Gold and to what extent the IRS tracks transactions

[Kevin_Dubro]

When you buy less than $10,000 from a dealer with a personal check does that get reported the IRS each year? If not then how long do dealers keep records of GOLD sales for?

How anonymous are you when selling gold in Arizona if it's a cash deal? If the deal happened a long time ago?

How long do banks keep records for before destroying?

[cubical]

I am assuming the record never goes away. It isn't reported to the IRS, but if the feds come to the bullion company I am sure they will have no problem getting your info, but unless you are a big fish or you purchased very recently it wouldn't be worth going after you. I don't think the government will be going after gold anyways. It was different in the 30s. There is no longer a need to act like the dollar is retaining its value since it is only paper.

[Zippyjuan]

Might double check with the IRS to see if things have changed but according to http://news.coinupdate.com/irs-and-g...-dealers-0353/

The three main circumstances where dealers may be required to do extra paperwork or submit reports for compliance with governmental regulations are 1) the receipt of “cash” payments of large enough amounts in one or more related transactions where the dealer must comply with cash reporting regulations; 2) a minimal amount of extra in-house paperwork for purchases or sales above a threshold dollar amount where the affected coin dealer (which includes almost every dealer who handles any bullion-related transactions) must comply with anti-money laundering regulations; and 3) purchases from non-corporate sellers of a limited list of precious metal coins and ingots in large enough quantities that the dealer needs to submit the IRS Form 1099-B.

Cash reporting regulations. There are two elements in the cash reporting regulations. First, the basic rule is that when someone makes cash payments totaling more than $10,000 in a single or in related transactions, the dealer receiving such payments has to submit Form 8300 Report of Cash Payments Over $10,000 Received in a Trade or Business. Among the tricky parts is that cash includes more than just the Federal Reserve Notes in your wallet. It also includes traveler’s checks and money orders and bank instruments like cashier’s checks of individual amounts of $10,000 or less (bank originated instruments in excess of $10,000 need not be reported by a dealer as the issuing institution had to already report it to the IRS). Another tricky part has to do with related transactions. If a married couple were to come in to make purchases within a short time frame, paying “cash” (as defined in the IRS regulations), and totaling more than $10,000, the dealer is required to add these transactions together to submit Form 8300 to the IRS. Related transactions can also include multiple transactions by the same person and two or more transactions by people with other family relationships, or even friends or co-workers.

Anti-money laundering (AML) regulations. Section 352 of the USA Patriot Act of 2001, for which regulations were adopted about five years ago, requires coin dealers to be on the lookout for possible terrorist activities. Any coin dealer who does more than a nominal amount of purchases and sales of “bullion-related” coins and ingots (including most US $20 and $10 gold coins) with the public over the course of a 12 months period is subject to complying with these regulations. This means that the dealer is required to have a formal anti-money laundering compliance program, a designated compliance officer, annual training of all employees who deal with customers, and an annual audit of the dealer’s compliance with the program.

In complying with anti-money laundering regulations, dealers may be required to obtain the name of all customers engaging in cash transactions above a threshold dollar amount, no matter whether buying or selling. What I have heard is that the AML compliance programs of most dealers have a threshold of $3,000 above which they must obtain this customer information. My own company, because of its higher volume and larger average transaction size, has a $5,000 threshold.

IRS Form 1099-B reporting regulations. The IRS proposed regulations in the early 1980s to require coin dealers to report certain purchases from non-corporate sellers. It took nine years for the IRS to finally pin down reporting thresholds. During this time, significant lobbying by ICTA succeeded in eliminating reporting requirements for small transactions (see IRS Revenue Procedure 92-103).

Here are the only items listed by the IRS in Rev. Proc. 92-103 as requiring submission for Form 1099-B, and the minimum threshold quantities that must be sold in a single or related transactions before the form must be filed:







Item

Minimum Fineness

Minimum Reportable Amount



Gold Bars

0.995

Any size bars totaling 1 kilogram (32.15 troy oz.) or more



Silver Bars

0.999

Any size bars totaling 1,000 troy oz. or more



Platinum Bars

0.9995

Any size bars totaling 25 troy oz. or more



Palladium Bars

0.9995

Any size bars totaling 100 troy oz. or more



1 oz. Gold Maple Leaf

as minted

25 1-oz. coins



1 oz. Gold Krugerrand

as minted

25 1-oz. coins



1 oz. Gold Mexican Onza

as minted

25 1-oz. coins



US 90% Silver Coins

as minted

Any combination of dimes, quarters, or half dollars totaling $1,000 face value or more


If an item is not on this list, sales of it does not need a Form 1099-B to be filed, no matter how large the quantity!

[Kevin_Dubro]

dealers may be required to obtain the name of all customers engaging in cash transactions above a threshold dollar amount, no matter whether buying or selling. What I have heard is that the AML compliance programs of most dealers have a threshold of $3,000 above which they must obtain this customer information. My own company, because of its higher volume and larger average transaction size, has a $5,000 threshold.

So I guess you can be "anonymous" if you sell one ounce of gold a year and take cash for it.

[WilliamC]

Sell to private individuals for cash only, and keep your mouth shut.

[Kevin_Dubro]

but unless you are a big fish or you purchased very recently it wouldn't be worth going after you.

What would be considered "very recently"?

[Black Flag]

I wouldn't worry about it.

The number of people who buy/sell gold coins in the US is only about 0.1% of the population - no one cares.

If that goes up to 10% of the population, the volume would be so huge that no one could track you.

There are bigger threats out there than this ....