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Thread: Israel is only Mideast state safe for Christians, envoy to U.S. says

  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuicyG View Post
    Nope.

    Christians are persecuted in places like Iran and Egypt.

    In Iran they are killed if they convert to Christianity from Islam.

    In Egypt, which used to be Christian country,
    You really have a one track hate-mongering mind don't you.

    Egypt was a Christian nation? When was that exactly?
    Oh, and there are a lot more countries in the Middle East. Though the wars are displacing them and a lot of hate is being introduced where people once lived peaceably together.
    And when did I ever say Christians are not persecuted elsewhere???
    Ah,, that's right,, I never said that.

    You are really flaunting your ignorance.. or perhaps just trolling.
    Last edited by pcosmar; 03-11-2012 at 06:29 PM.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  3. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    You really have a one track hate-mongering mind don't you.

    Egypt was a Christian nation? When was that exactly?
    Oh, and there are a lot more countries in the Middle East. Though the wars are displacing them and a lot of hate is being introduced where people once lived peaceably together.
    And when did I ever say Christians are not persecuted elsewhere???
    Ah,, that's right,, I never said that.

    You are really flaunting your ignorance.. or perhaps just trolling.
    Go back and please watch the Hamas video I`ve posted

    Regarding Christianity in Egypt, you might find this interesting:

    Christianity was the majority religion during the 4th to 6th centuries AD and until the Muslim conquest of Egypt
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copts
    Let`s get Ron Paul into top 10 to generate headlines. We need more people.

    "What does not kill me, makes me stronger."
    - Friedrich Nietzsche, philosopher (1844-1900), Twilight of the Idols

    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
    - Arthur Schopenhauer, philosopher (1788 - 1860)

    https://twitter.com/#!/JuicyGrabs

  4. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExPatPaki View Post
    Oh ya, Iran is always firing drones into the houses of Christians. I mean just last week they bombed a Christian funeral.
    Oh yeah! i think i saw that on foxnews.
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Snowden;
    So its, I would say; illustrative that the president would choose to say, "someone should face the music" when he knows the music is a show trial.

  5. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuicyG View Post
    Go back and please watch the Hamas video I`ve posted
    It is just amazing we still keep giving 3 billion dollars in aid every year to a country that created that anti-Christian group, isn't it?

    To avoid typing again, link:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post4249794

  6. #65

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    I really didn't think this would be a debatable issue.

    On a related note, have few questions about legal rights for Palestinian/Arab race Christians in Israel. If they are generaqlly safe with occasional intimidation/harrassment from Israeli settlers or legally a second class citizens in Israel, won't UAE be a safer place for Christians in mideast than Israel despite recent violent freedom "crusades" into mideast engineered by war itching neocons?


    1- Do Palestinian/Arab Christians have same rights as Jews in Israel today?

    2- Can a Palestinian/Arab race Christian man marry a Jewish girl inside Israel or they are banned from doing so?

    http://www.google.com/search?q=arab+...1&spell=1&sa=X

    http://www.google.com/search?q=arab+...=1&sa=N&tab=iw


    http://www.google.com/search?q=vigil...1&spell=1&sa=X

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...b+muslim&gbv=1


    3- Can Palestinian/Arab Christians freely celeberate Christmas in Israel with Christmas trees at shopping malls and public places without fear?


    http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isc...ae%20christmas

    http://www.google.com/search?q=israe...ource=hp&gbv=1


    Freedom of religion in the United Arab Emirates

    The Constitution of the United Arab Emirates provides for freedom of religion in accordance with established customs, and the government generally respects this right in practice; however, there were some restrictions. The federal Constitution declares that Islam is the official religion of the country. There were no reports of societal abuses or discrimination based on religious belief or practice.


    4- Syria/Jordan opened their doors for hundreds of thousands of Iraqi Christians who fled Iraq freedom violence after we liberated it and handed it over to an Iran supported orthodox religious group, did Israel open its doors to even a single Iraqi Christian refugee when they most need refuge?

    5- Iraq's last foreign minister was a Christian, Christians held high positions in PLO before Isreal created Hamas to weaken PLO. Behrain has minorities in high positions, its envoy to US is Jewish. US is a Christian majority nation with a Chriatian President Obama, about half or more than one third of his cabinet is Jewish. How many Christians are in current Israeli cabinet considering that we have "shared values"?

    6. If current Christian President of US Barack Hussein Obama had moved to Israel instead of the White House few years ago, how would he have been treated by average Israeli as a Christian man? Granted, they probably don't have violent extremists like Andrew Adler of Atlanta there, would he have been safe near religious settlers?

    Last edited by moderate libertarian; 03-11-2012 at 08:23 PM.

  7. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by moderate libertarian View Post
    It is just amazing we still keep giving 3 billion dollars in aid every year to a country that created that anti-Christian group, isn't it?

    To avoid typing again, link:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post4249794
    US gives lots of billions in aid to Palestinian authority, to Egypt and Pakistan. What that Hamas video shows is that tolerance throughout Islamic world is pretty low for both Jews and Christians.

    And btw, Hamas is Iran`s tool, sponsored and armed by Iran. Iran is directly responsible for the crap you`ve seen in that video.
    Last edited by JuicyG; 03-12-2012 at 05:39 AM.
    Let`s get Ron Paul into top 10 to generate headlines. We need more people.

    "What does not kill me, makes me stronger."
    - Friedrich Nietzsche, philosopher (1844-1900), Twilight of the Idols

    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
    - Arthur Schopenhauer, philosopher (1788 - 1860)

    https://twitter.com/#!/JuicyGrabs

  8. #67
    Lone Coyote ClydeCoulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackTerrel View Post
    More Christians leave Iran then immigrate to Iran.
    Maybe that's because we are posted on Iran's doorstep with great big guns and sanctions?

  9. #68

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    What people also seem to forget that Hamas regularly bombs Christian homes and funerals through drones.
    You cannot support Israel without hating and wishing genocide upon Muslims

  10. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuicyG View Post
    US gives lots of billions in aid to Palestinian authority, to Egypt and Pakistan. What that Hamas video shows is that tolerance throughout Islamic world is pretty low for both Jews and Christians.

    And btw, Hamas is Iran`s tool, sponsored and armed by Iran. Iran is directly responsible for the crap you`ve seen in that video.
    So do you think that American soldiers should die while invading Iran? Do you think that Americans should foot the bill to keep Israel "safe?"
    Well, I got Rand started on his campaign (just search around here to see). I advised Thomas Massie before he ran for Congress. I am currently advising 2 liberty campaigns for the state legislature. I ran the war-room and won Minnesota for Ron Paul a few weeks back. There are other things I'm probably forgetting.
    Yet I can't afford $200 to go to a seminar--Matt Collins

  11. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kluge View Post
    So do you think that American soldiers should die while invading Iran? Do you think that Americans should foot the bill to keep Israel "safe?"
    No, I don`t think they should. I think they should stay away and instead invest and focus on developing alternative energy sources.

    It won`t happen though because oil companies like Exxon need access to those oil fields. Currently Iranian oil is extracted by Iranians. Oil costs maybe 20$(or less) to extract and it`s sold for 120$. Huge profit margins for oil companies.
    Also, if American oil companies get access to oil, it would also help secure a very low price for oil in the US. In a sadistic way oil wars help keep gas prices extremely low in the US.

    Oil wars have nothing to do with Israel.
    Last edited by JuicyG; 03-12-2012 at 07:37 AM.
    Let`s get Ron Paul into top 10 to generate headlines. We need more people.

    "What does not kill me, makes me stronger."
    - Friedrich Nietzsche, philosopher (1844-1900), Twilight of the Idols

    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
    - Arthur Schopenhauer, philosopher (1788 - 1860)

    https://twitter.com/#!/JuicyGrabs

  12. #71
    Lone Coyote ClydeCoulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuicyG View Post
    Oil wars have nothing to do with Israel.
    Maybe not, but Bibi and the neocons are selling the wars as having to do with Israel.

  13. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClydeCoulter View Post
    Maybe not, but Bibi and the neocons are selling the wars as having to do with Israel.
    US wanted to attack Iran since the days of George Bush but generals didn`t give the green light.

    US will attack Iran regardless of what Israel does or wants, it`s just that Obama wants to do it after the elections. Messing up with the oil price now will skyrocket prices on all consumer goods and make him look bad, throwing people into the arms of GOP.

    The western oil companies need to be there sucking that oil. That Iranian revolution failed after CIA invested lots of money into it. Another one will most likely come after Syria falls and will wipe out current regime and install some US/Western friendly one. This will be done regardless of Israel`s fear of nukes, just that Israel wants to go at it alone already and feels that it can`t wait as Iran`s getting close to developing nukes.

    Here is an interesting article from DieWelt, a German newspaper: http://www.welt.de/debatte/article13...ne-Israel.html
    Google translation : http://translate.google.com/translat...ne-Israel.html

    Title reads: US to attack Iran without consulting with Israel

    Of course they always have to find some justification to present to the people because just saying "you twats need to stfu as you all want cheap oil prices and cheap goods and this is how we get it to you" just won`t work. People need to be pampered like babies with BS propaganda.

    In this case, however US and Israel wants two different things. Israel wants Iranian nuclear program stopped asap and US wants a regime change to gain control of the oil fields.
    Obama is trying to persuade Israel that they should wait for a regime change on which US is already working on in Syria, building momentum towards a major Iranian revolution backed by outside forces and NATO no fly zones. Obama wants to make the major push after the elections are over though.
    Let`s get Ron Paul into top 10 to generate headlines. We need more people.

    "What does not kill me, makes me stronger."
    - Friedrich Nietzsche, philosopher (1844-1900), Twilight of the Idols

    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
    - Arthur Schopenhauer, philosopher (1788 - 1860)

    https://twitter.com/#!/JuicyGrabs

  14. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuicyG View Post

    In this case, however US and Israel wants two different things.
    It has nothing to do with what the US or Israel want. They are both abstract Governmental entities.
    They have neither wants nor needs.

    And they both do as they are told. The Rothschild Empire controls both.
    The Rothschild family controls the Empire.
    It is about what they want.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  15. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    It has nothing to do with what the US or Israel want. They are both abstract Governmental entities.
    They have neither wants nor needs.

    And they both do as they are told. The Rothschild Empire controls both.
    The Rothschild family controls the Empire.
    It is about what they want.
    Last edited by JuicyG; 03-12-2012 at 08:56 AM.
    Let`s get Ron Paul into top 10 to generate headlines. We need more people.

    "What does not kill me, makes me stronger."
    - Friedrich Nietzsche, philosopher (1844-1900), Twilight of the Idols

    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
    - Arthur Schopenhauer, philosopher (1788 - 1860)

    https://twitter.com/#!/JuicyGrabs

  16. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    It has nothing to do with what the US or Israel want. They are both abstract Governmental entities.
    They have neither wants nor needs.

    And they both do as they are told. The Rothschild Empire controls both.
    The Rothschild family controls the Empire.
    It is about what they want.
    Fine... I`ll indulge you in your paranoid fantasy.

    Explain to me how come George Bush denied Israel a weapon sale. If there`s some grand conspiracy and they`re in this together, why mess with each other?

    During the administration of former U.S. President George Bush, the U.S. refused to sell bunker-penetrating bombs and refueling aircrafts to Israel, as a result of American estimates that Israel would then use them to strike Iran's nuclear facilities.
    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...-says-1.416900
    Last edited by JuicyG; 03-12-2012 at 09:13 AM.
    Let`s get Ron Paul into top 10 to generate headlines. We need more people.

    "What does not kill me, makes me stronger."
    - Friedrich Nietzsche, philosopher (1844-1900), Twilight of the Idols

    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
    - Arthur Schopenhauer, philosopher (1788 - 1860)

    https://twitter.com/#!/JuicyGrabs

  17. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuicyG View Post
    Fine... I`ll indulge you in your paranoid fantasy.
    There is nothing Paranoid about it. I have no fear.

    It is a simple factual reality. Known and documented. They are the creators of fractional reserve banking.They own the money,

    They have financed and backed both sides of the last world wars for their own purposes. They are pushing this one as well.
    They own the Banks,, they own the media. They are the puppet masters.

    All roads lead to the Rothschilds.
    Last edited by pcosmar; 03-12-2012 at 09:15 AM.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  18. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuicyG View Post
    Fine... I`ll indulge you in your paranoid fantasy.

    Explain to me how come George Bush denied Israel a weapon sale. If there`s some grand conspiracy and they`re in this together, why mess with each other?

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...-says-1.416900
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    There is nothing Paranoid about it. I have no fear.

    It is a simple factual reality. Known and documented. They are the creators of fractional reserve banking.They own the money,

    They have financed and backed both sides of the last world wars for their own purposes. They are pushing this one as well.
    They own the Banks,, they own the media. They are the puppet masters.

    Then please explain to me why Bush refused Israel that weapon sale.
    Let`s get Ron Paul into top 10 to generate headlines. We need more people.

    "What does not kill me, makes me stronger."
    - Friedrich Nietzsche, philosopher (1844-1900), Twilight of the Idols

    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
    - Arthur Schopenhauer, philosopher (1788 - 1860)

    https://twitter.com/#!/JuicyGrabs

  19. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuicyG View Post
    Then please explain to me why Bush refused Israel that weapon sale.
    Bush is irrelevant. For that matter,, I have no idea if they did or didn't.
    It is equally possible that story is a lie and smokescreen.

    I expect that Israel got it's Nukes from the US,, but doubt that would be admitted.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  20. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    I expect that Israel got it's Nukes from the US,, but doubt that would be admitted.
    The british gave them their first few. It was prior to the NPT. Course the british probably got them from us....
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Snowden;
    So its, I would say; illustrative that the president would choose to say, "someone should face the music" when he knows the music is a show trial.

  21. #80
    Lone Coyote ClydeCoulter's Avatar
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    JuicyG, perhaps you are getting into too much of the details. There are large schemes, and the large scale schemers use greedy bastards because they are easy to control. Dangle the money/power carrot in front of the greedy bastards and they follow. Large scale schemers move in large chess moves, little schemers scheme for themselves and are much more predictable if you know the inside scoop.

  22. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExPatPaki View Post
    What people also seem to forget that Hamas regularly bombs Christian homes and funerals through drones.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ExPatPaki again.

    And I see most people have just glossed over the most important fact in the OP. If Israel is such a haven for Christians, why didn't it open its arms for the Iraqi Chaldean Christians? In fact why didn't the U.S. open ITS arms? We're worried about some pastor in Iran, and yet hundreds of thousands of Christian fled Iraq thanks to our stupid war and overthrow of a government friendly to Christians and we as a nation have done nothing to help them!
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  23. #82
    Lone Coyote ClydeCoulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ExPatPaki again.

    And I see most people have just glossed over the most important fact in the OP. If Israel is such a haven for Christians, why didn't it open its arms for the Iraqi Chaldean Christians? In fact why didn't the U.S. open ITS arms? We're worried about some pastor in Iran, and yet hundreds of thousands of Christian fled Iraq thanks to our stupid war and overthrow of a government friendly to Christians and we as a nation have done nothing to help them!
    ^this
    +rep ExPatPaki on jmdrake's behalf.

  24. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ExPatPaki again.

    And I see most people have just glossed over the most important fact in the OP. If Israel is such a haven for Christians, why didn't it open its arms for the Iraqi Chaldean Christians?
    This is reaching at straws. There is more Christian immigration to Israel than away from it. But you're talking about a county of single digit millions. They don't exactly have the capacity to accept hundreds of thousands of refugees every year. I think the OP's point was that Israel is not safe for Christians. All the facts point that he is wrong but those appear to be irrelevant.

    In fact why didn't the U.S. open ITS arms? We're worried about some pastor in Iran, and yet hundreds of thousands of Christian fled Iraq thanks to our stupid war and overthrow of a government friendly to Christians and we as a nation have done nothing to help them!
    The US should do more. I agree. That is why it is important to bring attention to these issues. But when I do - you and others ignore it. Yes the US should do more to help these people and take them in.

    As it is there are a million Arab Christians in the US (I know a few of them) and we've recently taken in tens of thousands of Egyptian refugees.
    Ron Paul: "For those who have asked, I freely confess that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, and that I seek His guidance in all that I do."

  25. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackTerrel View Post
    All the facts point that he is wrong
    Maybe in your deluded mind, but not in reality.
    You cannot support Israel without hating and wishing genocide upon Muslims

  26. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExPatPaki View Post
    Maybe in your deluded mind, but not in reality.
    Thank you for your fine debating skills.
    Ron Paul: "For those who have asked, I freely confess that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, and that I seek His guidance in all that I do."

  27. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackTerrel View Post
    I think the OP's point was that Israel is not safe for Christians. All the facts point that he is wrong but those appear to be irrelevant.

    I think OP point was that Israel is an apartheid and treats arab race Cristians and Muslims as second class residents.

  28. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by moderate libertarian View Post
    I think OP point was that Israel is an apartheid and treats arab race Cristians and Muslims as second class residents.
    Do you agree or disagree that Israel is safe for Christians?

    Your original post included a video where a big boobed Israeli chick made fun of a monkey and called him Jesus and told him not to eat toblerone as well as racist graffiti on a Church. Not the most relevant information.
    Ron Paul: "For those who have asked, I freely confess that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, and that I seek His guidance in all that I do."

  29. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackTerrel View Post
    Thank you for your fine debating skills.
    No, thank you for being an intellectual midget.
    You cannot support Israel without hating and wishing genocide upon Muslims

  30. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackTerrel View Post
    Do you agree or disagree that Israel is safe for Christians?
    Let me answer your question with a question, were Christians of all races safe in South Africa of past few decades?

    How could you misread a simple statement on which this discussion is based:

    Israel is only Mideast state safe for Christians, envoy to U.S. says
    Do you not agree that that is BS?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackTerrel View Post
    Your original post included a video where a big boobed Israeli chick made fun of a monkey and called him Jesus and told him not to eat toblerone as well as racist graffiti on a Church. Not the most relevant information.
    No, OP contains a video from Ron Paul with this statement:

    He forgot to mention that to weaken nationalist, secular Arafat (whose wife was a Christian woman), Israel created Hamas

    What exactly are you trying to argue here? Do you agree or disagree with Israeli envoy's statement cited in OP?

  31. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by moderate libertarian View Post
    Let me answer your question with a question, were Christians of all races safe in South Africa of past few decades?
    Yes. BTW what are the laws in Israel that are equal to the laws of apartheid South Africa. What rights do Arabs not have in Israel?

    How could you misread a simple statement on which this discussion is based:



    Do you not agree that that is BS?
    Yes Israel is only mideast country safe for Christians.

    No, OP contains a video from Ron Paul with this statement:
    That doesn't change the facts of the present.

    What exactly are you trying to argue here? Do you agree or disagree with Israeli envoy's statement cited in OP?
    I agree. Could you outline the evidence of why it isn't true.
    Ron Paul: "For those who have asked, I freely confess that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, and that I seek His guidance in all that I do."

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