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Thread: Fractional reserve lending versus.... what?

  1. #181

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Douglas View Post
    The fraud is not confined to the banking system, but extends into the marketplace as well.

    The marketplace is a poker table. You are playing with cash, not chips.
    *cough*
    At the poker table, you ARE playing with cash.
    The avatar picture of me, that's about $75,000 of FRN sitting in front of me - and it is real (unlike your thin-air "money").


    The chips simply make it easier to manage the pot (and, for novices, abstract them to believe they are not playing with real money), and for pros, something to do tricks with their fingers while waiting for the play.

    But it is cash, Steven.



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  3. #182

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Flag View Post
    *cough*
    At the poker table, you ARE playing with cash.
    The avatar picture of me, that's about $75,000 of FRN sitting in front of me - and it is real (unlike your thin-air "money").


    The chips simply make it easier to manage the pot (and, for novices, abstract them to believe they are not playing with real money), and for pros, something to do tricks with their fingers while waiting for the play.

    But it is cash, Steven.
    Lol. What are you scared to play with $100,000,000,000,000.00 notes? Give me a break... Real?

  4. #183

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I still don't like the argument that fractional reserve banking should be illegal because it inflates currency. That's more of an after effect. The true crime is a contractual violation.
    The true crime is the establishment of unequal treatment before the law, where only select privileged private parties may take advantage of the ability to leverage capital 10x with the backing of the monetary authority. This enables those with the privilege to extract money far and beyond any actual productivity involved in their work - and it has been abused to such an extent that Wall Street bonuses alone broke 1% of total GDP.

    The orgy of wealth transfer and collusion between the banks and the government has to end, and fractional reserve banking is at its heart.
    “If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”

    - SAMUEL ADAMS

  5. #184

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    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post
    Lol. What are you scared to play with $100,000,000,000,000.00 notes? Give me a break... Real?
    Yep, real.

    And whose note? If it is Zimbabwean, that's about 1/1,000 of a FRN

  6. #185

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Flag View Post
    Yep, real.

    And whose note? If it is Zimbabwean, that's about 1/1,000 of a FRN
    Both of which are funny money. They are not real. Real money is not funny money. When will you wake up? Before they toss you under the bus.. I hope.

  7. #186

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    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    The true crime is the establishment of unequal treatment before the law
    True.
    The day government obeys all of its own laws, only then we will be truly a nation of law.

    The orgy of wealth transfer and collusion between the banks and the government has to end, and fractional reserve banking is at its heart.
    The beast has many hearts - but only one head - called "government".
    You can stab in the FRB - and yes, it will scream.

    But you forget, the orgy of wealth transfer and collusion between banks occurred long before any FRB - it is an historical collusion.

    The government - the providers of legitimized violence - has a very marketable product. It is no surprise that it is bought, sold and traded. If you want to end the evil - you have to stop the provisioning of violence - and then and only then will there not so quite the marketable product available...

  8. #187

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    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post
    Both of which are funny money. They are not real. Real money is not funny money. When will you wake up? Before they toss you under the bus.. I hope.
    You were doing so good a while back... remember that "crackpot theory" thing, you're drifting back there again.

    Both are real and it isn't funny.

  9. #188

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Flag View Post
    You were doing so good a while back... remember that "crackpot theory" thing, you're drifting back there again.

    Both are real and it isn't funny.
    You have no idea what you are talking about.
    Last edited by Travlyr; 03-05-2012 at 08:32 AM.

  10. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Flag View Post
    You were doing so good a while back... remember that "crackpot theory" thing, you're drifting back there again.

    Both are real and it isn't funny.
    Becoming smarter than rocks is not all that hard. Murray N. Rothbard taught, "The Mystery of Banking." You can learn. If you choose. But to defend the FRN is dumb. It is dumber than rocks. Seriously Stupid. Unless you are royalty. Then defending the status quo is smart. Otherwise, they will throw you under the bus in a heartbeat.

  11. #190

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    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post
    Becoming smarter than rocks is not all that hard. Murray N. Rothbard taught, "The Mystery of Banking." You can learn. If you choose. But to defend the FRN is dumb. It is dumber than rocks. Seriously Stupid. Unless you are royalty. Then defending the status quo is smart. Otherwise, they will throw you under the bus in a heartbeat.
    I am not defending anything.

    I am explaining -to you- how reality works and whether or not you "get it", reality will still work its way.

    "You can ignore reason, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reason"

    FRN is money, get used to it and deal with it.

    Trying reading this for your own education - Rothbard's Mentor... von Mises

    Thus there would be an inevitable tendency for the less marketable of the series of goods used as media of exchange to be one by one rejected until at last only a single commodity remained, which was universally employed as a medium of exchange; in a word, money.

    http://mises.org/books/Theory_Money_...Part1_Ch1.aspx

  12. #191

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Flag View Post
    *cough*
    At the poker table, you ARE playing with cash.
    The avatar picture of me, that's about $75,000 of FRN sitting in front of me - and it is real (unlike your thin-air "money").

    The chips simply make it easier to manage the pot (and, for novices, abstract them to believe they are not playing with real money), and for pros, something to do tricks with their fingers while waiting for the play.

    But it is cash, Steven.
    Ooohh, wonderful. So they're not a promise to pay but payment itself? Very convenient. No need for casinos to even have windows so that you can "cash out" then, huh? As good as gold and all that. Yeah, must be a special casino, because in Vegas nobody would let me get a burger or drinks using chips.

    B-but...

    What if someone robs the casino? A huge inside job, one that wipes it completely out. Authorities raid the place and shut it down, even while you are in the middle of intense heads-up play. No big tournament with FRN's piled up for dramatic effect. This time it's just high stakes in a back room, no hoopla and no big pretty stack of FRN's in sight. What then?

    The bankrupt casino has none of that "other kind of cash" for you - that window is now permanently closed. But you weren't robbed, no siree. You have all those "cash" chips with you at the table, and you know how to idly shuffle that kind of "hard cash" with one hand. I know casinos in Vegas will often honor the chips of other casinos - if they have an agreement with them. But not bankrupt casinos. I'm pretty sure about that. Word spreads fast, and chips from bankrupt casinos are pretty much no good. So what then? Do you take that cash with you to Florida, buy a Snickers with them at a 7-11, gas up your tank, spend a few at Disneyworld, then plunk some of them down on a piece of land?

  13. #192

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Douglas View Post
    Ooohh, wonderful. So they're not a promise to pay but payment itself? Very convenient.
    They are.
    You can plunk them down, and buy a meal, a hotel room and pay your bar tab with them. You probably could buy some ladies for entertainment, but I didn't try that (married).

    You can take the chips from one casino and spend them in another - no hassle at all

    PS: We are talking about Vegas casinos here....


    No need for casinos to even have windows so that you can "cash out" then, huh?
    Just you won't accept Bolivars in the US, you have to convert to what the locals insist, or they won't trade.

    No different here - outside of Vegas, a store owner couldn't identify it or if it was "real" like they can in Vegas due to familiarity (or the lack of it).
    No big deal.
    You probably wouldn't know a Rai stone even if it fell on you nor what a Renminbi looks like either (vs a fake)....

    As good as gold and all that.
    Much, much better than gold.

    There would be no way you could buy a beer or lunch with a gold bar in Vegas without at least suffering a massive discount.
    Yeah, must be a special casino, because in Vegas nobody would let me get a burger or drinks using chips.
    You jest. It was no problem for me.

    Maybe because my chips were "bigger" than yours.....

  14. #193

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Douglas View Post
    What if someone robs the casino? A huge inside job, one that wipes it completely out.
    They have insurance for exactly that issue - their version of the FDIC.

    I mean, did you believe they didn't????

    It would be an unmitigated disaster for the entire gambling industry if a casino didn't honor chip to currency conversion - no one trust them again, and the whole industry would suffer a massive collapse.

    No sir, they protect themselves from that very, very, very well. Their livelihood depends on it.
    Last edited by Black Flag; 03-05-2012 at 08:16 PM.

  15. #194

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    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post
    Becoming smarter than rocks is not all that hard. Murray N. Rothbard taught, "The Mystery of Banking."
    Thanks for that (the book)
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..."
    I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  16. #195

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    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post
    Murray N. Rothbard taught, "The Mystery of Banking."
    You are welcome Jamesiv1.

    In that book, Rothbard does a great job explaining how counterfeiters came to power. How the elite connived themselves into the privilege of effortlessly printing $1, $5, $10, $20, $50, $100, $10,000, & $100,000 notes without doing any work. It costs them the same to print a $1 as it does to print $100,000 while it takes the average joe two years of labor to earn $100,000. It is very clever. "Daddy Warbucks" called it "elastic" money. He loved the stuff. That is why the Queen doesn't blink an eye to spending $1billion on a wedding. It costs the same as a $1.
    "Everyone who believes in freedom must work diligently for sound money, fully redeemable. Nothing else is compatible with the humanitarian goals of peace and prosperity." -- Ron Paul

    Brother Jonathan

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