You won't read this thread because you don't like the truth. We lose if we don't ADAPT.

[eleganz]

THIS IS A REVOLUTION & YOU BETTER F'ING ACT LIKE YOU'RE FIGHTING IN ONE IF YOU WANT RON PAUL TO BE PRESIDENT PAUL

If we don't change our forum/grassroots mentality, we will lose (this election). Plain and simple.


Stop the speculation and POINTLESS topics/threads and start promoting ACTIVISM & ORGANIZATION.


We will literally be the end of ourselves, most of us are the very sheeple we condemn the rest of the country of being.



Sorry if this is too much of a REALITY CHECK for you but I'm here to win NOT chit chat.



If you are here to win, you better start changing the way you operate on these forums and in your free-time.


I've already accepted that we weren't losing because of fraud, we're losing because all of the so called 'hardcore Ron Paul supporters' aren't very hardcore after all.

We definitely don't live up to the name and reputation that has been given to us.



TOO MUCH BARK, NOT ENOUGH BITE.



STOP F'ING SPECULATING. DO SOMETHING IF YOU ARE ABLE TO.


-Call Washington friday and Saturday morning. All day Saturday-Tuesday for Super Tuesday
www.phone.ronpaul2012.com

This is a message from John Tate, TODAY:

"If Ron Paul is going to finish strong on Super Tuesday, we must make sure as many identified supporters as possible show up to vote.

Our numbers show that if we can turn out every supporter we've identified in key Super Tuesday states, Ron Paul WILL have an INCREDIBLY strong showing."

GET ON THE PHONES.

WASHINGTON CAUCUS LOCATOR
https://www.waronpaul.com/caucus/locator

WASHINGTON CAMPAIGN HQ PHONE #
1-425-440-0324



-Read up on your delegates:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ook-no-further!

-get on www.ronpaulcountry.com & www.meetup.com BE ACTIVE, START EVENTS, BUILD A VOLUNTEER DATABASE...DO SOMETHING.

-Help others promote their local activism by BUMPING activism threads and keeping them alive.

-pump donations





If you have a suggestion, name it and I'll ADD it in the OP.

[joshnorris14]

Isn't saying "we lose if we don't adapt" itself speculation?

[jbauer]

No he's right. If you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything. Its all good and fine to b!tch about the media or fraud, but you beat that by standing up and doing something about it.

We are in TN and we made and hung signs at all the precincts in our county and we're organizing a rally for Saturday. We're getting the local media to come cover it. It can be done but you have to organize, promote and change peoples minds one at a time.

Isn't saying "we lose if we don't adapt" itself speculation?

[No Free Beer]

Isn't saying "we lose if we don't adapt" itself speculation?

This is precisely what the OP is talking about.

[doremedia]

Well, there is no way they are going to allow Ron Paul to win. The objective is to continue the fight...get lots of delegates, push the Liberty movement further along, organize and start putting Ron Paul principles to work at the local level. Our Ron Paul group has become a PAC and we are going to effect change on the local level..we are already supporting Ron Paul candidates locally..we have to first change our own back yards. All Politics is Local.

[vechorik]

..............Our Ron Paul group has become a PAC and we are going to effect change on the local level..we are already supporting Ron Paul candidates locally..we have to first change our own back yards. All Politics is Local.

Our state RP group is also supporting liberty candidates in our state. Many of us are working within GOP. We WILL make a difference!

[kathy88]

Rant?

[floridasun1983]

DO SOMETHING IF YOU ARE ABLE TO.

"DO SOMETHING." Do what, exactly? What do you suggest?

[Paul Revered]

"DO SOMETHING." Do what, exactly? What do you suggest?

The OP already suggested it, "stop speculating." I've organized members of my community to become delegates. Aside from that, I come to these forums throughout almost all of every day, looking for ammunition. I take that information to various forums. In the one forum that I'm in, there were only two vocal Ron Paul supporters, including myself, a few months ago. Now there are dozens. I can't measure what part I played in that; but I suspect that it was the bulk of it. Speculation and misinformation do irreversible damage to my credibility; and it will be used against me by my opponents, for months in the future. I learned this lesson the hard way in 2007. Since then I've had to check out each and every post in these forums, with the purported source. That's time consuming. What is also time consuming is wading through masses of threads which don't serve to yield valuable information. When I'm searching, I'm not posting. When I'm not posting; I'm not building support for our cause.

[floridasun1983]

The OP already suggested it, "stop speculating." I've organized members of my community to become delegates. Aside from that, I come to these forums throughout almost all of every day, looking for ammunition. I take that information to various forums. In the one forum that I'm in, there were only two vocal Ron Paul supporters, including myself, a few months ago. Now there are dozens. I can't measure what part I played in that; but I suspect that it was the bulk of it. Speculation and misinformation do irreversible damage to my credibility; and it will be used against me by my opponents, for months in the future. I learned this lesson the hard way in 2007. Since then I've had to check out each and every post in these forums, with the purported source. That's time consuming. What is also time consuming is wading through masses of threads which don't serve to yield valuable information. When I'm searching, I'm not posting. When I'm not posting; I'm not building support for our cause.

Sorry, but "stop speculating" isn't much of a plan. Actually, the OP is doing a great deal of speculating on his or her own, by speculating that nobody is doing enough to help. That would be incorrect. I am donating money to the campaign. I have bumper stickers and signs. I share RP news on Facebook. I VOTED for Dr. Paul, which apparently is a lot more than most of his cheerleaders actually do. I delivered other votes for Dr. Paul in the form of converts.

Frankly I get offended with these "the reason we're not winning is because YOU aren't doing enough" threads.

[eleganz]

Sorry, but "stop speculating" isn't much of a plan. Actually, the OP is doing a great deal of speculating on his or her own, by speculating that nobody is doing enough to help. That would be incorrect. I am donating money to the campaign. I have bumper stickers and signs. I share RP news on Facebook. I VOTED for Dr. Paul, which apparently is a lot more than most of his cheerleaders actually do. I delivered other votes for Dr. Paul in the form of converts.

Frankly I get offended with these "the reason we're not winning is because YOU aren't doing enough" threads.

If you feel you are doing enough, you shouldn't be offended.


Seriously, we're fighting the largest, most powerful conglomeration of greed and corruption and you're whining about someone that isn't even talking about you?

I thought this was a REVOLUTION.

[ohgodno]

I thought this was a REVOLUTION.

...Well, you know.

[hammy]

I think the problem is we're fighting blind. How do you compete with a multi-billion dollar industry that has the average citizen so tightly gripped? What do you do? I know of at least half of the people that I know who REFUSE to support Ron Paul, refuse to support him because they listen to Hannity, Beck, Rush, etc. They view these people as gods, as if they have all the answers. It's not possible to get through to them. Anything I say is wrong or a lie because I'm a "brainwashed Paulbot."

[coffeewithchess]

I think the problem is we're fighting blind. How do you compete with a multi-billion dollar industry that has the average citizen so tightly gripped? What do you do? I know of at least half of the people that I know who REFUSE to support Ron Paul, refuse to support him because they listen to Hannity, Beck, Rush, etc. They view these people as gods, as if they have all the answers. It's not possible to get through to them. Anything I say is wrong or a lie because I'm a "brainwashed Paulbot."

This is pretty close to the truth here, speaking from my own experiences as well. There is no waking these people up now, as they are 100% brainwashed. They cannot talk/debate points, they resort to name-calling, 99.8% of the time.
Every single political Facebook conversation with these people, resorts in only them name-calling either the RP supporters or RP himself. It doesn't matter that you bring up the national debt, polls against Obama, directly point out the lies on Fox News...Fox News/Hannity/Rush/Levin/Beck can do no wrong.
They literally believe the LIES out of their mouths, when they are shown to be lying.

As for the OP, I'm not sure what evidence has been presented other than a FEW posts at best, showing that PFH has much benefit. Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire (did or didn't have it?), South Carolina...

As for dealing with the Fox News viewers, a few videos that have worked in silencing some are:

[eleganz]

As for the OP, I'm not sure what evidence has been presented other than a FEW posts at best, showing that PFH has much benefit. Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire (did or didn't have it?), South Carolina...

Wow, the ignorance it takes to post something like this....

I understand you may not have been able to see first hand the BENEFITS of PFH but it doesn't take a GENIUS to acknowledge how identifying supporters from the comfort of your own home and getting them out to vote is beneficial to a presidential campaign.

[coffeewithchess]

Wow, the ignorance it takes to post something like this....

I understand you may not have been able to see first hand the BENEFITS of PFH but it doesn't take a GENIUS to acknowledge how identifying supporters and getting them out to vote is beneficial to a presidential campaign.

Not ignorance at all. The issue here was the campaign failed to win Iowa, and it was downhill since then. Iowa was going to be the surprise, but they were not prepared for the kitchen sink that got tossed their way...and the lack of their response in an effective way (ignoring it is not effective), looks like it worked against them. Can you tell me what candidate has the supporters RP does, and have placed/gotten more calls out than RP? Do you seriously believe Rick Santorum had more phone calls placed than RP did?
The simple fact is, the RP campaign chose to ignore some glaring issues, and they alone are to blame. Not me, not you, not anybody else. The campaign has raised millions, and if they can't tailor their message in a proper way, and work WITH the media...that's not on us. The fact a Ron Paul PAC, A PAC, had to release an ad trying to address a big issue the media destroyed him with right before Iowa, shows how unprepared the campaign was...with an issue they should have been prepared for.
Rick Santorum had at least a full 2 weeks of free positive media coverage, and the RP campaign FAILED to get out an attack ad on him before Iowa.

[eleganz]

Not ignorance at all. The issue here was the campaign failed to win Iowa, and it was downhill since then. Iowa was going to be the surprise, but they were not prepared for the kitchen sink that got tossed their way...and the lack of their response in an effective way (ignoring it is not effective), looks like it worked against them. Can you tell me what candidate has the supporters RP does, and have placed/gotten more calls out than RP? Do you seriously believe Rick Santorum had more phone calls placed than RP did?
The simple fact is, the RP campaign chose to ignore some glaring issues, and they alone are to blame. Not me, not you, not anybody else. The campaign has raised millions, and if they can't tailor their message in a proper way, and work WITH the media...that's not on us. The fact a Ron Paul PAC, A PAC, had to release an ad trying to address a big issue the media destroyed him with right before Iowa, shows how unprepared the campaign was...with an issue they should have been prepared for.
Rick Santorum had at least a full 2 weeks of free positive media coverage, and the RP campaign FAILED to get out an attack ad on him before Iowa.

That is the past, you can write a letter to the campaign telling them how they should've sent out an attack ad before Iowa, see how much help that does for this election



So what are you going to do NOW?

[silverhandorder]

You know not all grassroots works the same way. For example people that want to be more active will gravitate to the grassroots organizations that offer that. Such as meet ups, cfl, daily paul (I get the impression that they are more activist orientated.)

To try and make RPF into something like that is counter productive. RPF on it's own way very successful.

[Article V]

If we don't change our forum/grassroots mentality, we will lose (this election). Plain and simple.
...
We will literally be the end of ourselves, most of us are the very sheeple we condemn the rest of the country of being.
...
If you are here to win, you better start changing the way you operate on these forums and in your free-time.

So you're suggesting we do more of the same?

Sorry, I don't see any useful suggestion in your OP for adaptation, and the mods will shut you down quickly if you even try to evolve your thought into a worthwhile suggestion that Ron Paul's campaign could or should be doing something differently. (Critical analysis and suggestions for adaptation are not welcome here in the Grassroots RPF. We only allow anti-establishment news paired with our own rah-rah-rah's -- submitted in either pic, YouTube, or message form.)

The forums are for groupthink: everything is rosy here; when voting results are below expectations, it's the medias fault; there's a conspiracy against us; let's have another Moneybomb; our delegate strategy is working perfectly; and if we just push a little bit more, we'll finally cross the tipping point threshold we've been angling toward for months after months after months...

[kathy88]

So you're suggesting we do more of the same?

Sorry, I don't see any suggestion in your OP for adaptation, and the mods will shut you down quickly if you even try to evolve your thought into a worthwhile suggestion that Ron Paul's campaign could or should be doing something differently. (Critical analysis and suggestions for adaptation are not welcome here in the Grassroots RPF. We only allow anti-establishment news paired with our own rah-rah-rah's -- submitted in either pic, YouTube, or message form.)

The forums are for groupthink: everything is rosy here; when voting results are below expectations, it's the medias fault; there's a conspiracy against us; let's have another Moneybomb; our delegate strategy is working perfectly; and if we just push a little bit more, we'll finally cross the tipping point threshold we've been angling toward for months after months after months...

Some have been at it for years and years. Negativity permeates quickly. Blaming everyone else is the easy way out but unfortunately the media does black us out. The establishment GOP doesn't want us. The tea party was infiltrated with neocons. Votes have been tampered with. People don't show up. Americans are fat lazy and brainwashed. It's not a conspiracy it's just the way things are. We do our best individually to the best of our abilities with what we have. Those of us who have experienced this political roller coaster are used to it. We keep on because our cause is just. So forgive us if we don't like hearing over and over again that the campaign sucks and we aren't doing enough. As for the mods I wouldn't want to deal with this group of whining infants (myself included) for anything. So I hope you forgive me when I say STFU.

[Lord Xar]

So you're suggesting we do more of the same?

Sorry, I don't see any useful suggestion in your OP for adaptation, and the mods will shut you down quickly if you even try to evolve your thought into a worthwhile suggestion that Ron Paul's campaign could or should be doing something differently. (Critical analysis and suggestions for adaptation are not welcome here in the Grassroots RPF. We only allow anti-establishment news paired with our own rah-rah-rah's -- submitted in either pic, YouTube, or message form.)

The forums are for groupthink: everything is rosy here; when voting results are below expectations, it's the medias fault; there's a conspiracy against us; let's have another Moneybomb; our delegate strategy is working perfectly; and if we just push a little bit more, we'll finally cross the tipping point threshold we've been angling toward for months after months after months...

Posts like this rather infuriate me. Either you are out of touch with the reality of the situation or you are part of the problem. Read Kathy88 post above. That poster gets it. You don't. Eleganz is frustrated and rightly so. It is frustrating when someone is giving 120% and another is giving 2%. And the 2% has the energy to wax poetic or "give their righteous opinions" on the primary while not bothering to get into the fray. He is probably tired, over-worked, over-stressed and he is BEGGING FOR HELP!! Help to get Ron Paul elected and you just $#@! on it... A few people are doing a HELL OF A LOT behind the scenes paddling the boat for the rest of you.

So are you gonna make calls, pass out flyers, get the word out or are you gonna quietly support a man this country so desperately needs....

Anyways. Eleganz is 10000% right.

[eleganz]

Posts like this rather infuriate me. Either you are out of touch with the reality of the situation or you are part of the problem. Read Kathy88 post above. That poster gets it. You don't. Eleganz is frustrated and rightly so. It is frustrating when someone is giving 120% and another is giving 2%. And the 2% has the energy to wax poetic or "give their righteous opinions" on the primary while not bothering to get into the fray. He is probably tired, over-worked, over-stressed and he is BEGGING FOR HELP!! Help to get Ron Paul elected and you just $#@! on it... A few people are doing a HELL OF A LOT behind the scenes paddling the boat for the rest of you.

So are you gonna make calls, pass out flyers, get the word out or are you gonna quietly support a man this country so desperately needs....

Anyways. Eleganz is 10000% right.

Don't mind me, I just BOLDED the parts you were 100% spot on.

[Article V]

So you're suggesting we do more of the same?

Sorry, I don't see any useful suggestion in your OP for adaptation, and the mods will shut you down quickly if you even try to evolve your thought into a worthwhile suggestion that Ron Paul's campaign could or should be doing something differently. (Critical analysis and suggestions for adaptation are not welcome here in the Grassroots RPF. We only allow anti-establishment news paired with our own rah-rah-rah's -- submitted in either pic, YouTube, or message form.)

The forums are for groupthink: everything is rosy here; when voting results are below expectations, it's the medias fault; there's a conspiracy against us; let's have another Moneybomb; our delegate strategy is working perfectly; and if we just push a little bit more, we'll finally cross the tipping point threshold we've been angling toward for months after months after months...

Some have been at it for years and years. Negativity permeates quickly. Blaming everyone else is the easy way out but unfortunately the media does black us out. The establishment GOP doesn't want us. The tea party was infiltrated with neocons. Votes have been tampered with. People don't show up. Americans are fat lazy and brainwashed. It's not a conspiracy it's just the way things are. We do our best individually to the best of our abilities with what we have. Those of us who have experienced this political roller coaster are used to it. We keep on because our cause is just. So forgive us if we don't like hearing over and over again that the campaign sucks and we aren't doing enough. As for the mods I wouldn't want to deal with this group of whining infants (myself included) for anything. So I hope you forgive me when I say STFU.

Posts like this rather infuriate me. Either you are out of touch with the reality of the situation or you are part of the problem. Read Kathy88 post above. That poster gets it. You don't. Eleganz is frustrated and rightly so. It is frustrating when someone is giving 120% and another is giving 2%. And the 2% has the energy to wax poetic or "give their righteous opinions" on the primary while not bothering to get into the fray. He is probably tired, over-worked, over-stressed and he is BEGGING FOR HELP!! Help to get Ron Paul elected and you just $#@! on it... A few people are doing a HELL OF A LOT behind the scenes paddling the boat for the rest of you.

So are you gonna make calls, pass out flyers, get the word out or are you gonna quietly support a man this country so desperately needs....

Anyways. Eleganz is 10000% right.

I'm being realistic. Not negative. And when I tried countless times to be constructive, the mods shut down the threads because they don't allow for any questions on if we're operating as efficiently as we could be. We all have to swallow the media-is-bad, more-moneybombs, keep-phoning, sign-wave, rally-rally, polls-are-wrong, brokered-convention-will-happen, we're-secretly-2nd-in-delegates, and we're-totally-gonna-win-Iowa-(I mean, Nevada...I mean, Maine... I mean, Washington... I mean, Louisiana... I mean...)-groupthink-mantra that we're being force-fed, or we're somehow bad for the campaign.

Face it, our efforts are not producing the results we'd like because we fail to acknowledge that voters make decisions in the same way investors make decisions. And just like investors occasionally get caught into a stock-market bubble fueled by groupthink, so too the larger electorate and the media are now stuck in a Ron-Paul-can't-win bubble... while our own Grassroots and mods are stuck in a smaller, it's-everyone's-fault-but-ours bubble. In other words, if Americans are fat, lazy and brainwashed into believing Ron Paul can't win (which is partially true), then we're also fat, lazy and brainwashed into believing that everything we're doing is right and it's everyone else's fault but ours that we're not winning

Like many of you, I've been at this for years too. I've traveled the country (actually world) for Ron Paul, donated thousands for Ron Paul, lost/won friendships for liberty, and given up more than any of you will ever know to help our movement. Phone-calls, flyers, GOTV, etc? Those are child's play for me. I do them more often than bowel movements, so kindly check yourself. Right now, I'm in a 4-person email thread with Rockwell, Wead, and Block where they're all saying how brilliant and right I am; but try to question things here... and the mob attacks you.

Face it, if voters are herding, then we are too--only in a different way. And our herding is hurting is us, just like the larger-electorate's herding is hurting them.

If people in our movement actually understood economics and praxeology, they'd recognize more readily the productivity of dissent. Instead, we proclaim that "dissent against government is patriotic and useful," while at the same time deluding ourselves into the sanctimonious belief that dissent against RPF and the RP2012 campaign's centralized authority is hurtful and should be squashed immediately.

....Read: The Wisdom of Crowds. It'll teach you a lot about the bubble our movement has put itself in, while also teaching you a lot about the groupthink bubble of the media and the electorate-at-large. Once an understanding of those pervade our movement, we'll be much better equipped to handle the problem, have patience with the problem, and structure ourselves in such a way that our good ideas (read: Where Good Ideas Come From) actually reach up the campaign planners without getting lost in the tidal wave of 'more of the same' messages they receive.

[LibertyEagle]

So you're suggesting we do more of the same?

Sorry, I don't see any useful suggestion in your OP for adaptation, and the mods will shut you down quickly if you even try to evolve your thought into a worthwhile suggestion that Ron Paul's campaign could or should be doing something differently. (Critical analysis and suggestions for adaptation are not welcome here in the Grassroots RPF. We only allow anti-establishment news paired with our own rah-rah-rah's -- submitted in either pic, YouTube, or message form.)

The forums are for groupthink: everything is rosy here; when voting results are below expectations, it's the medias fault; there's a conspiracy against us; let's have another Moneybomb; our delegate strategy is working perfectly; and if we just push a little bit more, we'll finally cross the tipping point threshold we've been angling toward for months after months after months...

WTH??? The suggestion was not for you to come up with what the campaign should be doing differently. The suggestion was for YOU to get up off your ass and do something productive. You know, like participate in the Phone-from-Home program, etc.

[bbwarfield]

I never got why a real activist network hast been made. I mean... I can say whatever I want on a forum or chat room and it effects not one thing I do in the rest of my day..... but if we stop being anonymous people to eachother..... just sans serif and times new romans..... but get on the phones. CALL people (you know that all my invites to events have been text messages and facebook? I heard not one human voice inviting me to an event.... And when I got to the event.... i met know one.... I didnt connect to anybody. I found the two people I knew and stayed with them) we need to hear each others voices over the electric telephone. Then we can start truly being organized and work as a real group. OUt there in, what I affectionately call "the real world", instead of just in here... on our majical forums of activism. We gotta be a face and a voice to eachother.... not just an avatar and a witty quote involving our love of the good Dr.

[gerryb]

Some suggestions:
Attend a workshop and learn the techniques for winning hosted by:
Leadership Institute
American Majority

http://phone.ronpaul2012.com

Organize a local group (recruit via meetup.com, facebook ads($75 of free coupons per member), google ads(up to $100 free coupons per member). Work with the camapign in your state and see if they have lists of current supporters.
Get your local group to take over the GOP "establishment". The GOP is a grassroots run and elected organization. We have superior grassroots, right? Prove it. Take them over.

Start an issue organization about something you're passionate about.

Organize a campus(Use YFP or YAL campus training/techniques for recruiting)

[hb6102]

If eleganz hasnt said it 100 times already, PHONE FROM HOME!!!!

[soulcyon]

I've come to the conclusion that there is some conspiracy going on at the GOP. The only way to beat the mainstream media is to become the mainstream media - there's no way around it.

[splanky]

I've come to the conclusion that there is some conspiracy going on at the GOP. The only way to beat the mainstream media is to become the mainstream media - there's no way around it.

Conspiracy at the GOP? Who'da thunkit? No, seriously, your remark about the media is right on. TV is like the typewriter, only useful as a reminder of things antiquated. Whether we win this thing or not, interactive media will assure an ultimate reversal of the top down system that has plagued us for so long. And our folks happen to know more about it than the old msm cadavers do. It's in the works but takes more time than we want it to. We'll get there. Well, since I'm a boomer, YOU'LL get there.

[azxd]

You won't read this thread because you don't like the truth. We lose if we don't ADAPT.

Adapt ?
How about staying on course and voting for the principles you believe in ?
How about supporting someone who .... Nevermind
Your frustraton does not need to be mine.