My relatives make 20k a year, and live better lifestyles than me making 100k

[Aden]

This country sucks. I get so frustrated at times that I find myself wishing for a collapse in hopes that the welfare freebies go away. I just did my taxes, and had conversations--in one case, a heated argument--with family who did taxes too. Here is modern Amerika for you.

My wife and I are pulling in 85k - 100k a year. Because we "make so much," we do not qualify for government handouts. Between federal, state and local taxes, 30%+ of our income goes to government right off the bat. Then over 20% goes to student loans. We live in a nice two-bedroom apartment and can afford to eat healthy food (Whole Foods, organics, etc). But we are not rich--we have not been on vacation in almost four years; my wife has wanted/needed a new Macbook for a year but we can't afford one; we buy most of our clothes from the thrift store; we have only been out to eat two times since September; we never pay money for entertainment such as concerts, football games, movie theaters, etc.

Two different sets of relatives of mine make around 20k a year. In both families the wife does not work, only the husband. One of them makes like $10 an hour at a big-box store, the other probably makes $12ish at a hospital. One family is expecting a third child, the other the second. This means that both families get enough tax credits so that they get way more money than they pay in--one is getting almost $10k "back" this April. Whereas I have to pay my own medical bills, these guys get Medicaid; and for all I know are on food stamps and who knows what else. Both families seem to eat out as much as they want, pay for entertainment, and in the last 6 months have gone on vacation.

In short, because our government is playing Robbin Hood, we have relatives and families in my church who make a fraction of what we make, but live better lifestyles than we do.

[buenijo]

Either keep up the charity work, or go Galt... it's up to you.

[tod evans]

This is rampant!

[Noclone]

Moral of the story: Let your wife stay home with the kids... They will all thank you for it later in life.

[Noclone]

Oh, and to me, you need to manage your finances better. I guaranty if my income was simply 60k, I would be mopping up the Jones's. Sometimes it takes learning to live with so little to appreciate more. May I suggest trying to live off only one income and saving 100% of the other for just one year? Want to talk about pressurizing coal into a diamond. An idea that would be trumped for multiple excuses I'm sure, so let me know how that works out for you

[ctiger2]

Then over 20% goes to student loans.

You made a hefty investment for potential future income increases you're paying for now.

[CaptUSA]

Oh, and to me, you need to manage your finances better. I guaranty if my income was simply 60k, I would be mopping up the Jones's. Sometimes it takes learning to live with so little to appreciate more. May I suggest trying to live off only one income and saving 100% of the other for just one year? Want to talk about pressurizing coal into a diamond. An idea that would be trumped for multiple excuses I'm sure, so let me know how that works out for you

Yeah, I used to think the same thing. It's amazing how your expenses adjust to fit your income.

10 years ago, I only made 1/4 of what I do now, but I had just about the same possessions. Of course, now I have a family that I'm supporting. Trust me, if you go from making $25K to $100K, you won't even notice it. You'll be just as strapped as ever.

[Aden]

Oh, and to me, you need to manage your finances better. I guaranty if my income was simply 60k, I would be mopping up the Jones's. Sometimes it takes learning to live with so little to appreciate more. May I suggest trying to live off only one income and saving 100% of the other for just one year? Want to talk about pressurizing coal into a diamond. An idea that would be trumped for multiple excuses I'm sure, so let me know how that works out for you

No offense, but even without knowing you, I can already state that I live with less than you. I do not own a TV or pay for cable, you probably have both; I do not have Internet service in my house, you probably do; I have eaten out twice since September (this includes fast food, or something as simple as a burrito from a gas station), you surely have eaten out more than that this month alone; we do not use or pay for cell phones, you do; we have not gone to a movie theater, concert or sporting event in over five years, you have; we have not been on vacation (one that we did not even pay for, I might add) since 2008, you have; our $10 bed is from Craigslist and EVERY other piece of furniture was free from friends, family or Freecycle, you surely have some new furniture; this is the first winter we have paid to heat our house above 55 degrees, I know that your house has been warmer.

We want her to be a stay at home mom, but we made the mistake of taking out student loans for college. To pay well over $2k a month in student loans requires us to find good paying jobs; having good paying jobs means that over 30% of our income goes to taxes.

If you believe you live more simply than me, and it saves you money, tell me where so that I can adopt it and save more money myself.

[Inkblots]

I do not own a TV or pay for cable

You say that like it's a bad thing!

I do not have Internet service in my house

That, on the other hand, would be troublesome.

[brushfire]

poor people haters

/taunt

[Noclone]

No offense, but even without knowing you, I can already state that I live with less than you. I do not own a TV or pay for cable, you probably have both; I do not have Internet service in my house, you probably do; I have eaten out twice since September (this includes fast food, or something as simple as a burrito from a gas station), you surely have eaten out more than that this month alone; we do not use or pay for cell phones, you do; we have not gone to a movie theater, concert or sporting event in over five years, you have; we have not been on vacation (one that we did not even pay for, I might add) since 2008, you have; our $10 bed is from Craigslist and EVERY other piece of furniture was free from friends, family or Freecycle, you surely have some new furniture; this is the first winter we have paid to heat our house above 55 degrees, I know that your house has been warmer.

We want her to be a stay at home mom, but we made the mistake of taking out student loans for college. To pay well over $2k a month in student loans requires us to find good paying jobs; having good paying jobs means that over 30% of our income goes to taxes.

If you believe you live more simply than me, and it saves you money, tell me where so that I can adopt it and save more money myself.

You are wrong, and too assuming. Now, even if I did have all those things and had 100k income, I would not be in a hole. I did have most those things at one point in my life making 30k supporting a family. I still had a couple hundred dollars left over each month for savings. Tell me, How are you not saving at least 50k a year? You are getting ripped off somewhere, or simply not being truthful. Where DOES all that money go? Things just don't add up with this one.

[Aden]

You are wrong, and too assuming. Now, even if I did have all those things and had 100k income, I would not be in a hole. I did have most those things at one point in my life making 30k supporting a family. I still had a couple hundred dollars left over each month for savings. Tell me, How are you not saving at least 50k a year? You are getting ripped off somewhere, or simply not being truthful. Where DOES all that money go? Things just don't add up with this one.

Dude, read my first post. I just did my taxes this week and 28% of our income went to taxes last year. If we only want to be slaves to student loans for 10 years, instead of 15, 20 or 25, then WELL OVER 20% of our income goes to student loans. So, assuming that we were lucky enough to make 100k for 2012, after taxes and student loans we loose over 50k right off the bat.

[The Free Hornet]

You are wrong, and too assuming. Now, even if I did have all those things and had 100k income, I would not be in a hole. I did have most those things at one point in my life making 30k supporting a family. I still had a couple hundred dollars left over each month for savings. Tell me, How are you not saving at least 50k a year? You are getting ripped off somewhere, or simply not being truthful. Where DOES all that money go? Things just don't add up with this one.

Based on the numbers provided, taxes and student loads are $40-50k. This leaves $35k to $50k to live off (the initial income base is $85 to $100k). I'll assume housing takes $24k, and that leaves $11k to $26k. They mention healthcare costs ("Whereas I have to pay my own medical bills..."). $10k? $1k to $16k left without getting any food on the table.

The point is that they are not sponges but are supporting with taxes those who are.

[Aden]

I put 85-100 because one of us is on commission. Housing is only 12k because we rent an apartment within walking and biking distance to work. I don't feel comfortable talking about this, but we also give at least 10% to church, charity, etc.

The point is that they are not sponges but are supporting with taxes those who are.

Exactly. I hate to come on here and complain, I just had to vent to somewhere. Unfortunately, I've had feelings of bitterness creep up on me lately. This is because I sit around and hear people nonchalantly mention that medicaid is paying for them to have a kid, or that they are "getting back" a tax refund that is 5 - 10 times more than they paid in. I see them sponging off the system while simultaneously sporting new ipones, ipads, LCD TVs, and a bunch of other crap that we could not afford, even if we wanted them. So the bitterness creeps up because government steals from me to give to them, which enables them to live better lifestyles than me.

I know it's my own fault, for taking out student loans before I realized what a sham they are. I just needed to vent.

[youngbuck]

How much did you borrow in student loans? For what degree?

If you don't want to answer the second question, I understand.

[onlyrp]

This country sucks. I get so frustrated at times that I find myself wishing for a collapse in hopes that the welfare freebies go away. I just did my taxes, and had conversations--in one case, a heated argument--with family who did taxes too. Here is modern Amerika for you.

My wife and I are pulling in 85k - 100k a year. Because we "make so much," we do not qualify for government handouts. Between federal, state and local taxes, 30%+ of our income goes to government right off the bat. Then over 20% goes to student loans. We live in a nice two-bedroom apartment and can afford to eat healthy food (Whole Foods, organics, etc). But we are not rich--we have not been on vacation in almost four years; my wife has wanted/needed a new Macbook for a year but we can't afford one; we buy most of our clothes from the thrift store; we have only been out to eat two times since September; we never pay money for entertainment such as concerts, football games, movie theaters, etc.

Two different sets of relatives of mine make around 20k a year. In both families the wife does not work, only the husband. One of them makes like $10 an hour at a big-box store, the other probably makes $12ish at a hospital. One family is expecting a third child, the other the second. This means that both families get enough tax credits so that they get way more money than they pay in--one is getting almost $10k "back" this April. Whereas I have to pay my own medical bills, these guys get Medicaid; and for all I know are on food stamps and who knows what else. Both families seem to eat out as much as they want, pay for entertainment, and in the last 6 months have gone on vacation.

In short, because our government is playing Robbin Hood, we have relatives and families in my church who make a fraction of what we make, but live better lifestyles than we do.

Sorry, but living in a nice 2 bedroom apartment and eating whole foods are luxuries we don't get making $20,000.
Let's talk about these "better off" families. How much money do they SAVE each year? What kind of house do they live in?
What kind of food do they eat? Did they have the luxury of going to school and taking out a student loan that you did?
Do they have debts?

Be specific now, how much did you make last year, and the year before?
How much is taxed away? How much is paid to student loans?
What are your other expenses? Why can't you spend $1000 on a new computer? I find that VERY hard to believe, is your apartment costing you $2500 a month?

[well_met_sir]

10% of net or gross? If you are paying 10% of 100k that's 10k. You should be calculating the 10% from what you have left over after taxes and student loans, so 5k would make a lot more sense. Or better yet, that 10% should be adjusted by what you pay in taxes, so actually the church should be paying you I think that the problem is that churches came up with these 10% rules before the income tax became a huge problem.

[onlyrp]

How much did you borrow in student loans? For what degree?

If you don't want to answer the second question, I understand.

He definitely should answer that question, because it's a choice he made nonetheless.

[Aden]

Hey Onlyrp, maybe read more than the first post. I can understand not doing so if the thread is dozens of pages long, but this one has like one dozen posts.

[onlyrp]

I put 85-100 because one of us is on commission. Housing is only 12k because we rent an apartment within walking and biking distance to work. I don't feel comfortable talking about this, but we also give at least 10% to church, charity, etc.

Don't you think if you chose not to give to charity you'd be able to afford a laptop for yourself?
So you make choices, there is no reason you are getting less than the families making $20,000 a year. Even with all the benefits. I've heard these stories before, nothing is stopping you from taking a pay cut if you are so confident you can qualify for handouts and save money, be better off.

[Aden]

See, I should not have even brought up the charity thing. 1.) As a born-again Christian I believe that I am under no commandment to tithe 10%. Instead, I am to cheerfully give whatever I like from my heart. 2.) I am not going to stop giving to church and charity so that I can buy a laptop.

[Seraphim]

Don't you think if you chose not to give to charity you'd be able to afford a laptop for yourself?
So you make choices, there is no reason you are getting less than the families making $20,000 a year. Even with all the benefits. I've heard these stories before, nothing is stopping you from taking a pay cut if you are so confident you can qualify for handouts and save money, be better off.

Resident troll strikes again. Lol.

[onlyrp]

No offense, but even without knowing you, I can already state that I live with less than you. I do not own a TV or pay for cable, you probably have both; I do not have Internet service in my house, you probably do; I have eaten out twice since September (this includes fast food, or something as simple as a burrito from a gas station), you surely have eaten out more than that this month alone;

If I do eat out, I bet it's cheaper than Whole Foods, organics. I also don't have cable, I have internet and cell phone, but I am well aware it's a choice I make and don't complain about it. Don't feel bad speaking out for what it is, I'm not.

we do not use or pay for cell phones, you do; we have not gone to a movie theater, concert or sporting event in over five years, you have; we have not been on vacation (one that we did not even pay for, I might add) since 2008,

I do none of the above, except cellphone.

you have; our $10 bed is from Craigslist and EVERY other piece of furniture was free from friends, family or Freecycle, you surely have some new furniture; this is the first winter we have paid to heat our house above 55 degrees, I know that your house has been warmer.

Sounds a lot like me. So I am not seeing how you can't save up 50% of your gross income, that is, $50,000 a year.
So either I'm about to see you spend money on other things, or you are complaining that you can't save all of your $100K a year, as if the families making $20,000 a year can save even $5,000 a year.

We want her to be a stay at home mom, but we made the mistake of taking out student loans for college. To pay well over $2k a month in student loans requires us to find good paying jobs; having good paying jobs means that over 30% of our income goes to taxes.

How much loan total do you have? Why can't you pay off $30,000 a year? You MAKE $80K a year and don't seem to be spending much else.

If you believe you live more simply than me, and it saves you money, tell me where so that I can adopt it and save more money myself.

I don't have student loans, I don't eat organic. But you don't have cellphone, so that evens out for eating costs. I don't have kids, I made the decision since high school that kids are a money toilet. I also buy clothes at discount or used. I live on less than $1500 a month. My salary isnt stable, but I always manage to save money. I am still not seeing how you can be worse off than somebody making $20,000.

[dmo069]

We also give at least 10% to church, charity, etc.

There is your problem!!! Use that money to pay off your Debt!!!

[onlyrp]

See, I should not have even brought up the charity thing. 1.) As a born-again Christian I believe that I am under no commandment to tithe 10%. Instead, I am to cheerfully give whatever I like from my heart. 2.) I am not going to stop giving to church and charity so that I can buy a laptop.

You are complaining you can't have something somebody else has, that's not cheerful at all. Make up your mind.

[onlyrp]

Dude, read my first post. I just did my taxes this week and 28% of our income went to taxes last year. If we only want to be slaves to student loans for 10 years, instead of 15, 20 or 25, then WELL OVER 20% of our income goes to student loans. So, assuming that we were lucky enough to make 100k for 2012, after taxes and student loans we loose over 50k right off the bat.

That is a good choice to make, get out of debt, then you can start saving some money, I'll dig for a post where you talk about whether you put away money for savings each year, sounds like you can easily save $50K a year, but you probably dont due to charity and other priorities.

[onlyrp]

Based on the numbers provided, taxes and student loads are $40-50k. This leaves $35k to $50k to live off (the initial income base is $85 to $100k). I'll assume housing takes $24k, and that leaves $11k to $26k. They mention healthcare costs ("Whereas I have to pay my own medical bills..."). $10k? $1k to $16k left without getting any food on the table.

The point is that they are not sponges but are supporting with taxes those who are.

do you think the family who makes $20,000 a year gets to live in a $24k house and still have money after they eat (I'll generously assume they eat free from food stamps even)?

[onlyrp]

Unfortunately, I've had feelings of bitterness creep up on me lately.

I know it's my own fault, for taking out student loans before I realized what a sham they are. I just needed to vent.

Doesn't sound like cheerful giving to charity. Did you deduct for charity donations? I hope you did.

[Seraphim]

"easily" 50k a year? You flunked math didn't you?

They lose nearly that in taxes and rent alone.

That is a good choice to make, get out of debt, then you can start saving some money, I'll dig for a post where you talk about whether you put away money for savings each year, sounds like you can easily save $50K a year, but you probably dont due to charity and other priorities.

[AceNZ]

I put 85-100 because one of us is on commission. Housing is only 12k because we rent an apartment within walking and biking distance to work. I don't feel comfortable talking about this, but we also give at least 10% to church, charity, etc.

Exactly. I hate to come on here and complain, I just had to vent to somewhere. Unfortunately, I've had feelings of bitterness creep up on me lately. This is because I sit around and hear people nonchalantly mention that medicaid is paying for them to have a kid, or that they are "getting back" a tax refund that is 5 - 10 times more than they paid in. I see them sponging off the system while simultaneously sporting new ipones, ipads, LCD TVs, and a bunch of other crap that we could not afford, even if we wanted them. So the bitterness creeps up because government steals from me to give to them, which enables them to live better lifestyles than me.

I know it's my own fault, for taking out student loans before I realized what a sham they are. I just needed to vent.

Perhaps the reason you're not comfortable talking about your donations is because there's a bit of a contradiction here.

If you feel a moral obligation to give to others, consider the fact that government is forcibly doing it for you -- so you're donating twice. Personally, I like to make donations to charity, but only when it doesn't harm me or my family--which includes having a noticeable effect on our lifestyle.

Since it bothers you to see others sponging off of the system and living better than you, then why not "donate" to yourself instead?