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Thread: New light on drone war's death toll

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    Member Zippyjuan's Avatar
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    Default New light on drone war's death toll

    http://my.earthlink.net/article/top?...4-da171ac7b3c1

    SEBASTIAN ABBOT
    From Associated Press
    February 26, 2012 12:01 AM EST
    ISLAMABAD (AP) — American drone strikes inside Pakistan are killing far fewer civilians than many in the country are led to believe, according to a rare on-the-ground investigation by The Associated Press of 10 of the deadliest attacks in the past 18 months.

    The widespread perception in Pakistan that civilians, not militants, are the principal victims — a view that is fostered by leading right-wing politicians, clerics and the fighters themselves — fuels pervasive anti-American sentiment and, some argue, has swelled the ranks of al-Qaida and the Taliban.

    But an AP reporter who spoke to about 80 villagers at the sites of the 10 attacks in North Waziristan, the main sanctuary for militants in Pakistan's northwest tribal region along the Afghan border, was told that a significant majority of the dead were combatants.

    Indeed, the AP was told by the villagers that of at least 194 people killed in the attacks, about 70 percent — at least 138 — were militants. The remaining 56 were either civilians or tribal police, and 38 of them were killed in a single attack on March 17, 2011.

    Excluding that strike, which inflicted one of the worst civilian death tolls since the drone program started in Pakistan, nearly 90 percent of the people killed were militants, villagers said.

    But the civilian deaths in the covert CIA-run program raise legal and ethical concerns, especially given Washington's reluctance to speak openly about the strikes or compensate the families of innocent victims.

    U.S. officials who were shown the AP's findings rejected the accounts of any civilian casualties but declined to be quoted by name or make their own information public.

    The U.S. has carried out at least 280 attacks since 2004 in Pakistan's tribal region. The area is dangerous and off-limits to most reporters, and death tolls from the strikes usually rely on reports from Pakistani intelligence agents speaking on condition of anonymity.

    The numbers gathered by the AP turned out to be very close to those given by Pakistani intelligence on the day of each strike, the main difference being that the officials often did not distinguish between militants and civilians.
    More at link.

    One London-based group, the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, has published drone casualty figures based on media reports, witness testimony and other information. It said strikes have killed between 2,383 and 3,109 people, of whom 464 to 815 were civilians. That implies the percentage of militants killed was roughly 70 to 80 percent. The group said an unidentified U.S. counterterrorism official insisted its civilian casualty figures were much too high.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 02-25-2012 at 11:17 PM.
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  3. #2
    Member sgt150's Avatar
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    Reeks of Obama propaganda to me. If it's true then it's good news. But it still doesn't shield Obama from the war crimes he's committing.
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    Propaganda so they can continue on as they wish.

  5. #4

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    It said strikes have killed between 2,383 and 3,109 people, of whom 464 to 815 were civilians.
    That's a relief...
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerrockstar View Post
    Propaganda so they can continue on as they wish.
    Yea seems alike another media piece trying to make Obama's wars kosher.

    It said strikes have killed between 2,383 and 3,109 people, of whom 464 to 815 were civilians.

    Question for OP, let's assume for a minute that these numbers are accurate. Would you support an operation with this rate of civlian killings anywhere near your loved ones to take out sone bad guys nearby? Would Obama support such air strikes based often on questionable sources with their own agendas if his daughters were in the viccinity? I think parents/family members of innocent civilians being killed by these air raids may want to know answer to such questions.



    Obama said this few days ago to media:

    Video: Somalia Rescue Of Aid Worker Made Obama Think About His Daughters

    In an interview with Diane Sawyer, President Obama discussed the dramatic rescue of two aid workers who had been held by Somali pirates since October. Obama said of his call with the father of American hostage Jessica Buchanan, "I cannot imagine what he went through - given Malia and Sasha - and for him to be able to stay strong and then for our incredible men and women in uniform to do what they do, it makes you proud about this country."
    http://gothamist.com/2012/01/26/vide...aid_worker.php

    Has anyone from media asked Obama if he thinks about his daughters too when he reads news of Afghan children killed raid like this? Has he ever expressed sypmathy with parents of Afghan race who have lost their children as a result of the "good war" Obama (or his mastesr) have escalated?

    NATO airstrike in northern Afghanistan ‘kills eight children’
    11 February 2012

    MAHMUD-I-RAQI, AFGHANISTAN (BNO NEWS) -- An airstrike carried out by the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) on Wednesday has killed at least eight children, provincial officials said on Friday. An investigation has been launched.
    http://channel6newsonline.com/2012/0...ight-children/
    Last edited by moderate libertarian; 02-26-2012 at 10:57 AM.

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    Member flightlesskiwi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moderate libertarian View Post
    Yea seems alike another media piece trying to make Obama's wars kosher.




    Question for OP, let's assume for a minute that these numbers are accurate. Would you support an operation with this rate of civlian killings anywhere near your loved ones to take out sone bad guys nearby? Would Obama support such air strikes based often on questionable sources with their own agendas if his daughters were in the viccinity? I think parents/family members of innocent civilians being killed by these air raids may want to know answer to such questions.


    If you want to learn more about how swarming works as a method of attack, here's an article I wrote about it seven years ago. Benefits of swarming attacks include:

    It cuts the enemy target off from supply and communications.
    It adversely impacts the morale of the target.
    It makes a coordinated defense extremely difficult (resource allocation is intensely difficult).
    It radically increases the potential of surprise

    Here's your homework. Think about the swarming tech you see above in the context of the following:

    Drones and US Internal Security (as in: conventional weapons really don't matter).
    Drones in the US of A. Recent example of drones were used in a manhunt (just to prove it could be done).
    How a small group of global plutocrats can use software to control the world (Bots and Drones).
    hxxp://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2012/02/drone-swarms-are-here-1-minute-to-midnight.html

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