Bingo!Originally Posted by Paul Or Nothing II
Bingo!
Well, more than that --- they can remonetize the FRN to gold to whatever they wish.
The first round was $35 - but if they deem they wish to adjust that to $1500, they can, and print up (or digit up) $1465 more FRN on a whim.
No, paying off debt would do no such thing - that's the point.The money supply has expanded by a couple magnitudes since then and that expansion took place through Fed loaning money into existence and Fed-backed banks loaning money into existence. Also, trivially, Treasury coinage. So while you are correct that paying off all debt would not erase the entire money supply, it WOULD erase most of it. Just this year the Federal government borrowed more from the Fed (created out of thin air) than the entire money supply in 1933.
If I lend you a buck, and you pay me back.... explain how the money supply changed???
You are advocating Fisher's/Keynes crackpot theory of money, not Mises, nor Rothbard, nor Friedman.
*dang, I posted a long comment and since I am a new user and usually come here to feed my Paul addiction when the DP is down, it wouldn't let me post my link and deleted my post. Bare with me, I have to post 3 comments before they allow me to post the link.
Fort knox and a place almost no one knows about off the Hudson River in Mass. stores all the gold in the US, and holds a lot of foreign gold aswell. Last I read there is over 6000 tons between the two locations.
The US govt doesn't own all of it, but hold a lot of other countrie's gold. If the economy goes caput, the govt siezes it, and issues them receipts to them with the amount confiscated, and they are free to buy it back in the new currency (fraud.) It happend in 1933. Although the dollar didn't disapear, it was devalued by $15 USD's.
Also, the Rothchild family owns the majority of the worlds gold. They supposidly have a wealth of $232 trillion (over half of the worlds wealth) aswell(according to Credit Suisse Group.) Take it with a grain of salt though. Here is the link I got it from. http://americanfreepress.net/?p=2743 A good read, and more believeable than the MSM. ***Also, if you are a book worm or like to read, add "Currency Wars, the Making to of the Next Global Crisis." Great read, and talks about the classical gold standard which produced the greatest/wealthiest/widest middle class, but ended in 1913 (because of you know what act.)
Last edited by FreedomIsAbsolute; 03-07-2012 at 11:33 AM.
http://www.gold.org/
You can go here to find out who owns the gold.
They track the declared gold reserves.
Interesting website - thanks for that.
A few statements on their "Numbers and Facts" page:
* 166,600 tons of gold mined since beginning of civilization (they don't mention how far back they're counting as "civilization")
* Over 90% of all the gold has been mined since the California Gold Rush
* Fort Knox holds 4,600 tons
* US Federal Reserve holds 6,200 tons
* 60% of gold mined today becomes jewelry
You gotta register on the site to download the document showing declared gold reserves - I'm hesitant to do that LOL
Edit:
Ok. Registered anonymously and downloaded it (update as of Feb 2012)
Interesting note:
* Says USA holds 8,133 tons, 74% of which is in the "% of reserves" column.
* "% of reserves" is defined in a footnote as "The percentage share held in gold of total foreign reserves"
That leads me to think that 26% of our holdings belong to US interests, 74% belongs to foreign interests?
Last edited by Jamesiv1; 03-09-2012 at 07:20 AM.
- Don't lie.
- Don't cheat.
- Don't steal.
- Don't kill.
- Don't commit adultery.
- Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
- Honor your father and mother.
- Set aside a day of rest for church, family and friends.
- Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
- Do unto others as you would like to be done to.
"For the love of money is the root of all evil..."
I Timothy 6:10, KJV 1611
A bit of background.
Though gold is not money to the American citizen, gold is money to the banks and government. Funny, huh?
So all trade between nations (and hence interbank transactions) are backed up with gold bullion, called "reserves"
At the end of the day (or some accounting period), men with forklifts move pallets of gold in and out of vaults.
As far as "other reserves", those are typically money of other countries, such as yen, euro, franc, cdn$, etc. - thus, if a transfer is denominated in a currency, they can trade the paper instead.
It will then make sense that most of the world has large non-gold reserves (vast majority, US$), and the US with the most gold. The world trades on the US$, even between nations.
PS: the gold is swapped at a fixed rate of $42.22 an oz. Weird, huh?
So again these are DECLARED reserves - they may not be physically there.
The banks, holding gold at $42.22/oz. got greedy. They are not legally allowed to sell the gold to the market, so they created a front called a "bullion bank" that leased this gold from the bank.
These 'bullion banks' gave a piece of paper to the bank promising to replace the physical metal oz. to oz. on demand, and took and sold the gold at market rate .... mostly, though back in 2003-2005... and invested the proceeds in the stock exchange.
Bet you can guess these guys are in trouble.
The bank dares not call the loans - the price of gold would blow through the roof, and the bullion banks don't have money to buy it anyway, now that the market tanked.
So the central banks play a "don't look, it must be there" game.
But one day .... like an audit.... the game will end.
Last edited by Black Flag; 03-09-2012 at 10:54 AM.
Ok, I'll buy that. But still... Let's say your take-home share was just one of those racks in my vault pic. I'm betting I could feed and clothe me and mine for years and burn up maybe 4 or 5 bricks, max.
Just saying that if SHTF the amount of gold forced into circulation would be the bare minimum the gold-holders unleash to buy goods and services. And they probably have of few mansions full of valuables they would choose to part with first, me thinks.
Last edited by Jamesiv1; 08-25-2012 at 10:22 AM.
- Don't lie.
- Don't cheat.
- Don't steal.
- Don't kill.
- Don't commit adultery.
- Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
- Honor your father and mother.
- Set aside a day of rest for church, family and friends.
- Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
- Do unto others as you would like to be done to.
"For the love of money is the root of all evil..."
I Timothy 6:10, KJV 1611
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