This is just too good. We have two guys complimenting each other and the best part is they're actually the same troll!!
I can't wait for the third part of the Troly Trinity to show up (JuicyG) and enlighten us on the wonders of a Zionist version of LVT.
You are very confused. You need to get your thoughts structured.Originally Posted by Steven Douglas
Ah something sensible at last. LVT will stabilize land prices. It will make land cheaper and more can be spent on the building meanING affordable, quality homes.The poor spend more on housing than any other expense.
It is apparent you know nothing of urban living. In the centre of cities people need to be stacked. It also creates, attractive vibrant districts.
LVT will dissipate people from city hot spots and alleviate housing overheating. Dave Wetzel expains that here. The other guy is a clear knob.
To be fair I don't think that Georgist want to eat everyone, just the rich...
Ron Paul: He irritates more idiots in fewer words than any American politician ever.
NO MORE LIARS! Ron Paul 2012
When all else fails in a debate, try direct commands eh?.
Maybe you can just completely bypass that entire pesky critical thinking function that most people use to separate sense from non-sense and just tell them what to believe.
I think the technique works better with the spoken word though, writing it out like you do just makes it sound stupid.
And before you come back with some childish reply about me...
If I were really smart I wouldn't be wasting my time...
Ron Paul: He irritates more idiots in fewer words than any American politician ever.
NO MORE LIARS! Ron Paul 2012
This indicates you have no idea of what Geoism is about. In the USA 1% of the pop'n have more wealth than the bottom 90%. If you think that is normal and desirable for a society then you are a saddo. That indicates there is a systemic failure - no economist in their right mind would agree that an economy is a success with figures like that.
So, we need to wipe it away and get a real system that works retaining the positive aspects of Capitalism - an unrigged free-market. Geoism give that. Geoism does not penalize the rich as enterprise is promoted, as LVT has proven in Hong Kong, etc. Henry George said, "What I stand for is the equal rights of all men." The Single Tax will make people richer, that is all of us.
George observed (as did others like Marx), that in an era of rapid technological progress and mass production, a belt of grinding poverty remained. It is still with us today in all western societies. George brilliantly hit upon LVT, although others did way before him. This will distribute the proceeds of the production of a society more fairly and simultaneously expand the economy so all are richer.
Last edited by JohnLVT; 03-11-2012 at 07:17 AM.
Transcript, "based" on Fred Harrison with Max Keiser:
The Forbidden Knowledge
The forbidden knowledge in economics is the land market. There is nothing magical about this. Data about the western European economy, tells us that trends repeat every 18 years without fail. Looking at the land market you can see how the heath of the economy is progressing. From this information the turning points in the business cycle can be pinpointed.
The Boom - Bust Cycle
The boom bust cycle is programmed into the politics. It used to be a monarchical system, aristocracies economy now it is semi-democratic. The underlying factors are still the same. The best gains are out of LAND, not the stock market, not out of anything else. Over the business cycle the highest capital gains are out of land. That is the secret.
The way the market is structured at the present time we definitely get a boom after 15 years into the cycle and then a bust because debt is created to over exploit that market and the economy has to come to dip. It has happened every 18 years for the past 200 to 300 years.
Socialized LAND and Privatized WAGES.
The socialisation of LAND is recovering for the community the value we collectively create. Changing the taxes by abolishing taxes on earnings and the profits from the investments from our savings. Privatise the wealth that we create. Let people keep what they produce. Collect from the public sector that shared revenue that is chrysalises in the land market as land values, we use that to pay for public services. That's resocialising what used to be the public revenue and privatising people's wages.
There is an Anglo-American phenomenon, unlike the Germans who do not view their homes as their castles and invest in productive activities. The US and UK culture is to regard their house as their castle and their homes as a nest egg/pension fund.
Political Problem
It is a political problem. They found that when the Liberal government introduced a land value based tax 100 years ago the House of Lords simply rejected any attempt at reform.
That culture of making money out of nothing, just by occupying a little bit of land, has seeded through into the democratic system. The UK even has shop workers who have portfolios of buy-to-let properties to make money out of nothing. It is a political problem to inform them that it is against their interests. There hasn't been the political or moral strength of our statesmen for 100 years to change that corrupt method of distributing income.
All Become Richer When Taxes Are Raised From Land Values
In the USA they would be collectively better off by $100s billions per year to share out amongst the population if they made the tax shift from taxing wages and raising revenue from land values. That become an incentive. Everyone becomes richer. In the Tony Blair administration the nation lost wealth and welfare to the tune of one years worth of national income. That pays for a lot of hospitals and schools. Wages would be higher. It takes moral courage by the stewards of our system of government. The people would listen and once informed they would want to make the change.
Taxing Land Values Give Sustainable Economics
If we want a sustainable system of economics and want to be able to compete with the Far East on an equal footing over the next business cycle, the only option is to shift taxes off wages and onto the "values" of land. What that would mean? It would mean is that the factory gate products of western Europe would become more affordable in global markets. Without this tax shift, our goods will continually to be undercut by cheap labour produced goods in the Far East.
This future is not sustainable. This is what the G20 economies have driven Europe and North America into. A situation of crisis were we will not be able to compete, unless there is a change to the cost structure. The only way we can do that is to implement this tax shift.
Governments have been abysmal in looking after the interests of the advanced countries. They have exposed Europe and North America to a Far Eastern economy that is going to gobble up most of us. We may be in the doldrums for the next 20 years, because our governments have tried to inflate us out of this depression by the very mechanism that brought us into it in the first place. Debt was the way to maintain living standards, not by producing goods that are of any value but by borrowing and spending.
That is exactly what governments are still doing, piling debt on debt. They have socialised the private debt of land speculators, putting the burden onto future tax payers. What does that mean to the rest of the business cycle? It means the European and North American economies are not fit for purpose. The G20 economies have failed abysmally to take care of their nations.
Doldrums Will Continue
The economy will be in the doldrums for about 10 years, as the Japanese economy in the 1990s and European and North American in the 1930. Some will make money by latching onto the forbidden knowledge that predicts the trends, but for the rest of us there will be a decline in living standards and lot of unemployment.
Last edited by JohnLVT; 03-11-2012 at 10:48 AM.
Uh oh.
Well, perhaps some of those LVT bucks can be used for a reeducation camp for me when the time comes. Then I might say "l got my mind right, boss."
Yeah, nothing quite so affordable as land and a home that is paid for, rent free, tax free, and unencumbered by banks, liberals, or gnashing teethed mass-manipulating progressives in geoist clothing.Ah something sensible at last. LVT will stabilize land prices. It will make land cheaper and more can be spent on the building meanING affordable, quality homes.
And screw "stabilizing" land prices. They need to be DEstabilized. As in, made cheaper because it's not artificially scarce by anyone. Public or private. Go away from the fantasy madness of the large inner cities, and into the more spread out rural areas, and price stabilization becomes a natural reality with no LVT'ers sniffing around trying to get it into an artificial collectivist concentrate.
Really? Well, I don't know if I know anything about urban living, but I have lived in the centers of Shanghai, Beijing, Vancouver, Santiago, Hong Kong, Manhatten, Boston and San Francisco, among other place. If those count for anything. I've also lived in their non-bipolar opposites, in the more rural areas. As for your opinion on urban aesthetics, the great pyramids were really attractive too. So were many southern slave plantations. But that's really irrelevant to the principles we're talking about.It is apparent you know nothing of urban living. In the centre of cities people need to be stacked. It also creates, attractive vibrant districts.
Yeah, in a Sweep The Less Fortunate Human Debris To The Outskirts sort of "dissipating" way. Nothing makes a city beautiful like getting rid of ugly people (the "less productive hands" according to Roy L. - as if everyone needed to answer to the state for their productivity).LVT will dissipate people from city hot spots and alleviate housing overheating.
Last edited by Steven Douglas; 03-11-2012 at 09:21 AM.
Pay attention at the back! You like boom & busts? Wow! Land prices will stabilize and gradually drop. Get it? I doubt it
Said the statist anti-libertarian dude who doesn`t believe in free markets. You are the troll on this forum.
What`s your obsession with the word "Zionist" by the way? You`re clearly in much pain for some reason.
Last edited by JuicyG; 03-11-2012 at 10:12 AM.
Let`s get Ron Paul into top 10 to generate headlines. We need more people.
"What does not kill me, makes me stronger."
- Friedrich Nietzsche, philosopher (1844-1900), Twilight of the Idols
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
- Arthur Schopenhauer, philosopher (1788 - 1860)
https://twitter.com/#!/JuicyGrabs
So funny watching JohnLVT shift around in his seat as he fails to offer any substantive critique of Rothbard, and then display that he isn't only ignorant of economics, but ignorant about the contemporary influences of modern economics by positing that the Austrians have had influence on contemporary economists which has brought about the business cycle. It's so cute to watch you fail so hard at offering a substantive critique and then display your ignorance at a whole new level. Keep pushing your dead, worthless idea that would raise ZERO revenue and do unprecedented economic damage. At least when George was pushing it there wasn't a Rothbard to critique him, but watching followers dogmatically attach themselves to the idea and failing to conjure up a substantive critique to the greatest counter to the idea of the LVT is quite amusing. You're in your own little world, aren't you?
Mr. Reasonable JohnLVT can't even offer a substantive critique of the raving-mad Rothbard. One would think it was easy given JohnLVT's disposition towards Rothbard, but JohnLVT is hopeless and displays that he has been defeated by Rothbard by going into ad hominem attacks and offering nothing. He even tries to switch the issue from the critique towards Austrian economics in general. Have fun bumbling around this thread displaying your worthless ideas, persuading nobody. You couldn't be any more unpersuasive than you already are, and you couldn't display any lack of scholarship that you haven't already put on display.
Max Keiser interviews Scott Baker, Senior Editor of OpEdNews.com.
http://www.OpEdNews.com
Max Kieser, summing up Geoism...
"real free-market Capitalism where risks and
rewards are evenly distributed and you don't
have this aggregation of concentration in banking
terrorists, who invariably go down to Washington
with that wealth to change laws which makes it
easier to steal more money"
1st...
2nd...
Last edited by JohnLVT; 03-11-2012 at 02:41 PM.
Can you provide us with ANY examples of a situation where having a tax on something stablized its price?
Of course we could try to adjust the tax to control demand of real estate- if prices are rising we could jack up the tax rate to try to lower demand and keep the prices from going up. We would probably have to do that anyways if the prices went down so we could keep the same revenue stream coming into the government.
Last edited by Zippyjuan; 03-11-2012 at 02:58 PM.
Denmark had LVT for near 4 years. Land prices rose but were stable in comarisosn to the economic growth that occurred. But....After LVT was dropped. In 1964:
- The currency surplus became a currency deficit.
- The annual deficit on the balance of payments in 1972 was 3 billion kr.
- Debts abroad amount today to 20,000 million kr.
- The effective rate of interest has been doubled.
- Land prices jumped sky-high. Denmark's overall land value rose from 17 billion kr. at the assessment of 1960 to 67 billion in 1969, and reached 100 billion at the next assessment in 1973.
- Rents in new housing are six fold those of 1964.
- The rate of inflation rose from barely 1 per cent to 5-7 per cent and was 8.6 per cent in 1965, the year after repeal of the land tax law in 1964.
- Taxes have risen again and again and are today five times higher.
LVT is not a tax. It is reclaiming community created wealth. Very different to levying anything else.
1) It's not logical to come to a conclusion on a complex matter using only one variable. 2) "Communities" do not create wealth. Individuals acting in their own self-interest (or by coercion) do.
Everyone understands that. What YOU don't understand is that such government activities are inefficient and does not raise the value of the land. (it actually creates a liability for everyone-especially considering the overpriced and poor quality of standard government projects)
Governments spend our tax money on infrastructure, such as: Schools Universities Hospitals Rail networks Roads This infrastructure raises the productivity of the economy resulting in economic growth. Because of the way the market economy works, those economic gains are crystallised as land values. Then these gains surface as windfalls or capital gains in the property market.
Those capital gains are not shared out equally amongst all of us,
Understand the above - immediately above. That is a start for you. Get the basics. Then talk about covered wagons.
Statist? That's why I'm anti-tax, right?
Anti-free market? That's why I said I don't believe in "public services" and prefer voluntary contracts and personal responbility instead...
Edit: you need to learn how to use an apostrophe. What you're usin isn't one. This is an apostrophe: '. This is what you're using: `
Last edited by eduardo89; 03-11-2012 at 03:30 PM.
I tell ya, it's the Troly Trinity: JuicyG, RoyL and JohnLVT
What are you talking about? I never called anyone evil or stupid. You`re way out of line. Alter-ego? I think you`re tripping on paranoid delusions.
You can have a healthy debate with people who don`t agree with you. Some of the people here seem to think you need to be in full agreement with someone to be able to get along.
Last edited by JuicyG; 03-11-2012 at 03:54 PM.
Let`s get Ron Paul into top 10 to generate headlines. We need more people.
"What does not kill me, makes me stronger."
- Friedrich Nietzsche, philosopher (1844-1900), Twilight of the Idols
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
- Arthur Schopenhauer, philosopher (1788 - 1860)
https://twitter.com/#!/JuicyGrabs
You need to get yourself a girlfriend or wife(as you might prefer) because you`re trolling here with nonsense 24/7.
Let`s get Ron Paul into top 10 to generate headlines. We need more people.
"What does not kill me, makes me stronger."
- Friedrich Nietzsche, philosopher (1844-1900), Twilight of the Idols
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
- Arthur Schopenhauer, philosopher (1788 - 1860)
https://twitter.com/#!/JuicyGrabs
You behave uncannily like Roy L and JohnLVT. It is my hypothesis that all these accounts are held by one person with too much time on his hands, and Eduardo agrees.
I can, but you and your sock puppet accounts-not so much.
Only oneEduardo is married with rugrats. He and I are only here to troll the trolls.
She had her first birthday party today, ate cake for the first time. LOVED it. I'll post the video on fb so you can see it lol
Your accusations make you look like a complete paranoid individual. Eduardo agrees with you simply because he`s part of your conspiracy fan club. If someone doesn`t agree with you, then it must be something evil about it.
You and Eduardo are spewing anti-jewish crap on this forum. You are the ones who are out of place and give Paul a bad name.
You can check my posts on economic issues and you`ll see why you`re totally off. I`d feel embarrased if I were you.
Last edited by JuicyG; 03-11-2012 at 04:05 PM.
Let`s get Ron Paul into top 10 to generate headlines. We need more people.
"What does not kill me, makes me stronger."
- Friedrich Nietzsche, philosopher (1844-1900), Twilight of the Idols
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
- Arthur Schopenhauer, philosopher (1788 - 1860)
https://twitter.com/#!/JuicyGrabs
sorry, didn't mean to make it plural.Only one
She had her first birthday party today, ate cake for the first time. LOVED it. I'll post the video on fb so you can see it lolI made a bad.
lolz. No, I'm not paranoid. I've just dealt with enough annoying trolls with dupe accounts that they're pretty easy to spot.I'd be embarrassed to be you considering your gross illogic and ignorance. And what's this "anti-jewish" nonsense you speak of? $#@! off. Some of the most admired people around here are jews-Rothbard, Mises, etc.
You are very paranoid making retarded observations. Don`t tell me to $#@! off as you`re the one who needs to get his head checked.lolz. No, I'm not paranoid. I've just dealt with enough annoying trolls with dupe accounts that they're pretty easy to spot.
Your argument with Rothbard and Mises is useless. Marx was Jewish and yet Stalin and many other communists were anti-jewish. It`s a hollow argument.
Last edited by JuicyG; 03-11-2012 at 04:12 PM.
Let`s get Ron Paul into top 10 to generate headlines. We need more people.
"What does not kill me, makes me stronger."
- Friedrich Nietzsche, philosopher (1844-1900), Twilight of the Idols
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
- Arthur Schopenhauer, philosopher (1788 - 1860)
https://twitter.com/#!/JuicyGrabs
Haha anti-jewish?
I'm a Christian, so obviously I believe Judaism to not be the true faith, otherwise I'd be a Jew. That said, I respect and admire the Jewish people, just don't agree with them theologically.
I'm anti-Zionist and anti-Israel, that's for sure. I don't approve of any state or ideology that promotes one class of people, whether it be based on race, religion or ethnicity over others, as Zionism and Israel do in practice.
I admire many Jewish people, I think Mises was one of the most brilliant minds in economics, I admire Stanley Kubrick, I love Walter Block's writings, my longest relationship was with a Jewish girl...yeah, I'm extremely anti-Jewish...
Nice ad hominem, but still incorrect.
Useless? No. Your claim that Eduardo and I are "anti-jew" is hollow and unfounded. (I'm fully in favor of letting Israelis take care of their own business so they no longer have to suckle at the teat of Western welfare) Take your BS accusations and shove them deep up your ass, troll.
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