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Thread: Why are we supposed to be against the Koch Brothers again?

  1. #31
    Member sgt150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Again, Dr. Paul did not feel that way, or he wouldn't have been hosting educational lunches on economics for years on end.
    Yeah, he's been educating people toward his version of libertarianism so beltway libertarianism can be put down for good.
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  3. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgt150 View Post
    Yeah, he's been educating people toward his version of libertarianism so beltway libertarianism can be put down for good.
    That's right and it needs to continue. By SOMEONE. Thus, my initial comment about wishing the Mises Institute had a presence in D.C.
    I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,
    he acknowledged, but "eventually, if you want to bring about changes what you have to do is participate in political
    action.
    -- Ron Paul


    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% the same on issues." "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." --Ron Paul

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=pB5JgzBVHN0

    The Property Basis of Rights

  4. #33

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    Ron could drop by once in a while, stay at Rand's apartment LOL and help with the luncheons. Of course, if he's at the WH, he can help get someone else started since he's in town.

  5. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    That's right and it needs to continue. By SOMEONE. Thus, my initial comment about wishing the Mises Institute had a presence in D.C.
    That's where LvMI was until Lew and crew decided to move to Auburn.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Perhaps the most important lesson from Obamacare is that while liberty is lost incrementally, it cannot be regained incrementally. The federal leviathan continues its steady growth; sometimes boldly and sometimes quietly. Obamacare is just the latest example, but make no mistake: the statists are winning. So advocates of liberty must reject incremental approaches and fight boldly for bedrock principles.
    The epitome of libertarian populism

  6. #35
    Member dbill27's Avatar
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    One of the koch brothers ran on the libertarian ticket as vp in the 80's. They're platform at the time included eliminating the federal reserve, CIA, FDA, DEA, and the EPA among other things. So, they can't be all bad.
    "Look, the American people have chosen to have a fiat money standard because they want a welfare state. You cannot have a gold standard and a welfare state at the same time. You have to make the choice. We have made a decision as a society that well be dealing with the welfare state." -Alan Greenspan

  7. #36
    Member sgt150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbill27 View Post
    One of the koch brothers ran on the libertarian ticket as vp in the 80's. They're platform at the time included eliminating the federal reserve, CIA, FDA, DEA, and the EPA among other things. So, they can't be all bad.
    They've since abandoned those views to become establishment whores.

    That's right and it needs to continue. By SOMEONE. Thus, my initial comment about wishing the Mises Institute had a presence in D.C.
    Why do they have to be in D.C. to spread liberty? We can fund liberty candidates throughout the country without having a presence in that cesspool
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  8. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zatch View Post
    Serious question.

    They fund FreedomWorks, Reason Foundation, Cato Institute, Institute for Justice. Not sure why we're supposed to be against them exactly. Seems like Lew Rockwell just hates them because they aren't anarchists.

    [Oops...meant to post this in General Politics. If mod sees this please move it there.]
    FreedomWorls founder was a pro Palestinian-ethnic-cleansing, notorious racist if I'm not mistaken.
    Kochies don't seem much better either.

    http://alexbkane.wordpress.com/2010/...-islamophobia/

    Koch Brothers Also Funding Islamophobia

    Now, more has emerged about the Koch brothers’ agenda, and it’s not just limited to advocating for “drastically lower personal and corporate taxes, minimal social services for the needy, and much less oversight of industry—especially environmental regulation.” An investigation by CounterPunch‘s Pam Martens has revealed that “a secretive libertarian nonprofit with ties to Charles Koch bankrolled what was widely perceived to be a fear mongering effort to throw the Presidential election to Senator John McCain in 2008.”

    The “fear mongering effort” in question was the documentary “Obsession: Radical Islam’s War Against the West,” which was distributed to millions of people in “swing states” around the country in the run-up to the 2008 presidential election through corporate newspapers. The documentary has been condemned as anti-Muslim, and features interviews with notorious Islamophobes such as Steven Emerson, Daniel Pipes and Caroline Glick.

    Not sure of they are hardcore pimps of war/occupation lobbies but look like suspected neocons.
    Last edited by moderate libertarian; 04-01-2012 at 06:56 AM.

  9. #38

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    ..
    Last edited by pcgame; 05-21-2012 at 02:06 PM.

  10. #39

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    I love Reason, and I think CATO is tremendous. I also love LRC, and think I LvMI is tremendous.

    You're lying to yourself if you think Reason and CATO never put out really great, Liberty-oriented pieces. They may have released some pieces that you dislike, but they're definitely trying to move things in the right direction.

  11. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    I can't blame them for playing the system...
    That's the way I feel about it If you want to play a game, you will lose if you don't play using the same rules that everybody else does. The liberals detest them, so I consider them any ally.
    .[QUOTE]"Every great new thought was opposed. Every great new invention was denounced. The first motor was considered foolish. The airplane was considered impossible. The power loom was considered vicious. Anesthesia was considered sinful. But the men of unborrowed vision went ahead. They fought, they suffered and they paid. But they won." - Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead[/QUOTE]
    ..
    .

    I blog at Red State Eclectic, and I tweet here,.

  12. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Simple answer. The Koch brothers are crony-capitalists.
    How so?
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  13. #42
    Member sgt150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankRep View Post
    How so?
    Look at the politicians they support. Also, their betrayal of Austrian Economics
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  14. #43

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    The Koch brothers have always just seemed motivated by money, not ideology, to me. They spend like $20M a year lobbying the federal government to reduce regulations and increase tax breaks, but generally do so for the industries in which they are invested. Combine that with a less than stellar record on economics and occasional questionable articles/support from the think tanks they support and you can see why people are uneasy.

  15. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom in NYC View Post
    The Koch brothers have always just seemed motivated by money, not ideology, to me. They spend like $20M a year lobbying the federal government to reduce regulations and increase tax breaks, but generally do so for the industries in which they are invested. Combine that with a less than stellar record on economics and occasional questionable articles/support from the think tanks they support and you can see why people are uneasy.
    Wait. Reduced regulations and increased tax breaks are a bad thing?
    ----

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  16. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankRep View Post
    Wait. Reduced regulations and increased tax breaks are a bad thing?
    You left off the last part: but generally do so for the industries in which they are invested. General tax breaks are good. Targeted tax breaks can lead to malinvestment. That said I don't know enough about the Koch brothers to know if that is indeed their strategy.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Eze 22:25 There's a conspiracy of prophets within her....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.

  17. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    General tax breaks are good. Targeted tax breaks can lead to malinvestment.
    This.

  18. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Grey View Post
    This.
    Except, targeted tax breaks are in themselves a malinvestment with all good intentions aside.

  19. #48

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    btw, there's some interesting info about Cato at the Cato Unhinged blog- http://catounhinged.blogspot.com/
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    The government is incapable of doing what it's supposed to do. A job like the provision of security is something best left to private institutions.
    My music/art page is here"government is the enemy of liberty"-RP
    That which doesn't kill me has made a grave tactical error
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    This whole board is a thoughtcrime in progress.
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    Quote Originally Posted by danke View Post
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  20. #49

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    It's easy to speak of liberty... It's not so easy to live up to it in the face of the machine (for 30 years nonetheless).
    The Kochs value liberty when it is convenient to them, just as any rational businessmen in their place would.
    Same with Reason, Cato, LP, etc. They talk a good game. Usually. But in the end liberty to them is nothing more than a cost/benefit analysis.
    And I think that is the central crisis we face with the new "rising stars" of the movement. Who can be trusted to truly be in it for liberty, and who sees a career first?
    Ron Paul truly is a rare bird in this respect... A leader like that doesn't just pop up every generation...

  21. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankRep View Post
    Wait. Reduced regulations and increased tax breaks are a bad thing?
    if it leads to outsourcing, unemployment, lower wages and more corporate power, yes, for some people.

  22. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by kuckfeynes View Post
    It's easy to speak of liberty... It's not so easy to live up to it in the face of the machine (for 30 years nonetheless).
    The Kochs value liberty when it is convenient to them, just as any rational businessmen in their place would.
    Same with Reason, Cato, LP, etc. They talk a good game. Usually. But in the end liberty to them is nothing more than a cost/benefit analysis.

    And I think that is the central crisis we face with the new "rising stars" of the movement. Who can be trusted to truly be in it for liberty, and who sees a career first?
    Ron Paul truly is a rare bird in this respect... A leader like that doesn't just pop up every generation...
    Exactly. So do many people here. Nothing wrong with that.

  23. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by onlyrp View Post
    Exactly. So do many people here. Nothing wrong with that.
    Yes there is. If you're only concerned about your own liberty you're being very myopic and naive. If others' liberty can be violated on a whim, yours will be next.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    The government is incapable of doing what it's supposed to do. A job like the provision of security is something best left to private institutions.
    My music/art page is here"government is the enemy of liberty"-RP
    That which doesn't kill me has made a grave tactical error
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    This whole board is a thoughtcrime in progress.
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    Quote Originally Posted by danke View Post
    I carry my man purse for fashion, not function.

  24. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Yes there is. If you're only concerned about your own liberty you're being very myopic and naive. If others' liberty can be violated on a whim, yours will be next.
    Tell that to the Koch brothers and NWO for me. I'm sure they're very concerned about that, then they'll fight for other people's liberties too.

  25. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    You left off the last part: but generally do so for the industries in which they are invested. General tax breaks are good. Targeted tax breaks can lead to malinvestment. That said I don't know enough about the Koch brothers to know if that is indeed their strategy.
    Tax breaks are good in my opinion.

    People invested in Oil want the government out of Oil, what a shocker!


    The Koch brothers used to be apart of the Libertarian party, but after getting 5% of the vote, they viewed it as a lost cause and decided to influence the GOP with the Americans for Prosperity, the Cato Institute, etc...


    =====


    Did you know? David Koch was a Libertarian Vice-Presidential candidate in 1980
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...didate-in-1980

    ----

    Ron Paul Forum's Mission Statement:

    Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this site is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.

  26. #55

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    David Koch on the Iraq War:


    He opposed the Iraq war, saying that the war has "cost a lot of money, and it's taken so many American lives". "I question whether that was the right thing to do. In hindsight that looks like it was not a good policy." he told an interviewer.


    SOURCE:
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/articl...html?nopager=1
    ----

    Ron Paul Forum's Mission Statement:

    Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this site is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.

  27. #56
    Needs a bigger boat Anti Federalist's Avatar
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    I saw a clip of David Koch on the "Starz Westerns" channel, on a filler show called the "Real West".

    He won an auction for an orginal photo of Billy the Kid for $2.1 million.

    I hate him just for that.

    /jk/
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 04-01-2012 at 08:14 PM.

  28. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankRep View Post
    Tax breaks are good in my opinion.
    I didn't say they were bad. I said targeted tax breaks can lead to malinvestment.

    People invested in Oil want the government out of Oil, what a shocker!
    Not a shocker at all. But here's the problem. Say if oil gets a tax break but coal does not or vice versa. Is it really good for the government to pick the winners and losers based on who has the best lobbyists?

    The Koch brothers used to be apart of the Libertarian party, but after getting 5% of the vote, they viewed it as a lost cause and decided to influence the GOP with the Americans for Prosperity, the Cato Institute, etc...


    =====


    Did you know? David Koch was a Libertarian Vice-Presidential candidate in 1980
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...didate-in-1980

    That's nice. But that has nothing to do with the point I made about targeted tax breaks. Did you know that 2004 libertarian presidential candidate Bob Barr endorsed Barack Obama's nomination of gun grabber Eric Holder as attorney general? I'm agnostic about the Koch brothers. But I have a problem with targeted tax breaks. Tax breaks should be across the board with the goal of getting them to zero.
    Last edited by jmdrake; 04-02-2012 at 01:03 PM.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Eze 22:25 There's a conspiracy of prophets within her....

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.

  29. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by onlyrp View Post
    They're our friends when they're anti-Obama, anti-tax, anti-global warming, anti-health care, and Tea Party. But they're our biggest enemies when they're neocons, anti-corporate tax, anti-OWS.
    What exactly makes them "neo-cons?" And shouldn't being opposed to corporate taxes and all other taxes be a good thing? I'm sure that Ron supports abolishing the corporate income tax, as he supports abolishing the entire IRS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    1 John 2:2

    He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

  30. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditional Conservative View Post
    What exactly makes them "neo-cons?" And shouldn't being opposed to corporate taxes and all other taxes be a good thing? I'm sure that Ron supports abolishing the corporate income tax, as he supports abolishing the entire IRS.
    onlyrp is banned. The Koch brothers are not neo-cons.
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    Inspired by US Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, this site is dedicated to facilitating grassroots initiatives that aim to restore a sovereign limited constitutional Republic based on the rule of law, states' rights and individual rights. We seek to enshrine the original intent of our Founders to foster respect for private property, seek justice, provide opportunity, and to secure individual liberty for ourselves and our posterity.

  31. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    General tax breaks are good. Targeted tax breaks can lead to malinvestment. That said I don't know enough about the Koch brothers to know if that is indeed their strategy.
    That's a fair point. But if we have to choose between getting some people lower taxes, or no people lower taxes, which should we pick?
    .[QUOTE]"Every great new thought was opposed. Every great new invention was denounced. The first motor was considered foolish. The airplane was considered impossible. The power loom was considered vicious. Anesthesia was considered sinful. But the men of unborrowed vision went ahead. They fought, they suffered and they paid. But they won." - Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead[/QUOTE]
    ..
    .

    I blog at Red State Eclectic, and I tweet here,.

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