Deregulating the banks?

[Black Flag]

They key is competition in currency (repealing legal tender laws).

No, it wouldn't.

As long as you have to pay your tax in the currency of the government, the currency of the government will continue to be the money - everything else will merely be another commodity - exactly as we have it today.

Money is the economic good most desired in a market place.
In today's market, there is one, and only one desire that touches almost every man woman and child that is directed universally - taxation.

That which solves paying taxes will be desired by everyone - and that is the US$.

If a whole basket of currencies or commodities was dumped by God above into the market over night - repealing the tender laws - over night, only one would remain to be seen as money, and that is the US$.

[Black Flag]

Paul,

The intrinsic value of all economic goods is zero.

[Black Flag]

Paul

Repealing "Corporate Personhood" would make the persons running the company PERSONALLY LIABLE as in, if company's assets aren't sufficient enough to cover its losses then those running their PERSONAL PROPERTY will be seized to cover them

Check!

Corporations are not people.

All Corporations, which exist to limit liability, are in their root and essence, evil.

[Travlyr]

No, it wouldn't.

As long as you have to pay your tax in the currency of the government, the currency of the government will continue to be the money - everything else will merely be another commodity - exactly as we have it today.

If I hire a roofer to repair my roof, and I pay him 30 pieces of silver, then how is the government going to know how much income he earned? Does he have to pay taxes on his 30 pieces of silver? Why? If he keeps them for 10 years and the Federal Reserve System inflates FRN 10x, does he have to pay capital gains tax on the difference of what they were worth and what they are worth in 10 years? Why?

Money is the economic good most desired in a market place.

Irredeemable fiat "The Federal Reserve Note" loses value everyday. That characteristic alone makes the FRN NOT the most desired economic good.

In today's market, there is one, and only one desire that touches almost every man woman and child that is directed universally - taxation.

That which solves paying taxes will be desired by everyone - and that is the US$.

The States by law, the supreme law of the land, "No State shall make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts" Gold and silver are the most desired economic good according to law. I desire that as well because they do not lose value over time.

If a whole basket of currencies or commodities was dumped by God above into the market over night - repealing the tender laws - over night, only one would remain to be seen as money, and that is the US$.

Commodity money will out compete FRNs as soon as HR 1098 passes. It would be wise to get out of FRNs immediately. Sound money, fully redeemable will liberate the people.

Here is how: Human Freedom Rests on Gold Redeemable Money By HON. HOWARD BUFFETT
U. S. Congressman from Nebraska

[AndyW]

Sweet lord this stuff is quite complex... it's no wonder the country is in a mess when the nitty gritty is the only way to really know what's going on - the surface value of much of the main issues forces speculative conclusions. I base my support of Ron Paul based on a trust that is put together through building a picture of him and his consistent actions, it's obvious who's a pawn and who isn't. But some people can't decipher such qualities in a person - and they won't be voting Paul.

Having known almost nothing about US politics back in 2008, I could still tell that Obama had something dark in store for America. While everyone else was crying and thinking that the utopia had come. People are easy to read. But try and use that in a debate.

[-C-]

Hi folks, I'm having a debate with someone currently who is saying that Ron Paul wants to deregulate the banks (which is the opposite of what I thought he'd do) and they're saying that, therefore, he wants to take America back the the 1920s - pre crash.

I obviously am not stupid and now that Paul is for sound economic policy, so trust what he says, but could someone help me some up why deregulating the banks would be better than the current system of having regulations which worked for years and then breaking those regs to extort money. I thought they were the only things keeping things safe.

(although I guess they don't matter anyway now because banksters do what they want).

The market is more free than it ever has been, to such an extent that it has been free to buy our, and other, governments. You have to separate commercial and investment/merchant banking, so that taxpayer dollars doesn't back speculative activity under the same financial "roof." We have to return to Glass-Steagall banking regulations, and then build our way out of this mess.

Also think of the national debt of the US...say its a lolworthy 100 trillion with entitlements...now compare that to an estimated 4.6(4600 trill) quadrillion dollar denominated derivatives bubble...now laugh really hard at Ron Paul's idea of cutting 1 trillion off our budget. Furthermore it is insane to cut entitlements, or any other part of the budget under the guise of "saving money" or it being "cost effective." The real disease isn't budgets of Nation State's worldwide, its the speculative hordes of capital that have systemically destroyed and bloated the entire monetary system. Thus the only choice is to exert your sovereignty over the private speculative money that is bankrolling fascism all over the planet. If you don't have sovereign control over your money, the creation of credit to monetize, and the exchange rate there-of, you have NO sovereignty in the face of imperial private interests.

[Steven Douglas]

Paul,

The intrinsic value of all economic goods is zero.

You don't even know what intrinsic value means. Intrinsic is just "whatever it is, in and of itself", quite separate from market, or exchange value, or desirability, which by definition are extrinsic.

An egg is an egg. It is comprised of __________, which has _________ physical properties. That is the intrinsic value of an egg.

Rinse and repeat using anything else to find its intrinsic value.

As for RP wanting to deregulate banks, that's both a myth and an over-generalizing misdirection. People think "regulate" and automatically, often erroneously, think "restrict", or "control". Even the words regulation and deregulation have been bastardized, as there are banking regulations that EMPOWER and FACILITATE fraudulent behavior on the parts of banks. So "deregulation" in such cases would be calling for the removal of such empowerment, and replacing those "regulations" with real prohibitions on fraud.

[Black Flag]

You don't even know what intrinsic value means.

Sorry, Steven, but I do absolutely know what "intrinsic" means, and what "value" means.

And there is no such thing that has intrinsic value.

Value is a human application. It is a human concept.

If a human does not value something - it has no value. Period.

An egg has no value if a human does not value it.

If I do not value your egg - it has ZERO value ... to me. And all your wailing and frothing won't change that fact.

Now, you could value a clump of mud, and you would assign some measure of that value... for you. But that mud might have a different value...to me, anything from ZERO to a whole bunch.

But there is NOTHING in mud that makes it have an intrinsic value beyond your measure of it or my measure of it.

[Black Flag]

If I hire a roofer to repair my roof, and I pay him 30 pieces of silver, then how is the government going to know how much income he earned?

Oh, my.... you believe if the government doesn't 'know' about an income, it will not demand a tax on it?
Many people are in jail who believed such things....

Does he have to pay taxes on his 30 pieces of silver?

According to the IRS, yes.

Why?

Because, according to the IRS, that is "earned income"

If he keeps them for 10 years and the Federal Reserve System inflates FRN 10x, does he have to pay capital gains tax on the difference of what they were worth and what they are worth in 10 years? Why?

Consult your accountant ... because I am not one, so this is my lay opinion.

He must claim the market value of the silver -in FRN- as on the day you paid him, and pay the appropriate tax on that amount - whether or not he sells the silver.

If he holds on to them for 10 years, and sells them, he must pay tax on the difference between what the FRN value was on the day you gave it to him and what he sold if for ... as a capital gain.

Irredeemable fiat "The Federal Reserve Note" loses value everyday.

Irredeemable infers they are redeemable into something first.
What do you believe you can redeem FRN into?

That characteristic alone makes the FRN NOT the most desired economic good.

No, the reason the FRN is the most desired economic good in this economy is that you have to pay your taxes with them (and other legal tender issues - as per Steven)

The States by law, the supreme law of the land, "No State shall make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts"

That is the "States" as in Montana or New York.
That is not the Federal Government, which is in Washington D.C.

Gold and silver are the most desired economic good according to law. I desire that as well because they do not lose value over time.

It really matters what time you think you are measuring it from.

If you bought it in 1980 and sold in 1999, you would have lost your shirt. (850 down to 250)

Which raises a question:
You keep saying "it keeps value over time"... but what are you comparing it to? If you don't believe in FNR, why do you use FRN to value the price of your gold?

It would be wise to get out of FRNs immediately.

You still need it to buy your food, so "getting out of them" is not necessarily good idea....

[Seraphim]

No, it wouldn't.

As long as you have to pay your tax in the currency of the government, the currency of the government will continue to be the money - everything else will merely be another commodity - exactly as we have it today.


Yes, yes it would. The government is there to serve the people. If the debts incurred by the government no longer represent the people, the people have the power to RENEG on that debt. End of story.

Money is the economic good most desired in a market place.
In today's market, there is one, and only one desire that touches almost every man woman and child that is directed universally - taxation.

That which solves paying taxes will be desired by everyone - and that is the US$.

See above.

If a whole basket of currencies or commodities was dumped by God above into the market over night - repealing the tender laws - over night, only one would remain to be seen as money, and that is the US$.


You underestimate the power of FREEDOM.

Force is the ONLY thing that is propping up the USD and all other fiat currencies. Once the legal tender laws are removed, the legal use of force EVAPORATES. Therefore, the demand for dollars would plumment (both internationally and domestically).

As bonds flew back into the USG treasury - the outstanding cash needed to pay off the debts would be printed and a massive devaluation would occur as capital moved into MARkET CHOSEN MONEY.

ll