Interesting Article: hxxp://news.yahoo.com/santorum-win-michigan-could-chaos-republicans-200209608.html
"Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted." -Einstein
Santorum may very well "win" but then he's going to get the same treatment that Ron Paul got in Nevada and Maine as the establishment takes it from him and gives it to Romney
It's harder to do that with a primary than a party-run caucus.Originally Posted by Captain Shays
Expect chaos. Chaos = $$ for media.
I don't think Santorum will win either AZ or MI. The polls show he's dropping fast. People are waking up to who he really is, as the quotes in the article demonstrate.
I see it going like this: Romney wins both states and the push by the establishment to wrap this up begins, with everyone jumping on the Mitt wagon and rallying the voters behind him. We've already seen a lot of this beginning, with pundits whining about the GOP damaging their eventual candidate and giving Obama an advantage. They're antsy and want to begin the "bash Obama" phase of things.
No it isn't. It's a lot more difficult to cheat in a caucus.
In a primary...they just whip out the diebold counters.
I WANT Santorum to win MI (if it's not Ron ofcourse), don't know why any of you want Romney to win. If Romney wins both on Tues there will be a HUGE push to start saying OK, enough then, Romney's our guy, let's get on with it. After that Ron will become even more despised than he is now as everyone will see him as some jerk hanging around and preventing them from starting the Obama bashing. Plus I live in MI and I just do not want Romney to win here, he has been so arrogant all along that he just "had MI in the bag" cuz he was born here, I would love to see him get his ass handed to him.
Golden Rule? Booooo. Go back to Texas!
I sure don't. I want Ron to be the anti Romney. Ron beat Romney in Washington, last time. I'm not as worried about Romney at this stage. Romney will stay in until the end anyhow. Santa and Ginge have enough 'imploding factor' that they might not, and I don't want them to.
"Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear.” -Ron Paul
"Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it." -Edward Snowden
I don't want him to, I just think he will. Santorum's dropping off and no one is doing anything to stop it.
It appears to me this is the Paul campaign's strategy, though I think it's a dangerous one, as I've said before. If it ever gets down to Romney and Paul alone, I fear it will be too late for Dr. Paul to do anything about it. Romney will be too strong to stop and Dr. Paul will just be perceived as a fly in the ointment/spoiler. The only attention he'll receive will be loud and frequent calls to drop out.
You could be right at this stage, it is later than I hoped it would be narrowed to Ron v Romney, and the later states don't know Ron as well.
But I agree that Ron's campaign seems to be thinking the way I am, and I still come down that way, although I see both sides.
"Integrity means having to say things that people don't want to hear & especially to say things that the regime doesn't want to hear.” -Ron Paul
"Bathtub falls and police officers kill more Americans than terrorism, yet we've been asked to sacrifice our most sacred rights for fear of falling victim to it." -Edward Snowden
There are way too many ads playing in AZ talking about how Santorum voted to raise the debt ceiling 5 times among other things. The main FM talk radio here talked about how R-Money is pulling away. Plus Friday the biggest newspaper here endorsed the Goldman Sachs candidate.
Because of the negatives of Santorum and Gingrich, I think it would've been wiser to make a coalition with one of them (or even to switch to one now). They would be far easier to take out late in the game than Romney. Both of them are: 1) unlikeable, 2) more prone to gaffes, 3) a scarier prospect as the nominee. Who would be the crazier choice to the voter between Dr. Paul and one of them? The coin flip falls better in our favor.
Maybe Romney will stay in till the end no matter what, but he would be wasting his own money at that point (no passion means no donations flowing to him when the chips are down) and having to face the reality of running from the back of the pack when he's used to being the frontrunner. Does he have the guts to be the underdog/longshot? He withdrew from the last primary on Feb. 7th 2008, so my feeling is no.
You said it. Through all of these "frontrunners" I've always said it will come back to Romney (it's true, I can find my old posts, not just saying it after the fact) no one seems to notice that the "Anti-Romney" crowd seems to want to stay away from us almost as much as Romney, I really think if Santorum loses MI we will just see Newt surge again in the South, don't think it can happen? Just watch.
Golden Rule? Booooo. Go back to Texas!
Why make a coalition with one of the sure-to-be losers? This race has always been Romney's to lose... with Ron being the only 'dark horse' with enough organization to make a legitimate go at delegates.
Personally, I think Ron & Co's strategy to tag up with Romney until the other "not-Romney" candidates have fizzled = laser sharp.
The reason Ron hasn't really had a sustained surge since Iowa has more to do with the sub-par packaging of his message and 'brand' at the retail level. The stump-speech is minor league ball at best and the lack of any formal speeches has left the media with little to sink their teeth into since Dec '11 (when they first started covering his rallies).
Think back to 2008... remember how professionally packaged Obama's entire campaign/message was? Not just speeches and messaging either (which was poll tested depending on which state he was in). I'm talking all the way down to the staging of his election night rally speeches to the content & design of his website.
Team Paul still acts like a 'mom & pop' outfit... and as endearing as that may be to some of us, at the end of they day, the vast majority of Americans doesn't like or respect that. What they like is when ivy leaguers act like 'mom & pop' out the outside, but are McKinsey/Harvard/Google/Yale/etc on the inside. They may not say it outwardly, but they sense it just the same... because they see examples of it every day (Walmart, Home Depot, and pretty much any other national brand that serves 'average americans')
Because we want them to lose! Why team up with and help someone who is harder to beat? That makes no sense.We want to take out the stronger candidate now and face the weaker one down the stretch.
How long will it take them to fizzle? Long past the time that Dr. Paul has any hope of winning?Personally, I think Ron & Co's strategy to tag up with Romney until the other "not-Romney" candidates have fizzled = laser sharp.
Let's assume you're 100% right. I don't see Dr. Paul changing to that degree. He's not going to polish his presentation that much. That's more Romney's game. And if that's what it takes to win this, then Romney is the last guy we want to go head-to-head with. We want a Newt, who is equally unorthodox in the way he campaigns, or a Santorum who really depends on legwork and old-fashioned campaigning.The reason Ron hasn't really had a sustained surge since Iowa has more to do with the sub-par packaging of his message and 'brand' at the retail level. The stump-speech is minor league ball at best and the lack of any formal speeches has left the media with little to sink their teeth into since Dec '11 (when they first started covering his rallies).
Think back to 2008... remember how professionally packaged Obama's entire campaign/message was? Not just speeches and messaging either (which was poll tested depending on which state he was in). I'm talking all the way down to the staging of his election night rally speeches to the content & design of his website.
Team Paul still acts like a 'mom & pop' outfit... and as endearing as that may be to some of us, at the end of they day, the vast majority of Americans doesn't like or respect that. What they like is when ivy leaguers act like 'mom & pop' out the outside, but are McKinsey/Harvard/Google/Yale/etc on the inside. They may not say it outwardly, but they sense it just the same... because they see examples of it every day (Walmart, Home Depot, and pretty much any other national brand that serves 'average americans')
Actually, it's easier.
It's then harder to ever prove that it was done. Completely impossible, in most cases.
Think about it. In most of the caucus states so far (Iowa, Nevada, and Maine), hard, incontrovertible proof has come out as to incorrect tallies -- precincts that weren't counted correctly, or at all, etc. In none of the primaries so far has any hard proof come out showing incorrect tallies (though RP supporters dug up some statistical anomalies in SC). I guess this is because the political establishments in the caucus states are corrupt, while the political establishments in the primary states are honest and pure.
Last edited by helmuth_hubener; 02-27-2012 at 07:28 PM.
The media can't even grasp that there isn't a single "Michigan" primary to even win. It's winner-take-all by congressional district, so there's really like 15 "mini Michigan" primaries that could split in any number of ways for Romney, Santorum, or Paul.
"You cannot solve these problems with war." - Ron Paul
true. Predictable ho-hum ordinary doesn't boost ratings.
This is getting silly.T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato
We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me
what if Ron Pulls off a Win?
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I'm pretty sure these forums would erupt in utter pandemonium.
The way the comments are here I dunno if this IS a ron paul forum.... worst bunch of pessimism ever!!!! If ron paul won I think this forum would be stunned like they got passed a lit stick of dynamite!
Would love to see it happen
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I'd be ecstatic with a second, in either Michigan or Arizona.
They would certainly figure out a way if it was Ron Paul who won
We need to figure out how Santorum winning MI and Romney winning AZ is going to affect Washington. We need to make sure that Ron wins Washington. Winning Washington will put us in a very good position before super Tuesday. Washington might give us what we need to win 1 or more states on super tuesday XD... The fate of the USA/World lies in Washington!
What a fitting scenario.. Washington State... and George Washington. XD..
Not pessimism. Realism. Sometimes truth is hard to swallow.
i'm fine with chaos.
whatever word you want to use,it does not help morale.
some of us,have been swallowing pessimism/Realism for decades
" Be sure to get your very own Orgoonian™ Action Figure while supplies last."
Ex Gladio Libertas
Bend meetup video
YouTube - Ron Paul rally in Bend, Oregon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCVo1...eature=related
All your delegates are belong to us!
Personally I think we're better off if they all stay in it. I don't subscribe to this "anti-Romney" idea, head to head polls of Mitt vs Ron show Ron getting clobbered.
Absolutely positively a thousand times YES. We must be doing everything possible to win Washington.
Call friends. Phone from home. Bribe people. AND DRAG RON PAUL TO THE STATE.
WHY ISN'T HE THERE RIGHT NOW??????
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