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Thread: IRS connected to the FED?

  1. #1

    IRS connected to the FED?

    I woke a coworker up using the powerful 30 min cartoon about the FED I found here and he is just wowed. Last week I was the cooky RP supporter, yesterday he said, "Last night at the gas station was the first time I actually saw the word FRN on my money and that shocked me".

    His big hangup question after watching many movies on the Rothschild family and such, is clarification based on the cartoon video. It shows the IRS taking in money from the US tax payers, and the money going out the back door to the FED. I tried explaining the budget from the congress isn't based on a pool of money we actually own, it is based on borrowing. He said the number one thing that would help him understand this, is some kind of graph or image showing the money going from the IRS to the FED. I admit, I know enough to be dangerous, but not all the ins and outs. How do I show this to him? TIA



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  3. #2
    the irs is a pump removing the excess frns from the system to keep the perception of value up.

  4. #3
    We are engineers, so he may like that analogy. I think it makes it clear. I would still like a picture or graph if anyone had something, although I do like this analogy.

    He felt like even though we pay x dollars to DoD, at the end of the day it goes back to the FED somehow, because the money has been allocated, but then funneled back there. I was explaining it is more of a vicious borrowing cycle, where we never end up on top, and the IRS is cutting a check to the FED to pay back money it loaned us in the first place to allow Congress to have a deficit in the first place.

  5. #4
    Watch America Freedom to Fascism, it's got all the answers and never been debunked...

    just kidding, it's debunked here
    http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsieg.../JustNoLaw.htm
    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/friv_tax.pdf

  6. #5
    The IRS is the distraction (or Bump) used to distract you while the fed
    picks your pocket through inflation - The fed takes away an obscene %
    of money (value) spread out over a person's lifetime. Without the IRS,
    people would wonder where all that money is coming from.

    The IRS is also a handy political weapon that can be used by those
    in power.

  7. #6
    The IRS is part of the US Treasury Department. The money the IRS collects goes to the US Treasury to pay the government's bills. It does not go through the Fed.

    Government borrowing is not related to the IRS but again is the Treasury. When the government spends more money than it takes in from the IRS, it then must borrow so the Treasury determines how much money the government needs to borrow and they issue debt. That debt is sold via auctions to investors which do not include the Federal Reserve. The Fed from time to time may decide to purchase Treasury notes and when it does, it makes its purchases on the open market from dealers. All purchasers of US debt get paid interest in exchange for loaning the US government money. Like all investors, the Fed does receive interest on its Treasury holdings (from the Treasury, not the IRS) but at the end of the year it turns all its profits (including the interest on their treasuries and they get revenue from other sources such as lending money to member banks) after expenses back to the Treasury. These remissions are greater than what they took in in interest on their Treasury holdings so it is actually a net profit for the government.

    If the Fed had no US debt the governemt would still borrow from other sources.

    The Fed currently holds about $1.6 trilliion of the $15 trillion outstanding US debt or 11%.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    The IRS is part of the US Treasury Department. The money the IRS collects goes to the US Treasury to pay the government's bills. It does not go through the Fed.

    Government borrowing is not related to the IRS but again is the Treasury. When the government spends more money than it takes in from the IRS, it then must borrow so the Treasury determines how much money the government needs to borrow and they issue debt. That debt is sold via auctions to investors which do not include the Federal Reserve. The Fed from time to time may decide to purchase Treasury notes and when it does, it makes its purchases on the open market from dealers. All purchasers of US debt get paid interest in exchange for loaning the US government money. Like all investors, the Fed does receive interest on its Treasury holdings (from the Treasury, not the IRS) but at the end of the year it turns all its profits (including the interest on their treasuries and they get revenue from other sources such as lending money to member banks) after expenses back to the Treasury. These remissions are greater than what they took in in interest on their Treasury holdings so it is actually a net profit for the government.

    If the Fed had no US debt the governemt would still borrow from other sources.

    The Fed currently holds about $1.6 trilliion of the $15 trillion outstanding US debt or 11%.
    +1

    It's astonishing the amount of MISINFORMATION that's being spread out there by many youtube videos & articles on the internet, etc which don't really have a clue about the system ACTUALLY works

    A lot of these misinformation is about Fed "charging interest to the govt" & IRS money going to Fed & what not I mean YES, Fed is bad bad bad BUT that doesn't mean people should go around saying things that simply are NOT true about Fed! Such misinformation, especially among Paul-supporters, could actually discredit the movement to a degree, I wish at least Paul-supporters should try & discuss things rather than going out there & saying things that simply aren't true, we need to reign in the conspiracy-theorist within ourselves sometimes

    I'd like to urge everyone here to NOT spread videos like "Money Masters", "Secret of Oz", "Zeitgeist" & whatever other crap is out there regarding Fed & banking, they may contain some misinformation (especially anti-gold-standard stuff ) as well as unnecessary sensationalization.

    If somebody wants a video to give to someone to inform them about Fed then use the following video, it's probably the most accurate out there as it's from fellow Austrians


    There is enormous inertia — a tyranny of the status quo — in private and especially governmental arrangements. Only a crisis — actual or perceived — produces real change. When that crisis occurs, the actions that are taken depend on the ideas that are lying around. That, I believe, is our basic function: to develop alternatives to existing policies, to keep them alive and available until the politically impossible becomes politically inevitable
    - Milton Friedman

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by mrsat_98 View Post
    the irs is a pump removing the excess frns from the system to keep the perception of value up.
    Exactly. At least that is one of the reasons I see it used for, though we got by without it before we had it.



    See the little bumps during earlier times of war? They were times that we introduced fake money into the system in order to finance them. You can see during some of them it looks like we nearly doubled the money supply and the bump rose showing the value falling. After the wars, in order to return the currency value to something we could bank on money had to be draw out of the system. They must of enacted some sort of tax to bring the money back to be destroyed.

    Look at the chart now. Not only does it look like we are at war with everyone, but with everyone for everything everywhere!

    I'm not sure how we can draw it back down now. One way would be to use Immanent Domain to restore ownership. Then you could start a new stable note and draw down the reserve notes some way like deem them null and void due to years of unrestrained counterfeiting.

    Ron Paul in 2012
    End the wars.
    Last edited by Carson; 02-12-2012 at 06:47 PM. Reason: Sometimes I even read it.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    The IRS is part of the US Treasury Department. The money the IRS collects goes to the US Treasury to pay the government's bills. It does not go through the Fed.

    Government borrowing is not related to the IRS but again is the Treasury. When the government spends more money than it takes in from the IRS, it then must borrow so the Treasury determines how much money the government needs to borrow and they issue debt. That debt is sold via auctions to investors which do not include the Federal Reserve. The Fed from time to time may decide to purchase Treasury notes and when it does, it makes its purchases on the open market from dealers. All purchasers of US debt get paid interest in exchange for loaning the US government money. Like all investors, the Fed does receive interest on its Treasury holdings (from the Treasury, not the IRS) but at the end of the year it turns all its profits (including the interest on their treasuries and they get revenue from other sources such as lending money to member banks) after expenses back to the Treasury. These remissions are greater than what they took in in interest on their Treasury holdings so it is actually a net profit for the government.

    If the Fed had no US debt the governemt would still borrow from other sources.

    The Fed currently holds about $1.6 trilliion of the $15 trillion outstanding US debt or 11%.
    Yet the average American can't figure out that simply canceling the Feds balance sheet of that $1.6 trillion of debt would at least be an easy step in the direction of getting some control over the US National Debt, otherwise the House at least would have passed this.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-actio...eld-by-the-fed

    Oh well, ignorant American voters continue to support stupid corrupt politicians who continue to be stupid and corrupt, nothing new here.
    Ron Paul: He irritates more idiots in fewer words than any American politician ever.

    NO MORE LIARS! Ron Paul 2012

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    The IRS is part of the US Treasury Department. The money the IRS collects goes to the US Treasury to pay the government's bills. It does not go through the Fed.

    Government borrowing is not related to the IRS but again is the Treasury. When the government spends more money than it takes in from the IRS, it then must borrow so the Treasury determines how much money the government needs to borrow and they issue debt. That debt is sold via auctions to investors which do not include the Federal Reserve. The Fed from time to time may decide to purchase Treasury notes and when it does, it makes its purchases on the open market from dealers. All purchasers of US debt get paid interest in exchange for loaning the US government money. Like all investors, the Fed does receive interest on its Treasury holdings (from the Treasury, not the IRS) but at the end of the year it turns all its profits (including the interest on their treasuries and they get revenue from other sources such as lending money to member banks) after expenses back to the Treasury. These remissions are greater than what they took in in interest on their Treasury holdings so it is actually a net profit for the government.

    If the Fed had no US debt the governemt would still borrow from other sources.

    The Fed currently holds about $1.6 trilliion of the $15 trillion outstanding US debt or 11%.
    +1

    I didn't know the Fed paid back its profits to the Treasury Dept. Seems like basic info I should know but for whatever reason either never heard it or forgot.

  13. #11
    Figures for 2011 not reported yet but in 2010 they earned a record $81.7 billion and turned $79.3 billion to the US Treasury.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...72L6D320110322
    (Reuters) - The Federal Reserve earned a record $81.7 billion in 2010, largely on investments made to help the economy and banks weather the 2007-2009 financial crisis, and turned the bulk of it over to the U.S. Treasury.

    According to audited financial statements, the U.S. central bank transferred $79.3 billion to Treasury's coffers last year, up from $47.4 billion in 2009 and a record turnover for a second straight year.

  14. #12
    Very simple. The IRS are the henchmen for the Fed. They are no more legal then the Fed themselves.
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    "I am convinced that there are more threats to American liberty within the 10 mile radius of my office on Capitol Hill than there are on the rest of the globe." -- Ron Paul

  15. #13
    I believe all the government numbers and especially what the Federal Reserve reports. No need for audits. That's crazy talk.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Feelgood View Post
    Very simple. The IRS are the henchmen for the Fed. They are no more legal then the Fed themselves.
    IRS does not work for the Fed. According to the US Constitution, Congress has
    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 02-12-2012 at 01:44 PM.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by paparazziparks View Post
    +1

    I didn't know the Fed paid back its profits to the Treasury Dept. Seems like basic info I should know but for whatever reason either never heard it or forgot.
    I think the way the rules are written and the way the news announcements are written they make you think it is all being paid back. I'm pretty sure they are keeping things like cost and 6%. Then they pay back some overage on that amount.

    What they take from our government must be a tiny fraction of what they are raking in, in the big picture.

    Wouldn't it be something if some day we saw an income tax return from them? Imagine if, between the shenanigans between them and the treasury, they came up with some capital gains on the fake money they pull out of somewhere. I suppose it would only mean they would just have to reach a little deeper.


    P.S. I could be sadly mistaken I suppose. They have created a deceptively complicated forest of trees and turn like a giant corn maze they want to lure you down.

    Anyway looking for the 6% thing I remembered, I was able to get this out of my Google-er.

    Thus the Federal Reserve has both private and public aspects.[14][15][16][17] The U.S. Government receives all of the system's annual profits, after a statutory dividend of 6% on member banks' capital investment is paid, and an account surplus is maintained. In 2010, the Federal Reserve made a profit of $82 billion and transferred $79 billion to the U.S. Treasury.[18] This was followed at the end of 2011 with a transfer of $77 billion in profits to the U.S. Treasury Department.[19]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System



    I also came across this article from a long time ago that I liked on the topic if anyone wants to check it out. I had it favorited.

    Our Monetary Mayhem Began With the Fed


    http://www.thenewamerican.com/history/american/946

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    IRS does not work for the Fed. According to the US Constitution, Congress has
    That doesn't prove anything.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.



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  20. #17
    Last edited by Danke; 02-13-2012 at 12:52 PM.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamC View Post
    Yet the average American can't figure out that simply canceling the Feds balance sheet of that $1.6 trillion of debt would at least be an easy step in the direction of getting some control over the US National Debt, otherwise the House at least would have passed this.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-actio...eld-by-the-fed

    Oh well, ignorant American voters continue to support stupid corrupt politicians who continue to be stupid and corrupt, nothing new here.
    I'm pretty sure that even if they haven't, they have had the means over the years to set up a system to expand their base of central banks and buy the politicians conducive to insuring an ever increasing loan base. Someone certainly seems to be behind the control of the worlds governments, borders, and their war departments.

    They might want to relinquish control easily.

    I couldn't think of a better miracle.



    I don't know where the word conducive came from when I used it above but it seems to fit.

    conducive
    [kuhn-doo-siv, -dyoo-]   Origin
    con·du·cive
       [kuhn-doo-siv, -dyoo-] Show IPA
    adjective
    tending to produce; conducing; contributive; helpful; favorable (usually followed by to ): Good eating habits are conducive to good health.

  22. #19
    IRS connected to the FED?

    No WAY . . . say it ain't SO . . . I can't BELIEVE it.

    Know this: If getting to the actual bottom of the HIGH CRIMES & MISDEMEANORS of Ivy League Secret Society Rule-The-World Schemers barricaded behind Lawyers & M.B.A.'s is required for us to THROW THE BUMS OUT, then we may just as well settle into THE NEW NORMAL.

    White Collar Criminals are always a step ahead, if address of their perfidy shall be legislative rather than prosecutorial.

    Like chasing pirate ships with row boats, and bullhorns.
    Last edited by cheapseats; 02-12-2012 at 07:33 PM.

  23. #20
    Something funny about the 6% thing reported.

    If we start with a number like 1,500,000,000,000.00 (15,000,000,000,000.00 debt?). Figure 6% you come up with a number about, 99,000,000,000.00 in interest. Plus somewhere you have a rule in the regulations stating they keep 6%.

    What kind of magic is then brought into play where suddenly you get some sort of number showing them keeping 6% out of the 6% of the interest. Something isn't right here.


    So then I drag myself out of the maze and just boil it down to if it was two people;

    Maybe this will help make the danger of fiat money clear.

    Imagine you and me are setting across from each other. We create enough money to represent all of the world's wealth. Each one of us has one SUPER Dollar in front of him.

    You own half of everything and so do I.

    I'm the government though. I get bribed into creating a Central Bank.

    You're not doing what I want you to be doing so I print up myself eight more SUPER Dollars to manipulate you with.

    All of a sudden your SUPER Dollar only represents one tenth of the wealth of the world!

    That isn't the only thing though. You need to get busy and get to work because YOU'VE BEEN STIFFED with the bill for the money I PRINTED UP to get YOU TO DO what I WANTED.

    That to me represents what has been happening to the economy, and us, and why so many of our occupations just can't keep up with the fake money presses.



    Maybe it's our turn to play the banker!

    Stable currency anyone?

  24. #21
    Thanks guys, I was afraid this thread was going to die with just a few replies a couple days ago. Glad to see it was revived and there were some helpful links and videos provided.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by paparazziparks View Post
    +1

    I didn't know the Fed paid back its profits to the Treasury Dept. Seems like basic info I should know but for whatever reason either never heard it or forgot.
    Yeah, too many conspiracy-theorists throwing BS about Fed & banking when they don't even actually understand the whole thing, & then people watch these videos & articles & whatever, which are basically HALF-TRUTH, & people it's all true
    I think people research things rather than watching videos like "Money Masters" & what not & taking their word for it, it'll definitely help a little others calling Ron Paul supporters "crazy" What we say should be based on reason, not mere speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Feelgood View Post
    Very simple. The IRS are the henchmen for the Fed. They are no more legal then the Fed themselves.
    No, they aren't

    IRS is the henchmen for US government, I don't know why people have a hard time believing that US government IS actually capable of spending all the money that comes thru IRS, it's like 1+ trillion I think while US government IS spending much much more than that

    As for "legal", it totally depends on how one defines "legal", they're instituted by the Congress & for now, 16th amendment is there so they're are as "legal" as the US government itself

    Quote Originally Posted by agitator View Post
    I believe all the government numbers and especially what the Federal Reserve reports. No need for audits. That's crazy talk.
    When one makes an assertion, it should have some reasonable basis to it; just because we don't like Fed or US government, shouldn't mean that we engage in baseless speculation; such a behavior will only enhance our "reputation" as being crazy, nutjobs, etc & thereby further alienate our fellow men

    Quote Originally Posted by cheapseats View Post
    IRS connected to the FED?

    No WAY . . . say it ain't SO . . . I can't BELIEVE it.
    IT AIN'T SO, just out of control conspiracy-theorists peddle it to sensationalize their videos & articles or just for their entertainment

    Quote Originally Posted by Carson View Post
    Something funny about the 6% thing reported.

    If we start with a number like 1,500,000,000,000.00 (15,000,000,000,000.00 debt?). Figure 6% you come up with a number about, 99,000,000,000.00 in interest. Plus somewhere you have a rule in the regulations stating they keep 6%.

    It's 6% of Fed's annual "profits", which includes interest "paid" by Treasury + other incomes such as interest earned on loans given to other banks & such; and all of these "profits" are usually pretty close to the interest "paid" by the Treasury or sometimes even more, which means Treasury gets more than it "paid"

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'd urge Paul-supporters to top buying into baseless conspiracy-theories peddled by sensationalists, US government IS capable of spending all the money it takes in, whether thru income-tax or all the other taxes & its hunger isn't satisfied by all that so it issues Treasuries/debt to borrow/suck even more out of the economy than it already has taken in thru all the taxes

    Fed IS part of government, the way it's been created - a hybrid of private & government sector - doesn't matter one bit, it's still a government-backed monopoly so it IS part of government, it allows the government to keep issuing debt & get it monetized by the Fed & thereby inflate moneysupply; so US government is NOT victim of Fed as some conspiracists are trying to make it seem

    This non-sense theory peddled by dishonest people like Bill SHILL is to make it seem like -
    oh, governments & politicians are all good it's the Fed & banksters that are the problem so we need take away Fed's ability to create money & let our honest, angelic, uncorrupt politicians create money & then we'll have a socialist-utopia (Yes, many of those who peddle this theory, including Bill SHILL & Ellen Brown & such want government & politicians to issue money & they oppose the gold-standard )

    In the times of economic distress, communism/socialism becomes more palatable to people & there will always be people who will wan to exploit people's susceptibility during such times
    There is enormous inertia — a tyranny of the status quo — in private and especially governmental arrangements. Only a crisis — actual or perceived — produces real change. When that crisis occurs, the actions that are taken depend on the ideas that are lying around. That, I believe, is our basic function: to develop alternatives to existing policies, to keep them alive and available until the politically impossible becomes politically inevitable
    - Milton Friedman

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Or Nothing II View Post
    Fed IS part of government, the way it's been created - a hybrid of private & government sector - doesn't matter one bit, it's still a government-backed monopoly so it IS part of government, it allows the government to keep issuing debt & get it monetized by the Fed & thereby inflate moneysupply; so US government is NOT victim of Fed as some conspiracists are trying to make it seem

    This non-sense theory peddled by dishonest people like Bill SHILL is to make it seem like -
    oh, governments & politicians are all good it's the Fed & banksters that are the problem so we need take away Fed's ability to create money & let our honest, angelic, uncorrupt politicians create money & then we'll have a socialist-utopia (Yes, many of those who peddle this theory, including Bill SHILL & Ellen Brown & such want government & politicians to issue money & they oppose the gold-standard )

    In the times of economic distress, communism/socialism becomes more palatable to people & there will always be people who will wan to exploit people's susceptibility during such times
    +rep just for that.

    The number one politician who agrees with Ron Paul about ending the Fed and commercial banks' "Evil Bankster Inflationary Lending" is Democrat Dennis Kucinich.



    That's Kucinich wanting Ron Paul as a running mate if he was ever the Democratic nominee for President, as Paul would have helped him eliminate the Fed and put an end to fractional reserve lending, if possible - but Kucinich has a different motive for wanting to do this...



    Kucinich wants to keep the printing press kept alive - to be able to have Congress transfer the counterfeiting role of the Fed under Treasury, given its magical ability to create money out of nothing and augment or circumvent taxation, Zimbabwe-style, by just spending money permanently into circulation.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Douglas View Post
    +rep just for that.

    The number one politician who agrees with Ron Paul about ending the Fed and commercial banks' "Evil Bankster Inflationary Lending" is Democrat Dennis Kucinich.



    That's Kucinich wanting Ron Paul as a running mate if he was ever the Democratic nominee for President, as Paul would have helped him eliminate the Fed and put an end to fractional reserve lending, if possible - but Kucinich has a different motive for wanting to do this...



    Kucinich wants to keep the printing press kept alive - to be able to have Congress transfer the counterfeiting role of the Fed under Treasury, given its magical ability to create money out of nothing and augment or circumvent taxation, Zimbabwe-style, by just spending money permanently into circulation.
    Yes, he was one of the Democrats to lead the charge against Fed along with Ron Paul but again, he's a typical socialist so can't expect much from him But it's horrifying how easily people buy into the theories of Stills & Kucinichs of the world that - banksters shouldn't issue money but politicians & governments should! Get out of here! And what I found really funny is him talking about Constitution not allowing for Fed to issue paper-money, well, he missed the fact that it doesn't allow even the government to issue paper-money, not to mention all the welfare that he loves so much!

    I'm sure he'll love issuing money to pay for all the welfare he wants & wasn't he the one who'd said "there are no illegal people, only undocumented citizens!" Seriously! Then why even call it a country & have borders just let anyone who wants to hop in come into the country & pay for their welfare & let's see how long the frenzy lasts
    Last edited by Paul Or Nothing II; 02-14-2012 at 08:36 AM.
    There is enormous inertia — a tyranny of the status quo — in private and especially governmental arrangements. Only a crisis — actual or perceived — produces real change. When that crisis occurs, the actions that are taken depend on the ideas that are lying around. That, I believe, is our basic function: to develop alternatives to existing policies, to keep them alive and available until the politically impossible becomes politically inevitable
    - Milton Friedman



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  29. #25
    Hmm let's see...

    Federal Reserve Act passed in 1913, check
    16th Amendment Ratified in 1913, check
    Connection between the FedRes and IRS, check

    That's just a surface scratch.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by newbitech View Post
    Hmm let's see...

    Federal Reserve Act passed in 1913, check
    16th Amendment Ratified in 1913, check
    Connection between the FedRes and IRS, check

    That's just a surface scratch.
    They came together because that was the pretty much the start of socialism & centralization within America but they don't have any direct relationship

    If you want to go to the bottom of the issue then check which Treasuries Fed has, then check the interest-rates payble on them & add them together & then realize that it will be pretty close to or less than Fed's "profits" that Fed handsover to the Treasury so all the interest "paid" is nothing more than accounting procedure

    And as I've said before, all these fake conspiracy-theories peddled by idiots like Bill Still do is make it easier for others to label Paul-supporters as crazy, nutjobs & alienates them from true purpose of liberty. What we say & believe should be based on reason, not some baseless conspiracies peddled by people who don't even understand what they're talking about.
    There is enormous inertia — a tyranny of the status quo — in private and especially governmental arrangements. Only a crisis — actual or perceived — produces real change. When that crisis occurs, the actions that are taken depend on the ideas that are lying around. That, I believe, is our basic function: to develop alternatives to existing policies, to keep them alive and available until the politically impossible becomes politically inevitable
    - Milton Friedman

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Or Nothing II View Post
    They came together because that was the pretty much the start of socialism & centralization within America but they don't have any direct relationship
    I think what they had in common was a) a fear-based collectivist nutjob mindset, along with b) those who were more than willing to exploit them to their own ends

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Or Nothing II View Post
    They came together because that was the pretty much the start of socialism & centralization within America but they don't have any direct relationship

    If you want to go to the bottom of the issue then check which Treasuries Fed has, then check the interest-rates payble on them & add them together & then realize that it will be pretty close to or less than Fed's "profits" that Fed handsover to the Treasury so all the interest "paid" is nothing more than accounting procedure

    And as I've said before, all these fake conspiracy-theories peddled by idiots like Bill Still do is make it easier for others to label Paul-supporters as crazy, nutjobs & alienates them from true purpose of liberty. What we say & believe should be based on reason, not some baseless conspiracies peddled by people who don't even understand what they're talking about.
    I see a direct connection. Both the IRS(Treasury) and Federal Reserve serve the same masters. We can go as deep in to it as we need to, but I think it is appropriate to point out that both entities derive their powers from the same source, centralize control of our economic system.

    Here is a direct connection for you. The Federal Reserve is the Treasury's Bank. That sound pretty direct to me. What does the Treasury's Bank do in regards to Internal Revenue aka Income tax? Well, one easy example is that the Bank clears checks for IRS receivables, AKA tax payments to the Federal Government. SO when your company complies with IRS laws, it has to set up an account at Treasury to send the money it collects from your paycheck. This account is managed by none other than the Federal Reserve Bank.

    That's a fact and a direct connection. Again, just a surface scratch and doesn't even go in to how the Treasury get's a loans from it's bank (and other entities) with IRS receivables aka Income tax as collateral.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Douglas View Post
    I think what they had in common was a) a fear-based collectivist nutjob mindset, along with b) those who were more than willing to exploit them to their own ends
    That's very true, I'd think the significant influx of European immigration during that period sort of diluted the "American way of thinking" as the immigrants also brought their socialist/communist thinking, which was becoming popular in Europe, into America & the populace as a whole started moving in the wrong direction

    Quote Originally Posted by newbitech View Post
    I see a direct connection. Both the IRS(Treasury) and Federal Reserve serve the same masters. We can go as deep in to it as we need to, but I think it is appropriate to point out that both entities derive their powers from the same source, centralize control of our economic system.

    Here is a direct connection for you. The Federal Reserve is the Treasury's Bank. That sound pretty direct to me. What does the Treasury's Bank do in regards to Internal Revenue aka Income tax? Well, one easy example is that the Bank clears checks for IRS receivables, AKA tax payments to the Federal Government. SO when your company complies with IRS laws, it has to set up an account at Treasury to send the money it collects from your paycheck. This account is managed by none other than the Federal Reserve Bank.

    That's a fact and a direct connection. Again, just a surface scratch and doesn't even go in to how the Treasury get's a loans from it's bank (and other entities) with IRS receivables aka Income tax as collateral.
    Again, it's just not factually true, you can believe what you want but facts just don't support it since Fed hands over nearly all of its "profits" to the Treasury every year - which includes, interest "paid" by the Treasury as well as other incomes of Fed such as interest on loans given to banks, etc - & as it ACTUALLY works, often Fed ends up handing over more money to the Treasury than Treasury supposedly "pays" to the Fed

    Just because Fed is bad doesn't mean we can say anything we want about it, it has to be factual or we're merely speculating & thereby leaving ourselves open to (just) criticism & that alienates people from liberty-movement; by that token, I could also start telling people that people at Fed eat babies or whatever, just because I dislike them but that just won't be reasonable & I'll only succeed in alienating people

    Let me reiterate, US government IS capable of squandering all the money that comes in thru all the taxes on welfare & warfare, I don't know why it surprises people so much!
    There is enormous inertia — a tyranny of the status quo — in private and especially governmental arrangements. Only a crisis — actual or perceived — produces real change. When that crisis occurs, the actions that are taken depend on the ideas that are lying around. That, I believe, is our basic function: to develop alternatives to existing policies, to keep them alive and available until the politically impossible becomes politically inevitable
    - Milton Friedman

  34. #30
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

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