My relatives make 20k a year, and live better lifestyles than me making 100k

[onlyrp]

Sure, nobody is forcing them to work there. But keep in mind, if they weren't there, nobody would be taking your order and getting your food, etc. The establishments simply wouldn't exist.

I can live with that, can they? Look around you and ask if there's more people who need low paying jobs or more people who need waiters.

And if the manager was paying me the $17/hr I was making, he wouldn't be able to cover the cost of what I and the 20 other waitresses who worked there were worth.

Or he can simply hire more $3/hr people and the tips would add up to be less per person. There's quite a difference between $3 to $17. As far as "making the cost", if the consumer pays it anyway, wouldn't it just be passed on in form of raising price of each order?

Oh, and the silverware thing. That is one of the jobs of the waitress. Always has been. There is no position in the store created to do that and nobody else in any position would do it. Who wants to stand around waiting for silverware to wrap (since there is a finite amount and it is washed multiple times all day long and rewrapped)? No manager in their right mind would pay for that when the $3/hr person can do it in their duties.

I want to do that, and I'll gladly do it for $3 an hour if it was guaranteed 8 hours a day (if it were legal too). I'm not homeless or diseased, I'm not particularly poor or needy either, so save those insults. You're right, why should the manager do otherwise if somebody like you would it as part of their job? Sounds like you fully understand the power of the man with the buck (manager) but dislike it when the other guy (customer) wants to exercise it. You are perfectly comfortable telling me "I bust my ass, look at all the things I do" and defending the manager's decision to use you for cheap.

[onlyrp]

Hey guys, I have not read this thread since the day I made it. I am too busy in IRL to go over this right now. So to all the people who PMd me asking questions and what not, I might address them next week when the schedule cools down.

Good to see you back, take care and hope you have time to respond to my messages.

[LBennett76]

In the end, then manager can't do jack $#@! because he/she doesn't determine wages. Corporate headquartes does. He has zero control over how much anyone makes. Only privately owned food service establishments can set wages. Individual Bob Evans stores cannot. They can give minute raises, but that's it.
And no one would work for $3/hr less taxes. It wouldn't even pay rent/utilities. You might get a couple tanks of gas and some food out of the deal, but that's no use if you don't have a home (which you can't get hired if you don't have). So you're either independently wealthy and don't need the money to pay any bills whatsoever or you're bad at math. Not sure which. lol

[tttppp]

In the end, then manager can't do jack $#@! because he/she doesn't determine wages. Corporate headquartes does. He has zero control over how much anyone makes. Only privately owned food service establishments can set wages. Individual Bob Evans stores cannot. They can give minute raises, but that's it.
And no one would work for $3/hr less taxes. It wouldn't even pay rent/utilities. You might get a couple tanks of gas and some food out of the deal, but that's no use if you don't have a home (which you can't get hired if you don't have). So you're either independently wealthy and don't need the money to pay any bills whatsoever or you're bad at math. Not sure which. lol

If tips were removed, waiters' salaries would be bumped up to minimum wage, not $3. I've been able to get employees to do more than waiters do for just minimum wages. It can be done.

As far as flexible wages are concerned, we shouldn't shut down everything and place everything on tips just because some large corporations are not capable of giving their employees wage increases. This is actually a good thing. Smaller restaurants would be able to compete better with large corporations because they would be able to give their waiters who perform better higher wages, while the big corporations with their head up their ass would lose better waiters to smaller restaurants. How is that a bad thing? For once a system would favor the smaller and better run companies as opposed to the bigger crappier run companies.

[Danke]

//

[onlyrp]

In the end, then manager can't do jack $#@! because he/she doesn't determine wages. Corporate headquartes does. He has zero control over how much anyone makes. Only privately owned food service establishments can set wages. Individual Bob Evans stores cannot. They can give minute raises, but that's it.
And no one would work for $3/hr less taxes. It wouldn't even pay rent/utilities. You might get a couple tanks of gas and some food out of the deal, but that's no use if you don't have a home (which you can't get hired if you don't have). So you're either independently wealthy and don't need the money to pay any bills whatsoever or you're bad at math. Not sure which. lol

Corporate headquarters does indeed, if there is one, and only within what is legally allowed. When people say "manager" they typically don't make such a distinction, they just assume employers are in the power to do it. I currently don't need additional money to pay bills, I hope that's not a crime in your book, and no, I'm not bad a math, just ask the people in this thread.

[mport1]

I'm in a similar boat as the OP. However, I'm single and have no debts. I'm able to save a few thousand a year. I don't know how people with homes, families, etc. can do it.

[Domalais]

If you're single and making a 100K a year and you only save a few thousand... you blow my mind. I can't even imagine what your expenses must be.

[iGGz]

[/\]

[onlyrp]

Sooo explain how you are in a similar boat as the OP? Because it seems like you are in a totally different boat.

Yeah, I don't think this guy is complaining about how somebody making $20,000 is better off or even comparable to his lifestyle, but if I'm wrong, I'd love to hear it too.

[LBennett76]

Well, it must be nice to independently wealthy. No problem with that. But it's no wonder you think people could live off $3/hr... because NO ONE could unless they already had money. You were claiming plenty of people would be willing to work for it. But NO ONE would because no way in hell would it pay the bills. And you mentioned homeless people would work it but homeless people can't get hired. You can't get employment unless you have an address and phone number (and access to showers).
And I would never have waited tables for minimum wage. I drove 1/2 hour to work. I would have just worked at the Wendy's a mile from home instead (which I currently do as one of my two jobs). But I would have never been able to even pay rent. Working full time at minimum wage, a person would make roughly $950/month after taxes. So, they'd still be collecting welfare (which I've always refused). It wouldn't be so bad in a 2-person household, but a single person (especially one with a child) would be pretty darn hard-strapped.
I'm only arguing this point because I think some people have no concept of what being poor is. Like real poor. Not $50k/yr poor, but the people who are making $12k a year even while working full-time. And they can't get more because the entire area they live in is economically depressed and there are no better paying jobs unless you have a degree (which still doesn't help much). Around here the only good jobs are teachers, nurses, and coal mining. And most of them you have to know someone to get in. Hell, even the town cops are paid minimum wage. I got a medical secretary job out of pure luck. I don't even have a degree in it. Mine's in mental health technology which has proven to be absolutely useless. So this isn't a place where you can just "find something better". There is no better unless you move away, and even then there's no promises.

[onlyrp]

Well, it must be nice to independently wealthy. No problem with that. But it's no wonder you think people could live off $3/hr... because NO ONE could unless they already had money. You were claiming plenty of people would be willing to work for it. But NO ONE would because no way in hell would it pay the bills.

You are correct, that currently because we have certain social safety nets such as food stamps, unemployment insurance, welfare, $3/hr is less than not working if you qualify, but not everybody does and some run out.

And you mentioned homeless people would work it but homeless people can't get hired. You can't get employment unless you have an address and phone number (and access to showers).

according to you they wouldn't be hired because they're all diseased or toothless anyway.

And I would never have waited tables for minimum wage. I drove 1/2 hour to work. I would have just worked at the Wendy's a mile from home instead (which I currently do as one of my two jobs).

It doesn't surprise me you'd choose differently had situations been different.

But I would have never been able to even pay rent. Working full time at minimum wage, a person would make roughly $950/month after taxes. So, they'd still be collecting welfare (which I've always refused). It wouldn't be so bad in a 2-person household, but a single person (especially one with a child) would be pretty darn hard-strapped.

Understood, it would be very hard. I don't wish it on anybody, but I don't pay somebody because they're in need.

I'm only arguing this point because I think some people have no concept of what being poor is. Like real poor.

I have some concept because I've seen it, I can't say I've lived it, but I can say I've been very careful to avoid it, or I'd have easily slipped in like some have. I still know people who were recently homeless, most of the time it's their fault, luckily they learned, and were able to get back up.

Not $50k/yr poor, but the people who are making $12k a year even while working full-time. And they can't get more because the entire area they live in is economically depressed and there are no better paying jobs unless you have a degree (which still doesn't help much).

$50k/yr is not poor at all, anybody who says that's poor is just poor at math and finances.

Around here the only good jobs are teachers, nurses, and coal mining. And most of them you have to know someone to get in. Hell, even the town cops are paid minimum wage. I got a medical secretary job out of pure luck. I don't even have a degree in it. Mine's in mental health technology which has proven to be absolutely useless. So this isn't a place where you can just "find something better". There is no better unless you move away, and even then there's no promises.

That's exactly my point, there are no better choices and nobody owes you better choices. So while it sucks to be poor, I don't pay somebody just because they need money or just because I understand what it's like to be poor, that would be charity and sympathy. This further demonstrates the point, that your threat of "If you don't pay these people they'll stop being waiters and you won't have restuarants" isn't a threat to me at all, you've clearly admitted there's more people in need of low paying jobs than there are who need a service such as waiting tables.

In other words, the market where you are allows people to pay people less. I don't doubt within all possible qualified candidates, you're experienced and do better a job than average or most, but that doesn't mean your work is necessarily worth more than minimum wage, we have to take into consideration other things, such as, if we didn't offer you a waitress job, what alternatives would you have?

[tttppp]

Sure, nobody is forcing them to work there. But keep in mind, if they weren't there, nobody would be taking your order and getting your food, etc. The establishments simply wouldn't exist.
And if the manager was paying me the $17/hr I was making, he wouldn't be able to cover the cost of what I and the 20 other waitresses who worked there were worth.
Oh, and the silverware thing. That is one of the jobs of the waitress. Always has been. There is no position in the store created to do that and nobody else in any position would do it. Who wants to stand around waiting for silverware to wrap (since there is a finite amount and it is washed multiple times all day long and rewrapped)? No manager in their right mind would pay for that when the $3/hr person can do it in their duties.

Instead of having customers pay some arbitrary tips, the owners can simply raise the standard prices to cover your salaries.

Sorry to say this, but you guys were overpaid at $17/hr. I've gotten more out of people making just $7/hr.

[onlyrp]

Instead of having customers pay some arbitrary tips, the owners can simply raise the standard prices to cover your salaries.

Sorry to say this, but you guys were overpaid at $17/hr. I've gotten more out of people making just $7/hr.

This response is not intended to disagree with you, because I am with you, there's no reason the employer can't pick up the tab or find a fair salary that'll make tips irrelevant or unnecessary.

As for $17/hr, I'm open minded enough to consider, maybe her restaurant WAS especially overcrowded and understaffed, and maybe she WAS doing 2 people's jobs for the base pay of one, and her frequency of turning tables allowed her to earn it. Like I said, there's a long way between $3 to $17. Everybody has a price. There's no reason management can't hire more $3/hr people, or $6/hr people to balance out the time, this might mean less work for her, or less overall tips, but it may also mean she's "busting her ass" less. I don't need to judge or tell people what to do, I know they chose what they did based on what the alternatives are, for their own reasons.

[tttppp]

This response is not intended to disagree with you, because I am with you, there's no reason the employer can't pick up the tab or find a fair salary that'll make tips irrelevant or unnecessary.

As for $17/hr, I'm open minded enough to consider, maybe her restaurant WAS especially overcrowded and understaffed, and maybe she WAS doing 2 people's jobs for the base pay of one, and her frequency of turning tables allowed her to earn it. Like I said, there's a long way between $3 to $17. Everybody has a price. There's no reason management can't hire more $3/hr people, or $6/hr people to balance out the time, this might mean less work for her, or less overall tips, but it may also mean she's "busting her ass" less. I don't need to judge or tell people what to do, I know they chose what they did based on what the alternatives are, for their own reasons.

I really don't see why waiters can't just be paid hourly. I don't see what so special about them that they need tips. I've never seen a special performance by a waiter because they are on tips. They've always done the basics....take my order...get my food...get my bill. I've never seen someone really bust their ass for a tip.

When I purchase something, I just want to pay the purchase price. I don't want to be in some bidding war to get the company's employees to do their job.

$17/hour is good money for a job that does not require a college education. But you really don't need to pay that much for each waiter. There are plenty of minimum wage jobs that require more responsibility than a waiter. I should have considered being a waiter when I was in college.

[onlyrp]

I really don't see why waiters can't just be paid hourly. I don't see what so special about them that they need tips. I've never seen a special performance by a waiter because they are on tips. They've always done the basics....take my order...get my food...get my bill. I've never seen someone really bust their ass for a tip.

When I purchase something, I just want to pay the purchase price. I don't want to be in some bidding war to get the company's employees to do their job.

$17/hour is good money for a job that does not require a college education. But you really don't need to pay that much for each waiter. There are plenty of minimum wage jobs that require more responsibility than a waiter. I should have considered being a waiter when I was in college.

agreed, nothing to add

[LBennett76]

Not everyone made $17/hr. I did because I was good. I'd clean my own tables when we still had bussers, just so I could get more people sat more quickly. I picked up tables from other people because they were slower/too busy. I didn't mind "busting my ass" because I was making enough money that it was worth it. I made twice what a lot of other servers did. I would not have done it for minimum wage or less. There are far simpler jobs to work at for minimum wage. lol I got what I did because I had a personality and attitude that people liked. I sold myself. Actually I just was myself and it went over well. haha And what I made allowed me to go to college and rent a house for my son and myself. It helped me pay to get to a better place. I wasn't getting child support, so it was all me. Without what I was making I would still be stuck at a dead end. But here I am, a home-owner with 2 jobs within one mile of home, one being in the medical field which is a bigtime foot in the door. I LOVE my job. The Wendy's one that I hate is supplemental. If I didn't have it I could get food stamps, but still no health insurance. So I work it to pay for my high deductible health insurance and medical bills.
It's weird with waiting tables. I loved doing it and was paid well, but I couldn't imagine doing it for a career. But where I worked there are women who've been there for 25-30 years. And you know what. They're still making $3/hr + tips. They've never had a raise. It's kinda wild.
Question though, what kind of minimum wage jobs have more responsibility than a waiter? I would argue the closing shift at a fast food restaurant is one, because it does, but what else? Was just wondering what kind you were referring to?

[newbitech]

Not to belittle the OP because trust me I know what it's like to be belittled. Seriously though, I would love to make even 20k a year at this point. I can't get a company to take a shot on me for $#@! because of my CBR. Pretty much ANY payroll company that is NOT union are filtering candidates by even the most minor CBR. What does this mean? I survive through BARTER. I haven't filed taxes in going on 3 years. I owe the IRS NO money, and I basically earn NO MONEY. I have a ballooning student loan debt that started at 8k in 1996. I was in and out of forbearance as I kept trying to make school work through my career. Yeah I screwed up on that. I borrowed 8k and never paid it back. Now its at closing on on 15k. WHATEVER...

So yeah, I book no income and I survive. I have a cell phone. I don't get any government handouts. Life is hard. But I have friends, I have family, I have dogs, etc etc...

OP, really, you don't have it bad. Neither do the wall street people I recently read about complaining about having their bonuses capped at 140k.

I don't even have it bad, because guess what? We learn to adapt. I qualify for a whopping $200 a month in food assistance. LMAO.. Thats less than $7 a day.

The people in my network that do work, they realize, sometimes painfully that they could just as easy end up where I am at. All it takes is one time being in the wrong place. One mistake and all that you are complaining about comes crashing down.

You look at people on public assistance or whatever you want to call it. You think they are living it up because they have stuff you don't have. Or they don't have to work as hard. Guess what? Those people simply CANNOT get to where you are at. EVER. It's easy for you to think you can get to that point cause you are already there. Sure you worked hard for what you have. Everybody does.

Yes, there are lazy people and people who make stupid decisions. I could treat you like I have been treated and like I have heard other people be treated.

Why don't you get a better job? What don't you make better choices? Why are you being lazy and not working 2 jobs? and on and on. Know what? It doesn't matter. What matters is, you make what you want of your life and you look at yourself in the mirror at night and know that you are doing the best you can be doing.

What matters is that at the end of the day, you are happy because that is what you choose to be.

You do have choices. You can be like me and not pay taxes. You can be like me and live through barter. You can be like me and not deal with the IRS, student loans, etc etc...

But you know what? The things you are complaining about are the cost of your lifestyle. You pay for the privilege to participate in state sanctioned activities. It might be unfair, no one said it wasn't, but really, are you going to give up what you have for something you think someone else has?

I feel you OP. All up and down the income line it's the same exact complaint. Let me know when you are out on the street living your life happily. At that point, IMO then you can start criticizing how other people can be so miserable and yet have so much. Just like you probably would laugh at a person on wall street complaining about how it's not fair that he can't keep his 8 year old in a 32k/year private school. I laugh at you that you are complaining that you can't eat out, go to concerts, vacation.. etc etc..

I used to do all that stuff. But you know what? You can go to a concert and sit in the parking lot. Try it, you'll love it. Even when I worked I found that back to back to back to back 3 day weekends was much more refreshing than one long ass 2 week holiday then back to the grind. You can eat out if you redefine what that means. Grow some food, raise some chickens, etc etc.. then GO OUT to get them and cook them on a CAMPFIRE..

pitch a tent in your backyard..

Make your own entertainment.. try going a week with NO POWER and live off of candle light.. You might find it exciting..

Bro, we ALL feel the pain.. But trust me, NO ONE is better off than you are right now.. that is the proper attitude because of what is inside your mind, NOT outside your body.

[tttppp]

Not everyone made $17/hr. I did because I was good. I'd clean my own tables when we still had bussers, just so I could get more people sat more quickly. I picked up tables from other people because they were slower/too busy. I didn't mind "busting my ass" because I was making enough money that it was worth it. I made twice what a lot of other servers did. I would not have done it for minimum wage or less. There are far simpler jobs to work at for minimum wage. lol I got what I did because I had a personality and attitude that people liked. I sold myself. Actually I just was myself and it went over well. haha And what I made allowed me to go to college and rent a house for my son and myself. It helped me pay to get to a better place. I wasn't getting child support, so it was all me. Without what I was making I would still be stuck at a dead end. But here I am, a home-owner with 2 jobs within one mile of home, one being in the medical field which is a bigtime foot in the door. I LOVE my job. The Wendy's one that I hate is supplemental. If I didn't have it I could get food stamps, but still no health insurance. So I work it to pay for my high deductible health insurance and medical bills.
It's weird with waiting tables. I loved doing it and was paid well, but I couldn't imagine doing it for a career. But where I worked there are women who've been there for 25-30 years. And you know what. They're still making $3/hr + tips. They've never had a raise. It's kinda wild.
Question though, what kind of minimum wage jobs have more responsibility than a waiter? I would argue the closing shift at a fast food restaurant is one, because it does, but what else? Was just wondering what kind you were referring to?

It really depends on management as to which jobs have more responsibility. I used to work at a movie theater. When I was just at floor staff level, the management didn't hold staff accountable for anything. The employees had no responsibility and the customer service was lousy. When I worked my way up to supervisor then manager all that changed. Every employee had a responsibility and they were too accomplish it nomatter how busy we were. There were no excuses. I didn't make the employee schedule, so some days we would be so completely under staffed that anyone would say it impossible to get anything done. But we still found a way to get everything done. It was days like this where my employees worked significantly harder than any waiter I've seen, and did it for minimum wage.

Its really all about responsibility. If you hold employees accountable they will get the job done. Waving money in their face and begging them to work doesn't change anything.

[pcgame]

what did the OP and his wife major in

[onlyrp]

what did the OP and his wife major in

Everybody wants to know.

[pcgame]

bump

[MelissaWV]

what did the OP and his wife major in

Wild guess: Finance

[rpwi]

Fun thread

150k for a student loan to get a 100k is actually a GREAT deal (if you can get it). You can't take principal repayments into consideration when you calculate this though...have to look at this like an investment.

Take say 5% of the loan a year to calculate interest...that's 7,500 dollars a year. Unless you're previous job paid more than 100k - 7.5k...that's a terrific deal. Paying down the principal now is simply an investment choice. You can refinance into a longer term debt if needed.

As for these nasty comments about whole foods Nothing wrong with eating organic...in fact you'll be getting tastier food, less health problems and will be reducing the amount of pesticides that get into our groundwater supply. Now Whole Foods isn't cheap with certain items (like their fish)...but for some items they're great (like bulk ingredients...lentils, oats, that type of stuff). It's the processed foods and meats that give Whole Foods it's Whole Paycheck reputation. Plenty of alternatives to cheap organic goods. I eat mostly organic...but shop primarily from Trader Joes (terrific store), Costco and internet shopping (amazon isn't bad for organic foods). Whole Foods is still good for specialty items...but I don't get most of my stuff there.

As for living costs...seems the OP is doing a lot of things right. Maybe paying off more of your debt now...so you have more money to donate to charity might be a good idea for both you and the charity. Living close to work is so nice...can't fault you for this.

Didn't see a mention of hidden items like work retirement funds, life insurance, dental, health care...

One of the tricks to frugal living is with auto expenses. Never, ever buy new. Cars just lose too much money in depreciation. Rule I heard is if the engine or transmission doesn't go...it's always cheaper to fix the car. If you do need another car...lot of great deals from craigslist.com.

For 13 years, I've bought nothing but three used Toyotas for a combined 3500 dollars...and kept them alive with about 2000 worth of maintenance. Because the cars are so cheap I don't have to pay for collision insurance, nor do I have to pay a lot for sales tax...nor do I do have to pay interest on a loan. Saves a TON of money and I still have two of the Toyotas working fine.

The tax system certainly does discriminate against people who work in expensive neighborhoods. Earning 50k in rural South Dakota is sooo much different than earning that in Manhattan where everything is so much more expensive. Yet for society, it is more effecient for people to be living close together...so government shouldn't punish this.

[onlyrp]

Fun thread

150k for a student loan to get a 100k is actually a GREAT deal (if you can get it).

I couldn't agree more.

Most people with $50-100k student loans don't make $40k. If making $100K doesn't justify a $150K debt, I don't know what would. Does he expect to make $1M and pay off student debt in one year?

I wish he'd just come back and tell us some more.