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Thread: Anarchy Draws Near as Greece Flirts With Default

  1. #31

    Default End of Statism

    Quote Originally Posted by seeker4sho View Post
    I do not approve of Anachy but it is unfortunate the US is bypassing the Anarchy stage and going directly to a Dictatorship. If our government is successful, we are in for one hell of a future with or without the Anarchy stage.
    So you approve of the initiation of force and disagree with the non-agression principle? Or you have a different definition of Anarchy? Either way I got news for you. The end of statism will happen!



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  3. #32

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    Demigod....What makes you think that the people want the bailouts? Please don't tell me that you think the politicians represent the voice of the people?
    You lived like x10 beyond your means and now the time is up to pay. Kettle this is the Pot. Concern yourself with your (US) debt which makes Greece's look like an unpaid phone bill. What is going on financially in Greece is exactly what is happening is the US but the Fed just keeps the US afloat, what makes you think that all the tax payers will ever pay back the interest of these QE dumps? Why is Ron Paul calling to liquidate the debt? Do you even listen to Ron Paul or do you pick and choose what you like? Greece should liquidate its debt and the rest of Europe and the world will follow suit and we can all watch the banks sink into a pile of their own crap. Lets see if the IMF can take on the entire world.
    I for one do not believe that the US ppl wanted the bailout the Fed issued and the government swallowed....what do you call it QE 1, 2,3??? Not much is being done in the US by the ppl, aside from Ron Paul.
    And don't give me that the politicians took all the money cause you just lost the 13 and 14 salary with the new deal Again, kettle this is the pot, can you tell me where most of the TARP funding went or where a couple Trillion went missing? Demigod, you really are not making any sense or you are arguing and you don't know why
    I love my country, but I fear my government

  4. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by mczerone View Post
    Chaos draws near as the inevitable effects of statism are played out. Anarchy, asked to comment, replied "I don't have anything to do with this."
    Frankly I'm amazed how many people on this site seem to not get this joke!

  5. #34

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    Don't know how many of you have seen this article in the Times by a guest contributor from the John Adams Institute. Its a long and interesting read.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/ma..._r=1&ref=world

    I loved this quote, because unlike most of the Americans that Dr. Paul is trying to get engaged with their freedoms, most of us here understand that its about those who run the system.

    As Varoufakis writes in his recent book, “The Global Minotaur,” the world in which we have been living until recently functioned thanks to the voracious consumption of a different kind of beast. After World War II, the U.S. built up the infrastructure of its European allies as well as its former enemies, all of whom became trading partners. The U.S., with its great industrial and financial might, became the world’s surplus nation: its profits flowed out to its allies in the form of aid and investments. By the early 1970s, however, other countries had robust economies, and the U.S. was a debtor nation. “At that moment, certain very bright men within the American financial hierarchy made a stunning realization,” Varoufakis told me. The realization was that it didn’t matter if the U.S. was the biggest surplus or biggest debtor nation. What mattered was controlling the world’s primary currency, which would allow the United States to continue to recycle the global economic surplus. The idea was not unlike the thinking behind a casino — whichever gamblers are winning or losing, the house, which sets the terms and takes its cut, always wins.
    XNN
    "They sell us the president the same way they sell us our clothes and our cars. They sell us every thing from youth to religion the same time they sell us our wars. I want to know who the men in the shadows are. I want to hear somebody asking them why. They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are but theyre never the ones to fight or to die." - Jackson Browne Lives In The Balance

  6. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankRep View Post
    If Greece collapses, you'll get to see how "wonderful" Anarchy is.

    Also, you'll get to see how quickly Anarchy turns into a Dictatorship.
    These are common misconceptions of anarchy. The meaning of the word got seriously twisted by the mainstream media.
    Basically mainstream media got into people`s heads the idea that anarchy=chaos. Far from it.

    The famous A symbol in a circle(O letter) stands for "anarchy is order".

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam I am View Post
    Anarchy doesn't always have to lead to a dictatorship, but historically, It's always always led to some form of government
    Nope. Anarchy hasn`t lead to dictatorships. Chaos after a powergrab or after a revolution has lead to dictatorships, but that`s not the same thing.

    Anarchy is a very complex philosophical system that can be achieved only with like minded individuals. Anarchy is not a natural state which takes place after a government is toppled, in the absence of an enforcement authority!!!

    Too many people here are brainwashed on what anarchy means. Pick up some anarchist philosophy and get informed on the subject instead of just spewing mainstream media notions. You`re not doing anyone a favor. If you`re not knowledgeable on a subject, just say you don`t know about it and move along. It`s not a shame to admit you`re clueless in certain areas. I`ve read some books on anarchist philosophy but I`m still pretty much a novice on the subject.
    Last edited by JuicyG; 02-16-2012 at 06:13 AM.
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  7. #36

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    Once Greece goes , America has maybe two weeks itself.

    I am hearing two turning dates. Mark these down - Feb 21 and Mar 20. The later is the first set of bonds due by Greece to default.
    Be responsible. Take care of yourself. Don't tread on other people. Slow down. Question everything. Start now.

    We are all born libertarians then something goes really wrong. Despite this truth, most people are still libertarians yet not know it.

  8. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty74 View Post
    Once Greece goes , America has maybe two weeks itself.

    I am hearing two turning dates. Mark these down - Feb 21 and Mar 20. The later is the first set of bonds due by Greece to default.

    How Lindsay Williams-esque. I love when he goes on Alex Jones and tells listeners to mark things down, and then when the dates pass and nothing happens he comes on again and once more tells listeners to mark things down. Those dates come and go too and nothing happens, but Lindsay still has his following.

    Greece might completely implode. It might not. If it does, Europe might fall with it. Then again, Europe might not. Either way, the sun will still rise. The earth will still have natural resources, and all of us will still have the skills and talents that we had the day before. The world will not end.

    ....get your go-bags and escape routes together, though. Just in case.

  9. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty74 View Post
    Once Greece goes , America has maybe two weeks itself.

    I am hearing two turning dates. Mark these down - Feb 21 and Mar 20. The later is the first set of bonds due by Greece to default.
    That quick huh? I figured it would take atleast 2 more countries falling after Greece before the domino effect hits the U.S.
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  10. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNothing View Post
    How Lindsay Williams-esque. I love when he goes on Alex Jones and tells listeners to mark things down, and then when the dates pass and nothing happens he comes on again and once more tells listeners to mark things down. Those dates come and go too and nothing happens, but Lindsay still has his following.

    Greece might completely implode. It might not. If it does, Europe might fall with it. Then again, Europe might not. Either way, the sun will still rise. The earth will still have natural resources, and all of us will still have the skills and talents that we had the day before. The world will not end.

    ....get your go-bags and escape routes together, though. Just in case.
    There are variables that happen that can occur that displaces dates and time lines predictions. For an example, the Iran war has been in place for years. The war was suppose to happen two Decembers ago. Greece should have collapsed by now as well, hence the constant bailouts by ECB, IMF, etc.

    The dates mentioned above are not from Lindsay. They are from a European banker from the inside.

    The Greece collapse will happen. It's so elementary.
    Be responsible. Take care of yourself. Don't tread on other people. Slow down. Question everything. Start now.

    We are all born libertarians then something goes really wrong. Despite this truth, most people are still libertarians yet not know it.

  11. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by xFiFtyOnE View Post
    That quick huh? I figured it would take atleast 2 more countries falling after Greece before the domino effect hits the U.S.
    You're right, there will be other European countries like Spain, Portugal and Italy collapsing before America. The effects from across the Atlantic aren't going to be immediate and then severe overnight. Two weeks is when crap starts to fall apart here. How long that takes could be up to the government and FED.
    Be responsible. Take care of yourself. Don't tread on other people. Slow down. Question everything. Start now.

    We are all born libertarians then something goes really wrong. Despite this truth, most people are still libertarians yet not know it.

  12. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredom101 View Post
    Total BS. This has nothing to do with anarchy. Anarchy means "no ruler".

    Chaos is taking place in Greece, not anarchy.

    If there were no state, there would be no "vacuum" to take over. It's all in everyone's minds. If we agree that we do not own ourselves, that others can rule over us, then this cycle of violence will never end.
    Anarchy was the natural state of man. Why didn't it last? You need to figure that out if you expect to prevent a recurrence of the past.
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

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  13. #42

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    Isn't the Fed going to secretly bail out Greece?

  14. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    It's the government/police setting Athens ablaze.





    Dude, I know that some police are disguised in the crowd but I've seen video of hundreds of black wearing self described anarchists throwing molotovs at riot police and breaking off pieces of marble and concrete to chuck at them. Hell, I don't even disagree with them doing so, they're fucked over there but don't say it's the police setting the place on fire.

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    Greece fires are the worst to put out...if you use water it just makes it worser

  16. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by DerailingDaTrain View Post
    Dude, I know that some police are disguised in the crowd but I've seen video of hundreds of black wearing self described anarchists throwing molotovs at riot police and breaking off pieces of marble and concrete to chuck at them. Hell, I don't even disagree with them doing so, they're fucked over there but don't say it's the police setting the place on fire.
    Well, "Dude", I'm talking to friends who actually live over there and they have told me that all those wearing masks are with the government.

    Personally, I trust that more than what the MSM says.
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  17. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pericles View Post
    Anarchy was the natural state of man. Why didn't it last? You need to figure that out if you expect to prevent a recurrence of the past.
    It didn't last because evil people established the state to benefit themselves and brainwashed people to believe that it was necessary.
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  18. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Well, "Dude", I'm talking to friends who actually live over there and they have told me that all those wearing masks are with the government.

    Personally, I trust that more than what the MSM says.
    So every single person rioting in the streets is a cop? That is the most unbelievable statement I have ever heard. Why would the police throw molotovs at the police? Why would the police burn down buildings in Greece? There is no way that is possible. Face it, people are pissed, and they are burning stuff and rioting. IF you are correct then that would mean the government in Greece is responsible for one of the most massive conspiracies ever. I suppose the police just have a bunch of teenage police officers on hand to riot at a moment's notice and make the protestors look bad?

    Also, how do your friends who live over there know they are with the government? Seems like they wouldn't just divulge that information willingly. I'm sorry man and if I could find any proof other than a few undercover police officers dressed in black I'd definitely admit I am wrong but that is just not the case and I didn't get any of this from the MSM but instead from people who live there.

    I suppose all of these people in these videos are cops just trying to make people look bad:







    Last edited by DerailingDaTrain; 02-16-2012 at 04:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgt150 View Post
    It didn't last because evil people established the state to benefit themselves and brainwashed people to believe that it was necessary.
    Every Tribe had a Tribe Leader. As much as I can not stand our current Govt, I think that Govt is the natural progression of small Tribal Politics into a Larger Scale. Wolves have Alpha Males. Most pack animals have some sort of leader that the rest look to for guidance. At the same time, I do believe you are correct that evil people have manipulated the natural course of events into something that would benefit themselves at the expense of everything else.
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  20. #49
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    What they need are paintball guns or paint bombs not molotovs and rocks, smear the face shields of those protective masks and helmets and they're done

  21. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by DerailingDaTrain View Post
    So every single person rioting in the streets is a cop?
    There are a lot of Greek citizens protesting, yes. What I am talking about are the people in the masks. They are police/government and it is they who are doing most all of the destructive acts.

    That is the most unbelievable statement I have ever heard.
    But, you see, you made up the statement and then deemed it horrible.

    Why would the police throw molotovs at the police? Why would the police burn down buildings in Greece? There is no way that is possible.
    Possibly because they want to make it look like the Greek people are doing that, to take attention off of what the Greeks are upset about. It's all about swaying public opinion.

    Face it, people are pissed, and they are burning stuff and rioting. IF you are correct then that would mean the government in Greece is responsible for one of the most massive conspiracies ever. I suppose the police just have a bunch of teenage police officers on hand to riot at a moment's notice and make the protestors look bad?
    Yes, people are upset. Their country has been bankrupted. They are not being allowed to vote for their leaders. They don't want anything to do with the IMF.

    Maybe you are so shocked because you are not aware that this type of thing has happened numerous times in the past. It's not a new thing for police to do this. Very sad, yes.

    Also, how do your friends who live over there know they are with the government? Seems like they wouldn't just divulge that information willingly.I'm sorry man and if I could find any proof other than a few undercover police officers dressed in black I'd definitely admit I am wrong but that is just not the case and I didn't get any of this from the MSM but instead from people who live there.

    I suppose all of these people in these videos are cops just trying to make people look bad:
    In large part, the ones in masks appear to be the ones starting the fires and yes, they are with the government.
    Last edited by LibertyEagle; 02-17-2012 at 08:25 AM.
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  22. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    There are a lot of Greek citizens protesting, yes. What I am talking about are the people in the masks. They are police/government and it is they who are doing most all of the destructive acts.
    That is exactly who I am talking about. The people in the masks are the protestors not the government. Are you telling me there are no people in masks who are just citizens of Athens?

    But, you see, you made up the statement and then deemed it horrible.
    No.

    Possibly because they want to make it look like the Greek people are doing that, to take attention off of what the Greeks are upset about. It's all about swaying public opinion.
    Everyone knows what they are upset about and its reported all over the world in newspapers, on televesion, on the radio, etc. so that doesn't make sense for them to do any of this and then blame it on the protestors. If these people are police/government why don't the actual protestors grab them and make that individual stop? What are the police going to do? If they help the person then they are exposed as an undercover.

    In large part, the ones in masks appear to be the ones starting the fires and yes, they are with the government.
    Doesn't make any sense because it only makes the government look worse in the eyes of other countries for not being able to control its people or pull itself out of the horrible situation they are in. Dressing up in black and throwing molotovs at their own people doesn't accomplish anything that would interest them.
    Last edited by DerailingDaTrain; 02-17-2012 at 04:15 PM.

  23. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankRep View Post
    If Greece collapses, you'll get to see how "wonderful" Anarchy is.

    Also, you'll get to see how quickly Anarchy turns into a Dictatorship.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam I am View Post
    Anarchy doesn't always have to lead to a dictatorship, but historically, It's always always led to some form of government
    Quote Originally Posted by DerailingDaTrain View Post
    That is exactly who I am talking about. The people in the masks are the protestors not the government. Are you telling me there are no people in masks who are just citizens of Athens?



    No.



    Everyone knows what they are upset about and its reported all over the world in newspapers, on televesion, on the radio, etc. so that doesn't make sense for them to do any of this and then blame it on the protestors. If these people are police/government why don't the actual protestors grab them and make that individual stop? What are the police going to do? If they help the person then they are exposed as an undercover.



    Doesn't make any sense because it only makes the government look worse in the eyes of other countries for not being able to control its people or pull itself out of the horrible situation they are in. Dressing up in black and throwing molotovs at their own people doesn't accomplish anything that would interest them.
    Yeah, doesn`t make much sense unless it`s some kinda` blackmail strategy to get the money faster from Germany, making the cases that total chaos is close unless they pay up asap.
    Let`s get Ron Paul into top 10 to generate headlines. We need more people.

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  24. #53

    Default The Virtues of Defaulting

    When Debt is More Important Than People, The System Is Evil (February 18, 2012)

    http://engforum.pravda.ru/index.php?...ystem-is-evil/


    The Empire of Debt has only one end-point: a death spiral. It is evil and must be dismantled.
    Ethics has no place in the Empire of Debt. The financialized Status Quo is careful to limit the language used to describe the situation in Greece to the subtexts of "obligations" and "avoiding chaos."

    The reality being masked is that debt is now more important than people. The suffering of the people of Greece is presented as a footnote to the financial play being staged; when the suffering is noted, it is presented with a peculiar set of unspoken subtexts:

    1. Looky-loo detachment of the "gosh, look at that wrecked car, are there any bodies?" sort. People slow down to look at car crashes, and they revel in videos of riots with the same detached fascination with mayhem that doesn't involve them. Tsk tsk, how awful, etc.

    2. They're reaping what they sowed, "they made their bed, now they have to sleep in it," i.e. the suffering of Greek non-Elites is the richly deserved consequences of their government overborrowing.

    This begs further investigation. In the normal course of affairs in corrupt kleptocracies, various Elites siphon off most of the swag and the commoners get just enough shreds to buy their complicity. In other words, it may well be that the entire populace of Greece benefitted handsomely from the massive State borrowing, but it also may well be that the private-sector Greeks received little of the swag. In this case, they don't "deserve" to be forced into debt-serfdom by their Euroland overlords.

    The ethics of debt, at least in the officially sanctioned media, boils down to: nobody made them borrow all those euros, and so their suffering is just desserts.

    What's lost in this subtext is the responsibility of the lender. Yes, nobody forced Greece to borrow 200 billion euros (or whatever the true total may be), but then nobody forced the lenders to extend the credit in the first place.

    Consider an individual who is a visibly poor credit risk. He would like to borrow money to blow on consumption and then stiff the lender, but since he cannot create credit, he has to live within his means.

    Now a lender comes along who can create credit out of thin air (via fractional reserve banking) and offers this poor credit risk $100,000 in collateral-free debt at low rates of interest. Who is responsible for the creation and extension of credit? The borrower or the lender? Answer: the lender.

    In other words, if the lender is foolish enough to extend huge quantities of credit to a poor credit risk, then it's the lender who should suffer the losses when the borrower defaults.

    This is the basis of bankruptcy laws--or used to be the basis. When an over-extended borrower defaults, the debt is cleared, the lender takes the loss/writedown, and the borrower loses whatever collateral was pledged. He is left with the basics to carry on: his auto, clothing, his job, and so on. His credit rating is impaired, and it is now his responsibility to earn back a credible credit rating.

    The debt is discharged and the borrower must live within his means without relying on credit. But he is also free of the burdens of servicing the debt.

    If the lender is forced into insolvency due to the losses, then so be it: lenders that cannot differentiate between good and bad credit risks should go under and disappear: that's what happens in a competitive, transparent capitalist economy. Fools who create credit and extend it to poor credit risks must be eliminated from the system as quickly as possible lest they destroy more capital in the future.

    The potential for loss and actually bearing the consequences from irresponsible extensions of credit was unacceptable to the banking cartel, so they rewrote the laws. Now student loans in America cannot be discharged in bankruptcy court; they are permanent and must be carried and serviced until death. This is the acme of debt-serfdom.

    The global banking cartel has declared Greece's debts to be permanent and its people debt-serfs. More precisely, some privately held debt will be written down, but certainly not all of it, and the debt owed to the European Central Bank cannot be written down a single euro: Greece must pay the interest on the full debt, whatever the costs to its people.

    We might ask why the fully-financialized Status Quo of financial and political Elites so carefully insures no shadow of ethics passes over the Greek debt crisis: If they did, it would become obvious that when debt becomes more important than people, the system is evil and should be dismantled.

    Yes, evil, as in evil empire: the Empire of Debt that now dominates the global economy is intrinsically evil and cannot be salvaged; the only way to rid the planet of its parasitic, pervasive evil is to dismantle it, all of it, everywhere.

    Europe is a good place to start. The only way to dismantle the evil Empire of Debt is to stop obeying its commands: Greece should not pay a single euro on any of its debts, starting with debt owed to the Evil Empire of Debt's favorite tool, the Troika of the EU (European Union), the ECB and the IMF.

    We are constantly told default and exit from the debtors' prison of the euro would lead to chaos. Unfortunately for the Evil Empire of Debt and its Eurozone army of lackeys, toadies and apparatchiks, this claim is demonstrably false. Thanks to Pater Tenebrarum of the always excellent Acting Man financial blog, we have access to a 53-page report from Variant Perception that completely dismantles the fear-mongering claims of Apocalypse for the Greeks should their government default on its debts.

    A Primer on the Euro Breakup: Default, Exit and Devaluation as the Optimal Solution. The only way forward is default and exit from the debtors' prison of the euro.

    Once the debt has been renounced, Greece will have to live within its means, i.e. the goods and services produced by their economy. I think a critically important point has been lost in all the fear-mongering: the value of the goods and services produced by an economy remain the same whether they are valued in euros, gold, dollars, bat guano or any other open-market measure of value.

    What will impoverish Greece is paying interest on the mountain of debt. If we value total Greek output of goods and services at 100 quatloos, and this economic activity generates a surplus of 10 quatloos, the Greek people can decide to consume that 10 quatloos, invest it or some mix of the two.

    If they have to pay 10 quatloos in interest, then there is no capital left to invest in productive assets. As the existing productive assets degrade, wear out and become obsolete, then the goods and services produced will decline, along with the surplus generated. This sets up a positive feedback loop, i.e. a death spiral: as production of value declines, so too does the surplus available to invest in productive assets.

    This is why the only way forward is default and exit from the debtors' prison of the euro. The only way forward is to value people more than debt, and to dismantle the evil Empire of Debt.

  25. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiceGoing View Post
    When Debt is More Important Than People, The System Is Evil (February 18, 2012)

    http://engforum.pravda.ru/index.php?...ystem-is-evil/

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  26. #55

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    Gosh Frank, I would have thought YOU, of all people, would judge a statement, or essay in this case, by the standards of truth and not *labels*. However, in this strange world we now inhabit, RussiaToday, for example (the high-profile Youtube site) offers more truth to the world than "our" MSM - which should more properly be called, the propaganda/puppet Media.

    But if it makes you feel more comfortable, perhaps this reference will make you feel better??....Sheesh.


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  27. #56
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    Decision Day:

    http://news.yahoo.com/decision-day-2...014018909.html

    Diplomats and economists do not expect the package to resolve Greece's economic problems: that could take up to a decade or more - a bleak picture increasingly apparent to several thousand Greeks who demonstrated on Sunday against seemingly endless austerity measures.
    The ministers still need to agree new measures to square the numbers, given the ever-worsening state of the Greek economy. But they hope agreement on Monday will help restructure the country's vast debts, put it on a more stable financial footing and keep it inside the single currency zone.

    Senior officials from euro zone finance ministries and the European Central Bank held a conference call on Sunday to go over the final details of the 130-billion-euro programme, including a debt sustainability analysis critical to the IMF.
    - SUPPORT FREE TRADE, SMUGGLE -

    2 + 2 = 5.[/CENTER]

  28. #57

    Default

    Nothing like broken promises to get people all riled up.
    Last edited by QuickZ06; 02-20-2012 at 03:18 AM.
    "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

  29. #58

    Default

    Yay, a Greek golden age approacheth!

    Right?
    Stop the Looting and Start Prosecuting! Gold plated Tungsten IS Money!
    We Must Dissent A colher não existe.
    A government is just a body of people, notably, usually, ungoverned.

    "You mean this entire war started because The Empire dressed as the enemy? That's exactly what happened in the last major war! Our government is so stupid!"

  30. #59

  31. #60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DerailingDaTrain View Post
    Greece is the word
    They sorely need an authentic Miracle, too...
    Arwen:
    "From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring;
    Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be King."

    -The Lord of the Rings, The Return of the King

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