratifying the 20th Amendment (which, ironically, pertains to the Presidential Line of Succession in the event of the death of the President-Elect).

That's all I can think of for now (mostly because I don't know what would have happened if a President-Elect died before the 20th was ratified). But I'll do a bit of research and hopefully throw some more ideas out there!

[NoOneButPaul]

We probably wouldn't have been able to win WW2.

No one wants to think about that but it's probably true, and I only bring it up because it makes for a good fiction story...

A world where America stayed out of WW2.

[ThomJohn]

WHOA BuddyRey, that is a lot to think about! Thank you very much. I'll respond more later, but you gave me an idea for a working title:

"The Roaring 30's"

[BuddyRey]

WHOA BuddyRey, that is a lot to think about! Thank you very much.

No problemo! Alternate history is a passion of mine and I love coming up with these hypothetical timelines!

If there's a "fair" way to do it, I'm trying to devise a way that America could have stayed out of WWI. Maybe McFadden and his sympathizers discover that Wilson is conspiring with the banking cartel and they begin impeachment proceedings on grounds of conspiracy. That way, no Versailles Treaty (at least none with American involvement) would have devastated the German economy. Weimar-era Marks could have retained their worth, preventing the hyperinflationary period which, coupled with resentment over war reparations, brought Hitler to power in our own timeline.

[BuddyRey]

By the way, if you like to gain inspiration from other great works of alternate history writing with libertarian themes, I *strongly* recommend "The Probability Broach" by L. Neil Smith. Awesome book!

[Black Flag]

We probably wouldn't have been able to win WW2.

No one wants to think about that but it's probably true, and I only bring it up because it makes for a good fiction story...

A world where America stayed out of WW2.

Actually, out of WW1....

Yeah, that would have been good.

WW1 will be know today as the beginning of the end of Western Civilization.... and without US entry into the war, it is likely the War Powers would have come to an armistice, and withdrawn to the original borders - no rise of Communism or Nationalism - no rise of Nation State....

[The Gold Standard]

We probably wouldn't have been able to win WW2.

Why not? Was the Fed building tanks and bombs? Were Fed officials overseas being fired upon?

[Black Flag]

Why not? Was the Fed building tanks and bombs? Were Fed officials overseas being fired upon?

Couldn't pay for the tanks and bombs.

[Black Flag]

You have to remember WW2,

Massive inflation due to huge government loans from the FED buying US T-bills, so wage and price controls were in place, resulting in massive shortages making rationing a requirement.

Taxes were as high as 98% in the top bracket.

[The Gold Standard]

Couldn't pay for the tanks and bombs.

Was the printer out of order at the Treasury? Or was the government opposed to forcing people to work in the factories? They weren't opposed to forcing people go fight the war. They weren't opposed to determining every other aspect of people's lives during the war.

[Black Flag]

Was the printer out of order at the Treasury?

The printing plate was changed to print T-bills instead of "United States Notes" back in 1932.

Or was the government opposed to forcing people to work in the factories?

Government didn't force any one to work, except via the draft into the Armed Forces

They weren't opposed to forcing people go fight the war.

Nope

They weren't opposed to determining every other aspect of people's lives during the war.

Nope, except those in the military.

[The Gold Standard]

The printing plate was changed to print T-bills instead of "United States Notes" back in 1932.

Government didn't force any one to work, except via the draft into the Armed Forces

I'm sure they could have dug up the old plate if they didn't have the Fed to print the money. And the government didn't force people to work, but they certainly believed they could have if necessary. The idea that the U.S. couldn't have won the second world war without the Fed is incorrect. That is the point I was arguing.

[BuddyRey]

I think I blew out some of my circuits with earlier posts. I'm completely mentally blocked now. But it'd be good to keep this bumped.

[Travlyr]

I think I blew out some of my circuits with earlier posts. I'm completely mentally blocked now. But it'd be good to keep this bumped.

Keep after it. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post4260300

Nice work indeed!

[BuddyRey]

Keep after it. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post4260300

Nice work indeed!

Thanks, Travlyr! I will!

I'm currently asking a few Internet eggheads for an answer to my 20th Amendment question. Once I get that, I can go to town!

[Black Flag]

I'm sure they could have dug up the old plate if they didn't have the Fed to print the money. And the government didn't force people to work, but they certainly believed they could have if necessary. The idea that the U.S. couldn't have won the second world war without the Fed is incorrect. That is the point I was arguing.

Well, let's consider WW1 - which we are still paying for.....

WW1 had the gold standard, and it was heavily inflated by all the war powers to a degree it bankrupted Germany and almost took down the British Empire.

The US as well, even for its short time at war, suffered the inflation of the printing press ... and remember, there was no FRN.

To forestall the post-war economic collapse, the FED artificially lowered interest rates and created the Roaring 20's.... masking the economic disaster of the war.

This came to a head in 29 with the crash.

The cost of the war plus the cost of the boom created the greatest depression in modern history.

In attempt to recover, FDR took the nation off of the gold and substituted the FRN - though unintentional, made paying for WW2 a lot easier.

[Black Flag]

Thanks, Travlyr! I will!

I'm currently asking a few Internet eggheads for an answer to my 20th Amendment question. Once I get that, I can go to town!

What's the question?

[BuddyRey]

What's the question?

I'm wondering what the standard legal procedure was, in the event of the death of a President-Elect, before the ratification of the 20th Amendment. I'm not sure if the party would have to nominate somebody else to run in a Special Election, or if the VP became the de facto President, as happens now.

[oyarde]

Out of WW1 ? Then maybe the effects from the killer flu would have been less ??

[oyarde]

Well, let's consider WW1 - which we are still paying for.....

WW1 had the gold standard, and it was heavily inflated by all the war powers to a degree it bankrupted Germany and almost took down the British Empire.

The US as well, even for its short time at war, suffered the inflation of the printing press ... and remember, there was no FRN.

To forestall the post-war economic collapse, the FED artificially lowered interest rates and created the Roaring 20's.... masking the economic disaster of the war.

This came to a head in 29 with the crash.

The cost of the war plus the cost of the boom created the greatest depression in modern history.

In attempt to recover, FDR took the nation off of the gold and substituted the FRN - though unintentional, made paying for WW2 a lot easier.

Not really , this one is worse using only employment numbers , there were 5 people for every job then , six now ....

[BuddyRey]

Out of WW1 ? Then maybe the effects from the killer flu would have been less ??

Good point! We lost some great people to that pandemic (Randolph Bourne, for example). Hard to even conceptualize how different history might have turned out without it.

[The Gold Standard]

Well, let's consider WW1 - which we are still paying for.....

WW1 had the gold standard, and it was heavily inflated by all the war powers to a degree it bankrupted Germany and almost took down the British Empire.

The US as well, even for its short time at war, suffered the inflation of the printing press ... and remember, there was no FRN.

To forestall the post-war economic collapse, the FED artificially lowered interest rates and created the Roaring 20's.... masking the economic disaster of the war.

This came to a head in 29 with the crash.

The cost of the war plus the cost of the boom created the greatest depression in modern history.

In attempt to recover, FDR took the nation off of the gold and substituted the FRN - though unintentional, made paying for WW2 a lot easier.

The WWI inflation led to the crash in 1920. The Fed responded by doing nothing and the government cut spending in half, and by 1922 the economy was roaring again. People don't remember there was a depression in 1920 because the government sponsored history books don't like the solutions that worked to get us out of that depression.

They didn't start ramping up the inflation and lowering interest rates until the mid 20s (for various reasons, read Rothbard's American's Great Depression for some great info), which blew up the bubble that burst in 1929.

[Black Flag]

I'm wondering what the standard legal procedure was, in the event of the death of a President-Elect, before the ratification of the 20th Amendment. I'm not sure if the party would have to nominate somebody else to run in a Special Election, or if the VP became the de facto President, as happens now.

Oh an easy question! (rolleyes)... LoL

[Black Flag]

The WWI inflation led to the crash in 1920. The Fed responded by doing nothing and the government cut spending in half, and by 1922 the economy was roaring again. People don't remember there was a depression in 1920 because the government sponsored history books don't like the solutions that worked to get us out of that depression.

They didn't start ramping up the inflation and lowering interest rates until the mid 20s (for various reasons, read Rothbard's American's Great Depression for some great info), which blew up the bubble that burst in 1929.

Good point about the 20's crash....

[BuddyRey]

Oh an easy question! (rolleyes)... LoL

Yeah, it probably is. Truth be told, I haven't bothered to study many of the Amendments after the 10th. So, could you give me a clue?

[Shorty Dawkins]

We probably wouldn't have been able to win WW2.

No one wants to think about that but it's probably true, and I only bring it up because it makes for a good fiction story...

A world where America stayed out of WW2.

Americans, such as Prescott Bush, supported Hitler's rise to power, financially. If they had been stopped, well, things would have been a whole lot different. You are assuming WWII would still have happened. It might not have.

Shorty Dawkins