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Thread: Looking to invest in precious metals, need advice

  1. #1

    Lightbulb Looking to invest in precious metals, need advice

    I’m thinking about starting to invest in precious metals and need some advice.

    Basically, I’m 21, run a small business, own a car outright, no debts and can easily pay my current load of bills with my income, but, rather than transferring “extra” income to my saving account every month, I tend to spend it on things that aren’t really necessary.

    Ultimately, I feel like I’m not working towards something long-term.

    So, I thought it would be smarter to start placing some of that extra income into a long-term investment plan, which involves me buying 1oz silver coins a few times a month and over time building a nice size stockpile without a large initial investment; I don’t have the savings to go drop thousands right now on much of anything.

    I've never owned precious metals, so I need some advice. Any info would help.

    Does anyone have an advice?
    Should I wait and see if silver drops?
    Is this a good or bad idea?
    And if good, where should I buy?
    Last edited by zHorns; 03-09-2012 at 09:45 AM.
    - zHorns
    Organizer of the Rise for Liberty Moneybomb.

    “We, as a group, now have a greater moral responsibility to act than those who live in ignorance. Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it.” - Ron Paul, Rally for the Republic



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  3. #2

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    Buy either 1 ounce silver American Eagles or 1 ounce gold coins/bars as you have cash flow to do so from either local coin stores (if they don't charge much more than the mark-up you would normally pay from APMEX) or better yet the same from private individuals.

    Always pay cash, never create paperwork, and pretend that you lost them in a boating accident.

    Precious metals are not an investment per se, but insurance against the unknown.

    Now if you get to the lucky point in life where you have enough cash and PMs stashed away that you feel foolish for holding any more, then you may need to start thinking of more normal investment strategies, like owning stocks in mining companies or such, but I've never been fortunate to be this rich and I never will be.

    When it comes time to sell/trade, again, private individuals, and no one else needs to ever know about it.

    I just wish I had more than the handful of old silver dimes to my name, then maybe my opinion would be worth something
    Ron Paul: He irritates more idiots in fewer words than any American politician ever.

    NO MORE LIARS! Ron Paul 2012

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamC View Post
    Buy either 1 ounce silver American Eagles or 1 ounce gold coins/bars as you have cash flow to do so from either local coin stores (if they don't charge much more than the mark-up you would normally pay from APMEX) or better yet the same from private individuals.

    Always pay cash, never create paperwork, and pretend that you lost them in a boating accident.

    Precious metals are not an investment per se, but insurance against the unknown.

    Now if you get to the lucky point in life where you have enough cash and PMs stashed away that you feel foolish for holding any more, then you may need to start thinking of more normal investment strategies, like owning stocks in mining companies or such, but I've never been fortunate to be this rich and I never will be.

    When it comes time to sell/trade, again, private individuals, and no one else needs to ever know about it.

    I just wish I had more than the handful of old silver dimes to my name, then maybe my opinion would be worth something
    I would think the endgame for all folks that buy metals, eventually is to exchange them for goods/services, either by cashing in or hoping when they themselves can be exchanged one day, correct?

    I mean, what's the point in investing in something that, if grows, you never exchange at some point?

    As for what I would use them for, I think I would only sell them if I needed to put a down payment on a house, buy a car or for insurance.

    I doubt I'll invest in gold, since the initial investment is so large. Silver would allow me to take $100-$150 a month and buy a few coins here and there without missing the money much and years down the road have a nice size insurance/savings if needed.

    Lastly, does anyone own copper? I would think the only downsize is storing them (size wise) versus what they're worth.
    Last edited by zHorns; 03-07-2012 at 09:32 AM.
    - zHorns
    Organizer of the Rise for Liberty Moneybomb.

    “We, as a group, now have a greater moral responsibility to act than those who live in ignorance. Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it.” - Ron Paul, Rally for the Republic

  5. #4

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    Nah, we just like them 'cause they're shiny

    But yes, when it comes time to sell/trade then do so to private individuals and don't talk about it, it's your business and your money.
    Ron Paul: He irritates more idiots in fewer words than any American politician ever.

    NO MORE LIARS! Ron Paul 2012

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamC View Post
    Nah, we just like them 'cause they're shiny

    But yes, when it comes time to sell/trade then do so to private individuals and don't talk about it, it's your business and your money.
    You talk a lot about keeping it on the down low, would you suggest I still insure them in case of loss (theft, fire, etc...)?
    - zHorns
    Organizer of the Rise for Liberty Moneybomb.

    “We, as a group, now have a greater moral responsibility to act than those who live in ignorance. Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it.” - Ron Paul, Rally for the Republic

  7. #6

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    an investment is a return on your money and a return of your money , everything else is a speculation.

    if any of your bills are long term and high interest rates , i would pay them off/down.

    i would never buy copper bars , i still think the thing to buy is junk silver ( pre 1965 dimes , quarters ) coins on ebay--- the price will be as close to

    spot as you can get , no dealer mark up --everyone knows them--hard to fake as is happening now with many silver/gold pieces.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by zHorns View Post
    You talk a lot about keeping it on the down low, would you suggest I still insure them in case of loss (theft, fire, etc...)?
    To me it's all about keeping some of your wealth out of paper and out of the knowledge of those who would steal it, legally or illegally.

    So no, just make sure to put it someplace fireproof and where no one will find it.

    Again, once you have enough wealth that this becomes absurd (and that level varies from person to person) then more transparent, taxed investments start making sense, but I've never had that much so take my advice for what it's worth.

    Not much
    Ron Paul: He irritates more idiots in fewer words than any American politician ever.

    NO MORE LIARS! Ron Paul 2012

  9. #8

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    First, answer this question:

    1. Why are you buying gold?
    What are you planning to do with the gold in the future?


    Usually the answer will be:
    Well, when things go bad, I will use the gold to buy the things I need.

    So, the real answer to your question of "what should I buy" is...

    Buy the things you will need when "things go bad" now, because if you wait until the day "things go bad" the price of those goods will blow through the roof, and you will pay a whole lot more for them.

    Buy those things now, at a discount compared to when "that day comes"

    Now, if the answer to that first question is different... please post your answer.

    PS;
    Here is an article to answer your primary question
    http://survivalblog.com/2012/03/buyi...-new-york.html
    Last edited by Black Flag; 03-07-2012 at 02:08 PM.

  10. #9

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    As far as selling it to buy things. I don't think, unless we have a collapse, that I would sell it to buy basic needs (food, water).

    I'm thinking long-term like retirement, down payment on a house, or general insurance. Honestly, I have trouble saving and believe the silver not only would be a nice opportunity to hopefully see growth over the years, but give me the insurance of having a hard asset.

    The only real asset, I own is my car.

    I rent an apartment and all my bill consist of general monthly expenses (water, electric, food, etc...)
    - zHorns
    Organizer of the Rise for Liberty Moneybomb.

    “We, as a group, now have a greater moral responsibility to act than those who live in ignorance. Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it.” - Ron Paul, Rally for the Republic

  11. #10

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    I'd go half junk silver and half silver ounces.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by zHorns View Post
    As far as selling it to buy things. I don't think, unless we have a collapse, that I would sell it to buy basic needs (food, water).

    I'm thinking long-term like retirement, down payment on a house, or general insurance. Honestly, I have trouble saving and believe the silver not only would be a nice opportunity to hopefully see growth over the years, but give me the insurance of having a hard asset.

    The only real asset, I own is my car.

    I rent an apartment and all my bill consist of general monthly expenses (water, electric, food, etc...)
    Your car isn't really an asset unless you are making more money with it than it costs you to operate it.

    Your small business is your best bet at getting wealthy, so long as it is turning a profit. If you can start, grow and sell businesses you can become wealthy.

    Another way is to buy houses in need of some repair below cost, living in them while fixing them, then selling them at a profit. Since you are young and single this is more feasible than if you had a family. Do this three-four times successfully over a few years and you can buy your own house for cash. Then buy and manage rental properties, if you have the skills to do so.

    Supposedly the above two ways are the most certain to get you rich should that be your goal. Even if you fail a few times so long as doing so doesn't leave you in debt it only takes once to win.
    Last edited by WilliamC; 03-07-2012 at 04:55 PM.
    Ron Paul: He irritates more idiots in fewer words than any American politician ever.

    NO MORE LIARS! Ron Paul 2012

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    I'd go half junk silver and half silver ounces.
    A couple questions about junk silver.

    The way I understand it is that pre-1965 you can get nickles, dimes and quarters that have 90%+ silver in them. So, instead of selling for face value, they're selling for the value of the silver contents. But, it remains illegal to melt them for metal, correct?

    Now, how would junk silver favor during hyper inflation, would folks want to trade goods/services for nickles, dimes and quarters for more than face value when it's illegal to melt and people are focused more on basic essentials?
    - zHorns
    Organizer of the Rise for Liberty Moneybomb.

    “We, as a group, now have a greater moral responsibility to act than those who live in ignorance. Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it.” - Ron Paul, Rally for the Republic

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by zHorns View Post
    A couple questions about junk silver.

    The way I understand it is that pre-1965 you can get nickles, dimes and quarters that have 90%+ silver in them. So, instead of selling for face value, they're selling for the value of the silver contents. But, it remains illegal to melt them for metal, correct?

    Now, how would junk silver favor during hyper inflation, would folks want to trade goods/services for nickles, dimes and quarters for more than face value when it's illegal to melt and people are focused more on basic essentials?
    Dimes, quarters, half-dollars and dollars were 90% silver prior to 1965, and half-dollars 40% silver to 1969, but not nickles unless you count the 1944 year when they were (I think) 35% silver due to nickle shortage of WWII.

    Of those only the 90% coins are worthwhile to hold, and only because they are so well recognized and are typically the 'cheapest' silver you can buy with regards to paying a premium above spot price.

    Also it's at least as easy to sell junk silver as it is American Eagles, and possibly easier than other forms of silver bullion, so there is that going for it too.

    But once you get a bit of it it is bulky, so there is some merit to saving up for the occasional gold ounce as well.
    Ron Paul: He irritates more idiots in fewer words than any American politician ever.

    NO MORE LIARS! Ron Paul 2012

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by zHorns View Post
    A couple questions about junk silver.

    The way I understand it is that pre-1965 you can get nickles, dimes and quarters that have 90%+ silver in them. So, instead of selling for face value, they're selling for the value of the silver contents. But, it remains illegal to melt them for metal, correct?

    Now, how would junk silver favor during hyper inflation, would folks want to trade goods/services for nickles, dimes and quarters for more than face value when it's illegal to melt and people are focused more on basic essentials?
    The reason I say to get some junk silver is that in case of hyperinflation or SHTF scenario, you can use them in every day payments. You're not going to use an ounce of silver to buy bread, but a dime will work fine. They hold their value and are easily recognizable.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    The reason I say to get some junk silver is that in case of hyperinflation or SHTF scenario, you can use them in every day payments. You're not going to use an ounce of silver to buy bread, but a dime will work fine. They hold their value and are easily recognizable.
    Good point.

    It's smart to thing about minor/micro transactions.

    1/2 ounce of silver is selling on APMEX for $18 a piece.

    What about grams of silver, if were talking about small exchanges, would that be better or worse than junk silver?
    Last edited by zHorns; 03-07-2012 at 05:04 PM.
    - zHorns
    Organizer of the Rise for Liberty Moneybomb.

    “We, as a group, now have a greater moral responsibility to act than those who live in ignorance. Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it.” - Ron Paul, Rally for the Republic

  17. #16

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    I'd go junk over fractional silver every time, too much markup on the latter.
    Ron Paul: He irritates more idiots in fewer words than any American politician ever.

    NO MORE LIARS! Ron Paul 2012

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by zHorns View Post
    Good point.

    It's smart to thing about minor/micro transactions.

    1/2 ounce of silver is selling on APMEX for $18 a piece.

    What a grams of silver, if were talking about small exchanges, would that be better or worse than junk silver?
    Thing is, no one knows what a gram of silver is. Everyone knows what a dime, quarter and half dollar are.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by zHorns View Post
    As far as selling it to buy things. I don't think, unless we have a collapse, that I would sell it to buy basic needs (food, water).
    Then do those things right now, with the money you would buy gold.

    There are ample resources to help with food/water storage etc.

    If you wait until a collapse, well, you will be a day late and a gold coin short, trust me.

    I'm thinking long-term like retirement
    Look up:
    John Schaub - "Building wealth one house at a time."

    Use this money to invest in rental property - knowing that people need a place to live, but will no longer be able to afford to buy a house.


    If you have a good credit rating this is possible - and if you have a poor credit rating but cash, you can partner with someone who has a great credit rating and little cash.

    Or, if you have little cash but a great credit rating, you can partner with someone who has cash.... you get the idea.

    The major purpose of metal (I will discuss silver vs gold in a bit) is to provide inter-generational wealth - that is, give your grandkids a big head start.

    I would suggest gold over silver.

    Rich buy gold, not silver.
    Central banks buy gold, not silver.

    Buy what the banks and the rich buy.

  20. #19

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    Thanks for the advice so far.

    Interesting bit about investing in rental properties.

    The only problem I have with gold is that I don't really have the funds to start buying it. Of course, the thought of getting 1/10 or 1/20 ounce coins could be the best strategy for now, along with buying 1/2 or 1 ounce silver coins, then some junk silver here and there.

    A few folks made a good point, that if hyper inflation happens that I won't be able to make micro transactions with 1 ounce silver coins or gold coins, so they suggest junk silver. The only problem is I worry a bit about the idea of exchanging money for lower valued money (face value).

    That something I'll have to overcome in my head.

    Also, I do worry about the prospects of folks still exchanging junk silver post-collapse or hyper inflation. I think the idea of exchanging any US based currency after the paper and current coins are basically worthless could worry folks (or at least me) when they go to exchange tangible goods for it. But, I guess the fact that it's silver contents are still valued at something will make it worth trading in the event an economic downturn, because I believe we would need some kind of post-currency to make facilitating trade easier.
    Last edited by zHorns; 03-07-2012 at 06:40 PM.
    - zHorns
    Organizer of the Rise for Liberty Moneybomb.

    “We, as a group, now have a greater moral responsibility to act than those who live in ignorance. Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it.” - Ron Paul, Rally for the Republic

  21. #20

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    I have a question? I was looking around at buying silver myself, but was wondering how easy it is to verify that what you have bought is legit. Would one need to purchase a set of scales in order to verify the weight of silver or gold in home, or are there certain sellers of bullion out there that are highly respected and to be trusted

  22. #21

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    I say this to all new PM investors/savers.

    If you cannot afford to buy gold in the 1/2 ounce weights or more - you have no business buying gold. That is, from a purely economic standpoint. The premiums on sub half ounce coins are massive.

    Buy silver if you cannot afford 1000$ (close at the moment) or more gold purchases.

    Quote Originally Posted by zHorns View Post
    Thanks for the advice so far.

    Interesting bit about investing in rental properties.

    The only problem I have with gold is that I don't really have the funds to start buying it. Of course, the thought of getting 1/10 or 1/20 ounce coins could be the best strategy for now, along with buying 1/2 or 1 ounce silver coins, then some junk silver here and there.

    A few folks made a good point, that if hyper inflation happens that I won't be able to make micro transactions with 1 ounce silver coins or gold coins, so they suggest junk silver. The only problem is I worry a bit about the idea of exchanging money for lower valued money (face value).

    That something I'll have to overcome in my head.

    Also, I do worry about the prospects of folks still exchanging junk silver post-collapse or hyper inflation. I think the idea of exchanging any US based currency after the paper and current coins are basically worthless could worry folks (or at least me) when they go to exchange tangible goods for it. But, I guess the fact that it's silver contents are still valued at something will make it worth trading in the event an economic downturn, because I believe we would need some kind of post-currency to make facilitating trade easier.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    I'd go half junk silver and half silver ounces.
    +1 especially if you can't find a dealer who will sell rounds/eagles/etc at a reasonable price. I'm a junk silver fanboy at the moment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RPEphesians 6:12 (KJV)//I sell stuff here go buy nao!

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphim View Post
    I say this to all new PM investors/savers.

    If you cannot afford to buy gold in the 1/2 ounce weights or more - you have no business buying gold. That is, from a purely economic standpoint. The premiums on sub half ounce coins are massive.

    Buy silver if you cannot afford 1000$ (close at the moment) or more gold purchases.
    This^^ Going into debt to buy PMs is stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RPEphesians 6:12 (KJV)//I sell stuff here go buy nao!

  25. #24

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    I had some odds and ends sterling silver around, a couple small plates and spoons. Went to my local dealer. $300. Loved it. I am going to be buy $1000 of silver ounces just to have a round. Most importantly living close to the ocean are my fishing rods and spear gun. I can make water out of sea water if need be and walk a couple hundred yards out to the hills and bag me a few dove with a shotgun. I feel sorry for those who rely on the system so much they will not be able to provide for themselves.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by slamhead View Post
    I feel sorry for those who rely on the system so much they will not be able to provide for themselves.
    You are kidding yourself if you believe you are not one of them.

    Do the test:
    Turn off your electrical power, water service, and do not drive your car (as it is out of gas for this scenario).

    Dare you to live even 5 days like this.

    Now, consider that your neighbors would be living like this ... especially if you happen to have something they don't .....

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Flag View Post
    You are kidding yourself if you believe you are not one of them.

    Do the test:
    Turn off your electrical power, water service, and do not drive your car (as it is out of gas for this scenario).

    Dare you to live even 5 days like this.

    Now, consider that your neighbors would be living like this ... especially if you happen to have something they don't .....
    I have guns and a will to live. That is all I need.

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by slamhead View Post
    I have guns and a will to live. That is all I need.
    Give your bravado a 5 day test - I'll wager a buck by day 3 you'll say to anyone listening ..."Well that was long enough, I could do that standing on my head for 30 days...", and the will all laugh at your joke.

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Flag View Post
    Give your bravado a 5 day test - I'll wager a buck by day 3 you'll say to anyone listening ..."Well that was long enough, I could do that standing on my head for 30 days...", and the will all laugh at your joke.
    Really dude. I spent three weeks in the Mojave desert by myself just so I could say I did. I will be just fine.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by slamhead View Post
    Really dude. I spent three weeks in the Mojave desert by myself just so I could say I did. I will be just fine.
    You compare a camping trip to a survival situation....

    Ok, "dude".....if you say so

  31. #30

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    As others have said:
    Stocking the pantry is always a smart thing to do.
    You won't go wrong using metals to preserve your wealth for the future.
    Investing in your own business is a good way to build your wealth.

    The only thing I can add is that you might want to commit yourself to a contract that enforces financial discipline to build your savings.
    Some people have good results using dividend paying whole life insurance to do this. Google "Bank on Yourself" and "Infinite Banking".
    There's an awful lot of sales hype to cut through, but there are some real benefits too.
    Here's one of the best discussion threads I've found about it: http://forums.kiplinger.com/showthre...nking...&pp=15

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