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Thread: You won't read this thread because you don't like the truth. We lose if we don't ADAPT.

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraniteHills View Post
    To go further, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say most Americans don't even know what the word means -- or have never heard it. The American political paradigm, to Joe or Jane voter, who happens to be someone who probably studied very little if any American history, world history, economics, and political science, is "Democrat = poor people, Republican = rich people." I think we are dealing with a chronically mal-informed public here, and this breeds the kind of perennial election results that drive people who do know about such topics crazy.

    Rothbard was absolutely correct: public education, especially in recent years as it tends away from acquisition of deep knowledge toward rote testing, has done a number on all of us. It is very hard to get people with no sense of history, no attention span, and no awareness of the crisis to sit down and listen.

    Toward the OP, all I can say is I try to do my part through classroom teaching. Bright note: they are receptive, and they do sense things are terribly wrong.
    Very correct in your points.

    I think one of the issues we have is that a lot of people tend to think that we need people to become "converted" in order to succeed. While that is an admirable goal it simply isn't realistic. While it is very important to have the converts active in the libertarian movement of the GOP, we also need to realize that we need to have a lot of Joe & Jane Republicans vote with us, so that we can get our agenda in place. That is done by meeting voters where they are rather than waiting for voters to come to us. In a nutshell, that is the failure of the campaign & grassroots in this election cycle. We have been ineffective at communicating our message as a solution for the concerns of the average voter, instead we have been trying to force our issues on people and expect them to "wake up" and embrace our political philosophy.

    The good news is that we do have answers for people's most pressing concerns. We just need to find people that are able to communicate our answers in a manner that is appealing to the average voter. When we do that, we win. We have won before and we will continue to win. So while this nomination process may look very bleak, overall the libertarian wing of the GOP will continue to grow and we will continue to elect good people at the local, state and national level.



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  3. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivash View Post
    Taken as a whole, you are probably right that many Americans don't really know what libertarianism is. But voters in the GOP primary? I think most of them do, considering that the elderly that vote tend to be more political than 'the average' American.
    They may have heard for the word, but hardly they know what it means. Anarchy? Layoffs? No social security? No nanny state? No wars and bombing other countries (for them these=terrorists)

    Or perhaps just something else.

    They must know that it means the most importantly this: less government, less corruption, less bureaucracy, more freedom, more economical liberties, more prosperity, more money in THEIRS pockets in the end. If they got that message they would have voted for Ron Paul.

  4. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneButPaul View Post
    I just hope everyone remembers that this fight doesn't stop with this election.

    For me personally, I've stopped donating and participating in the PFH (I got just over 100) because it became clear to me that Ron knows he can't win. Ron never talks about actually being President, he never offers any specific plans to the sheeple, and he isn't aggressive enough when he's actually given time to speak.

    He doesn't appear to be in this to win, no matter what anyone wants to tell me. I've been following Paul since 2007, I've been following this campaign since it started, but it's become abundantly clear to me that this fight for Liberty has just started and even if Paul ended his campaign tomorrow nothing would change that. This is only year 5 in what's sure to be a struggle that will potentially last decades.

    To all the people disagree, I respect your right to do so, but if we're going to win the only way we can do it is with flooding the convention with our delegates and even then it's a long shot. The focus for winning should be on the delegates...

    However, while I hope everyone helps Paul out in any way you can I would ask that everyone realize that the real goal should be to get elected to their local governments and then try to spread the message that way.

    Phoning from home is great and all but the best way to get the message out to a LARGE number of people is to get politically active in local and statewide elections, even if you don't win you can make a huge difference (much in the same way Paul is now) by taking the message straight to the people.

    The real goal should be continuing to infiltrate the party from within so when the next Liberty leader (Rand or whoever) makes his run the game isn't so stacked against him.

    I think with the right amount of legwork anyone can win almost any house seat, remember folks, we're the ones with time on our side and we're the ones who are right.

    It might take voters in your area a few elections but as time goes on our message will only resonate deeper because WE ARE RIGHT and one glorious day there may be a true libertarian-republican revolution in this country. But sadly it will not be in 2012...

    Some of you have called nearly 500 people in the PFH program, while that's amazing and something that you should all be proud of just ask yourself- how many people could I speak to if I actually ran for something in my local community or state?

    Anyone out there with charisma or the natural ability to speak infront of crowds MUST use their gifts to spread the message and continue infiltrating the party- this is how we'll win in the long run- I promise.
    I've always gotten that vibe from him too, that he wasn't interested in winning. I don't really blame him, a lot of people talk about what he should or shouldn't be doing but what they don't account for is that these are dangerous people that we're up against. And we're up against them from a distance, whereas Ron is right there in the hot seat. I know people don't like 'conspiracy theories' but regardless, reality exists outside of people's willingness to accept it. I think Ron knows what the implications are if he crosses the line so to speak and so he does the best he can for all of us to get the message of freedom out. And if it keeps growing then eventually they won't be able to suppress it.

  5. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophy_of_Politics View Post
    I suggest everyone in this thread, go and read George Washington's Newburgh Address. Like pronto.
    I suggest Ron Paul should go and read washington's Newburgh Address so that he can remember WHAT A FORMAL F**KING SPEECH LOOKS LIKE.

  6. #95

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    Heres my time to have the dogs sicked on me....

    RPF as a tool = turning a phillips head screw with a sanding block

    Before you get all tiffed... try to reflect on what i'm saying.

    I am saying nothing that hasnt already been declared before MANY times on here yet STILL goes unchecked... and the die hard puff and woot woot in pride on how this place isnt for newcomers.. its for die hards only and newbies should go elsewhere.

    This board is simply not being implemented in an effective way. sure maybe for the die hards its tips... but answer me this? will Ron Paul get elected with ONLY the support of the die hards? or do we need the support of the masses as well?

    With only DP vs RPF... RPF is winner as far as user friendly layout but made for and by die hards and NOT the common person casually strolling online to check out, reasearch (as we tell/beg them to do), or casually join with fellow supporters.

    Already i hear the crickets chirping as a lone tumbleweed rolls by as the eyes are rolling because im stupid and dont know anything. though I tend to take it with a grain of salt and dont live on here 24/7.. sadly however many others do not take things in such stride and have likely already been driven away to candidate X..

    errrrrk stop! insert sheldon cooper logic: "But ah that make no sense to do over some forum right????"

    sure.. but its how it works out there in this world NOT made of Ron Paul die hards and if your plan is to change that... HAHAHAHAHA good luck telling birds to swim and fish to fly.... bottom line...media says ron paul is nuts and his supporters are rude... people decide to look past it... come here, see all the die hard BS and... OOOOOPS "darn the media was right! dont want to be wrapped up with that rabble..." or "darn asked a question and got rubbed out WTF?!?!..." or "well I was on the fence between candidate x and paul and thought I might support paul but apparently im not welcome in the paul camp so fine guess i will go to candidate x. nicer people there at least"

    eeeeeerk STOP! again insert sheldon cooper logic: "ah no you know noting! im so sure the what 20,000 or so people wo come here a day wont make that big a difference! and is their problem for come onto our turf without thick skin!"

    ahhh and what about the domino effect of what they tell their friends, family, coworkers ect that dont come here who then pass that along to their freinds, family, and coworkers who then pass along to their friends, family, coworks ect huh????

    eeeerrrrk STOP! insert more sheldon cooper logic: "well if these people dont like it then they can go elsewhere!"

    ahh dont worry..they have sadly because there is no other forum really to go that makes sense.

    errrrk STOP! response: " then why dont YOU make a place!"

    ahh if this was 15 years ago when i was flush with cash and didnt have a family of 5 to keep up with I would.. but its not.. even if i did I would have no clue how to promote it since posting something here would undoubtedly result in accuasations of spamming and trolling. Besides... I would prefer to keep this place and just make slight adjustments to accomidate both the die hards (who wish a sharply refined tool and hard core facts, statistics, grassroots activism) AND the newbie or common jane/joe (who wish a friendly place to hang out, speculate, share ideas with fellow Ron Paul supporters and learn as well in addition to a tool for basic info). Everything to do this far as i know can be done by ADMIN with a few simple clicks in the ACP of the board. The die hards will gripe (at first) but things would run more smoothly in the end and the numbers would be more likely to grow (as well as the support.. again.. think domino effect)

    next step... take a step back and take a different look at ourselves and say ya know.. if what we have been doin hasnt gotten us the results we seek, then maybe its time we try something different?

    fine.... Should I make a simple demo board and post it just as demonstration so everyone can see what im talking about and give it a test drive?

    and what does this have to do with grassroots activism? the title of this forum says it all... GRASSROOTS CENTRAL... and where is this located??.. ON THIS BOARD... and what does this board and grassroots activism have in common? without PEOPLE.. niether would be effective. We have grassroots organization and people.. what we dont have is enough people. ergo.. MORE PEOPLE FRIENDLY BOARD>>MORE PEOPLE>>MORE IDEAS>>LARGER GRASSROOTS>>MORE ACTIVISM>>WINNING! savvy?

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  7. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias2dope View Post
    As much of a nobody as I am, I still have made over 300 PFH calls and my fam has got at least one hundred signatures for delegates
    and for RP in PA.

    So I can at least say I helped to get RP on the PA ballot.

    Look I actually did something albeit something small.

    I am only one, but I am one. I can't do everything, but I can do something. The something I ought to do, I can do. And by the grace of God, I will.
    ]
    You think this is a small contribution..

    Imagine if everyone who has donated $$, did what you did.

    RP would be the undeniable front runner. We have 200,000+ people who have given money... 200,000 x 300 calls = 60,000,000 calls -- that's multiple contacts per voter in the US.

    200,000 x 100 = 20,000,000 signatures. Change this to 20M door knocks(since we don't need that many signatures..) -- even with just a 5% conversion ratio, this would win the election.

  8. #97

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    Well I hope you're right and am sure glad to be in the business I'm in as it looks like more of the same.

    An employee of mine in a communist country told me last night, "it's time for Americans to accept the fact you have a regime that is not going to allow any change in policy. It doesn't matter if Ron Paul received 75% of the "vote", they will not permit change. Just like in other socialist countries although the big difference is they don't go around ripping countries off of there natural resources and murdering there citizens" endquote.

    I have offices in Asia and I've been VERY hard on the people over there whenever I'm there saying things like " who can any man permit this tyoe of government to control what you do? This is what you're willing to allow to happen to your families? " ( I've been MUCH harder than that)

    Talk is talk although I know we have all seen riots on some countries over this type of election fraud.
    Last edited by Tudo; 02-29-2012 at 09:19 AM.

  9. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butchie View Post
    I still love Ron, and yesterday here in MI I got 13 people (that I know of) to vote for him, but now that I did my part I'll be honest, I'm done. After I saw that poll of people on here where nearly half said they would vote for a Romney/Paul ticket I lost all respect for this "movement" and I'm not spending anymore of my money on it.
    Good, we should be working with local candidates instead of a national candidate, anyway. "Grassroots" is from the bottom up, not top down.

  10. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerryb View Post
    ]
    You think this is a small contribution..

    Imagine if everyone who has donated $$, did what you did.

    RP would be the undeniable front runner. We have 200,000+ people who have given money... 200,000 x 300 calls = 60,000,000 calls -- that's multiple contacts per voter in the US.

    200,000 x 100 = 20,000,000 signatures. Change this to 20M door knocks(since we don't need that many signatures..) -- even with just a 5% conversion ratio, this would win the election.
    Which begs the question, why has this not been organized? I am not in MI or AZ so I don't know what occurred there, but shouldn't ever single person on the mailing list that lives in MI & AZ been contacted directly and asked to do some good old-fashioned retail politicking? It's great that we have an enthusiastic base, but if people are not being called upon directly by the campaign and called into action, then all the enthusiasm is worthless.

  11. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by tbone717 View Post
    It's great that we have an enthusiastic base, but if people are not being called upon directly by the campaign and called into action, then all the enthusiasm is worthless.
    It shouldn't require the campaign prodding people into action. We're supposed to be different then that.

  12. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tudo View Post
    Well I hope you're right and am sure glad to be in the business I'm in as it looks like more of the same.

    An employee of mine in a communist country told me last night, "it's time for Americans to accept the fact you have a regime that is not going to allow any change in policy. It doesn't matter if Ron Paul received 75% of the "vote", they will not permit change. Just like in other socialist countries although the big difference is they don't go around ripping countries off of there natural resources and murdering there citizens" endquote.

    I have offices in Asia and I've been VERY hard on the people over there whenever I'm there saying things like " who can any man permit this tyoe of government to control what you do? This is what you're willing to allow to happen to your families? " ( I've been MUCH harder than that)

    Talk is talk although I know we have all seen riots on some countries over this type of election fraud.
    I'm of the opinion that if RP received 75% support, he would be killed.
    Let them keep thinking Ron Paul supporters are just a little army. Every military strategy manual in the world has examples of the bad things that happen to arrogant commanders of massive armies that underestimate the enemy. They all lose. We will win because the human heart, despite its detractors, is meant for truth and freedom.

  13. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerryb View Post
    It shouldn't require the campaign prodding people into action. We're supposed to be different then that.
    Agreed, but without organization we are a scattered mass going in fifty different directions, many of them unfocused. If they have the names, then why not use them? I know when we work local elections there are some people we can call on to volunteer for the legwork. Just did it for a DJ race here. A neighbor of mine ran, we contacted some people we knew we could ask to help her out, and spent a couple weekends knocking on every door we possibly could.

    Left to their own devices, people might do something silly like create a costly and ineffective brochure and mail them out to potential voters --- oh wait, we did that. Ok well left to their own devices people might think it's a great idea to have a blimp with Paul's name on it and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on it --- oh wait, we did that.
    Last edited by tbone717; 02-29-2012 at 09:52 AM.

  14. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    PFH is currently calling RP supporters and getting them out to the caucus in WA. We have the numbers to win but we need turnout.

    So instead of complaining about PFH, just get on it and do what you gotta do.

    What else can you do? speculate on RPF?
    was being sarcastic while drinking a guiness and falling asleep... didnt work... for obvious reason once I woke up this morning.... I like phone from home
    Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!
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  15. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneButPaul View Post
    I think with the right amount of legwork anyone can win almost any house seat, remember folks, we're the ones with time on our side and we're the ones who are right.
    While I agree with the sentiment behind this, and I intend to fight on odds be damned I have to vehemently disagree with the concept that "time is on our side"
    time is anything but on our side, if we lose in 2012 we get more of the same and more of the same means things continue to get worse.
    Within less than one quarter of the time our next elected president will sit the following things have happened.

    [QUOTE]Yet another example in the long list of reasons why 2016 is likely too late and why no matter the odds pushing for Ron Paul to be in the White House this election is so important.
    ACTA
    OPEN
    NDAA
    Enemy Expatriation Act
    Assassination Powers
    HR 347
    All within less than twelve months multiply these effects by more than four times (another Presidential term) and stack the new damage on top of the current (because it is cumulative) that's the reality of what we're looking at.

    So what have you done today to get Ron Paul elected?

    Suggestions:
    Sign up as a delegate
    Donate to the Current Moneybomb
    Thread


    Does the Liberty movement need to continue even after this election regardless of the results? Of course.
    Is it going to be a long road regardless of what happens in the upcoming elections? Yeah.
    Do we have any time to spare over multiple election cycles for our efforts to bear fruit? Not in the least.

    I've heard frequent debates about whether this election is marathon or a sprint, but one thing is blindingly clear the larger restoration of our nation is both.
    Things are much worse when you look at the laws on the books than most citizens of this nation believe they could ever get. Let me repeat that, legally things have already gone further than most people think they can go even in theory, and they are still getting worse.
    I hate to put it this way because I despise how much fear mongering goes on in our nation but none of us have the time for a sugar coat when it comes to this.
    I expect that many people, even here in GRC of RPF won't be willing or able to acknowledge this idea... I devoutly hope that I am wrong about that because there simply isn't much time left before things go from really bad, to much much worse and we start to see the true consequences of the legal powers the Fed (not the bank) has been accumulating during the past three Presidential terms. Again I devoutly hope I'm wrong, but after witnessing how much the populace of this nation has willingly accepted since Sept 11th I won't bet on the next four years stemming the tide, not with President Paul.

    Doesn't matter how right or how charismatic you are if your rights to speak and assemble are removed (and if you don't know that's already happening and is continuing to get worse ask Adam Kokesh what the consequence is for dancing quietly, his story there is just one among so many I can't even begin to list or count them. Paul supporters think he's blacked out, and we're blacked out... that sense is accurate, but it's nothing compared to how blacked out the actions of authoritarian over reach is within this nation, any of you see what happened to the RT reporter? That's the rule these days not the exception).

    Let me be totally blunt right now we are losing this fight and we're running out of options to turn it around and I am NOT referring to the 2012 election here. (I expect this post will be dismissed by many, honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it gets me flamed and neg repped, but to the best of my knowledge and understanding not a single word of it is exaggerated or inaccurate, and I hope that here on a liberty minded forum at least some (perhaps all? ) of those reading this will take the time to read the actual laws and policies and check how legal precedents have been enforced to really dig and not just assume that things will be alright. This is America because we fight for liberty, not because USA is printed on our official documents.

    Liberty, freedom, they are things that require constant protection, they are not guaranteed.
    The Founding Fathers knew that (read their quotes) do you?
    Last edited by PolicyReader; 02-29-2012 at 04:06 PM.
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  16. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by HigherVision View Post
    I think Ron knows what the implications are if he crosses the line so to speak and so he does the best he can for all of us to get the message of freedom out. And if it keeps growing then eventually they won't be able to suppress it.
    Well, that's exactly right. The energy that brings upon freedom for the people is the very energy that they themselves exhibit. So yes, kiddies. Free energy do exist. Do with it what you wish but it's a slow ride. Walk over there and pick up all of the marbles. Stop trying to run over there and grab just one. Please?

    You have a great start. Understand it for what it is and stop trying to make it something that it isn't yet ready to be. The statetsman does and he's leaving his lesson that cannot be left unheard to thousands of people on what is a daily basis. Let the youth have their renassaince. They'll migrate to the process. That's the great thing about such an energy. It's constant. Some say consistent even.

    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 02-29-2012 at 05:03 PM.

  17. #106

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    Too many chiefs like to interfere with the injuns rain dance. You can't have thunder without lightening no matter how big yer TP seems to be.

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