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Thread: Common anti-palestinian arguments

  1. #1

    Default Common anti-palestinian arguments

    Hey guys. Help me counter these anti-palestinian arguments please!

    Arabs target Israeli civilians with bombs in highly populated areas while Israelis organise strategic hits at terrorists hotspots. Occasionally civilians are caught up in the fallout but at least Israelis do not deliberately target innocent civilians, unlike the Palestinians.
    Do you even know what goes on in Israel? There are rockets being fired on Israel by Hamas and other such terrorist organisations almost everyday. Secondly Israel also has to suicide bombers to contend with in the bigger cities. Suicide bombers alone have killed thousands of innocent Israelis. Propaganda means you don't see the attacks on Israels cities by more than just stones. It is time to wake up.
    Jews have never killed innocents , at least not like the Muslims and Europeans have

    but based on all the propaganda calling Jews heartless and saying they have killed innocents, it makes me wish they do

    A part of me wants to see the "Samson Option" as a last fuck you to the world

    even if I die I will die happy knowing all the enemies of the Jews are killed
    Jews and Arabs are both Semites and both native to the land. Why can't they just live together and share? If the Jews feel as if they were promised the land, then fine. Then live on that land and stop causing trouble to the people that lived there before you did. LIVE TOGETHER IN PEACE AND UNITY. KEEP ON SEEKING PEACE AND PURSUE IT. Hating, violence, and retaliation has never solved anything!
    Palestinians can't go anywhere in the Arab world...none want them.

    For example, when they lived under Jordanian rule, in the respective region that used to belong to Jordan, they were ostracized by the Jordanians because they would conduct terrorist actions there as well. Which is why Jordan never requested those lands (and its inhabitants) back to make peace with Israel. They were HAPPY we took them.
    jews killed millions?!? where and when exactly?! enlighten me please.

    and lets see, 850 nobel prizes were awarded between 1901 and 2011, JEWS won about 200! muslims won 7 (ROLF!!!) when jews are 0.002% of human population and muslims are 20%, you are a JOKE!!!! albert einstein, sigmund freud, John von Neumann, alan turing, Neils Bohr. and the list goes on and on!

    your computer was invented by jews you stupid chimp!

    just google "100 Scientists Who Shaped World History"
    the state of palestine never existed, the palestinians never have been sovereign and the land you call west-bank was taken from Jordan, not from the state of palestine... but that is not the point here.

    the point is that this state of palestine you so wish to establish has no intention living peacefully next to its neighbor.. in 2000, the palestinians were offered nearly 100% of what they asked for, but instead of agreeing or even giving a counteroffer, they chose violence (again).
    And to clarify, the Palestinians are trapped, aren't they? They cannot join Israel because of a ban on their checkpoints of some sort, and they can't simply gain a citizenship to another country?

    Thanks!



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  3. #2

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    The key problem with the Palestinians is that no one likes them any further than they are a useful cudgel to wield against Israel.

    The Palestinians won't be allowed to become Israelis as the birthrate differential would rapidly make today's Israelis and their descendants a minority in their own country.

    No other Arab country will take them after the wars they started in Jordan and Lebanon, and keeping them where they are keeps pressure on Israel.

    Third parties don't want them moved either, now that they have been there long enough that institutional inertia has a vested interest in the status quo.

    Personally I think one of three things needs to happen to come to any sort of stable resolution: a) a population swap like Pakistan/India; b) dispersion of the Palestinian population throughout Arab lands; or c) a gift of a new homeland for them, likely somewhere in Africa.
    “If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”

    - SAMUEL ADAMS

  4. #3

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    Interesting. Anything tackling the arguments I've posted one by one though? ^^

  5. #4

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    Can't really refute them, as they are for the most part factually correct.
    “If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”

    - SAMUEL ADAMS

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    The key problem with the Palestinians is that no one likes them any further than they are a useful cudgel to wield against Israel.

    The Palestinians won't be allowed to become Israelis as the birthrate differential would rapidly make today's Israelis and their descendants a minority in their own country.

    No other Arab country will take them after the wars they started in Jordan and Lebanon, and keeping them where they are keeps pressure on Israel.

    Third parties don't want them moved either, now that they have been there long enough that institutional inertia has a vested interest in the status quo.

    Personally I think one of three things needs to happen to come to any sort of stable resolution: a) a population swap like Pakistan/India; b) dispersion of the Palestinian population throughout Arab lands; or c) a gift of a new homeland for them, likely somewhere in Africa.
    Man... a) Never gonna happen for reasons you have already outlines, and because I don't think the Palestinians want to leave their ancestral homes. b)LOLWUT? c)Yeah, because the British "regift" of Palestine to the Jews worked out so well for both parties...

    Hey Lishy, on the first point, there can be no justifying indiscriminate rocket fire... there can also be no justifying of indiscriminate home demolition via armored bulldozer. If the fulcrum there is that Israel "does not actively target" civilians, then perhaps Palestinian rockets are "targeted" at military installations and simply land elsewhere (quite common with Israeli munitions if I understand correctly). So in both cases we have civilians being killed, one side gets to call it collateral damage but the to the other side is applied the synonym of murder? It is impossible to defend a statement like that, unless your arguing with a fascist that believes certain people are inherently above others. Or a communist that is going to believe, ala Orwell, some people are more equal than others. Does this help?

    Also, it is often forgotten that when the European Jews were fleeing Hitlers genocide, Palestinians accepted more refugees than any country besides the USA. Some will say that was a British mandate, but the fact is on day one the Palestinians could have run the jews into the sea. This did not happen.

    It sounds like your in an argument with Jewish Facists... sorry dude sometimes you just gotta walk away. In Israel there is mandatory enslavement, I mean conscription. Its hard to argue with people that have been thoroughly indoctrinated into hate.
    Last edited by bolil; 02-09-2012 at 01:16 PM.
    Best of luck in life.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lishy View Post
    Interesting. Anything tackling the arguments I've posted one by one though? ^^
    Pay no mind to thoughtomator. He is bought and sold into the false paradigm and apparently has no grasp of recent history only MSM memes.

    Palestinians fire the equivalent of high powered bottle rockets with no guidance systems. They most frequently land in empty lots. Operation Cast Lead is undeniable proof that Israelis target any and all palestinians as warfighters. Even babies who they had Tshirts made about killing.

    Every day the Palestinians are humiliated and cannot move freely. Women are forced to give birth at checkpoints because the soldiers will not allow them to cross to the hospital nor an ambulance retrieve them. Being throughly pissed about this multi-decade state of affairs some of them firs bottle rockets at Israel or throw shoes at checkpoints and the Israelis respond with Nazi-esque blitzkreig tactics like they are the remnants of the Third Reich.

    Khazarian/Ashkenazi Jews are not semites. The Sephardic Jews are. The Ashkenazi treat the Sephardics with the same type of contempt they have for the Palestinians...that of a conquered people under the victors boot. No intermarriage without disgrace etc.

    Ashkenazi Jews killed tens of millions of Orthodox Christians in Russia during the revolution and the communist regimes.

    The computer was invented by Englishman..not Brit...Babbits and refined into more compact form over the centuries. Einstein's famous constant C is wrong. The Nobel board was hamstrung with zionists. They gave Obama a frikkin' peace prize fer fuxaches. I could go into energetics and physics and the greats of English science in the 1800's to refute the supposed genius of the Jews and show the English and Scots were nailing the whole physics structure down and had broken the keys to universal physics. Then some money guys didn't like the idea they couldn't meter the energy output so they changed the fundamental quadratic equations of electromagnetism and quelled work by Keely and Lord Rutherford to name a few, so only closed circuits could be designed, leading to suppression of free energy devices and a wrong headed, resistive and destructive bent to the sciences involved.

    I am so frikkin' tired of these self important asswipes. Calling us chimps? I didn't crawl off no Savanna and neither did my ancestors. Seriously. They can bulldoze over a young American girl and then go about shutting down memorial plays to her heroic death with further threats based on their self importance. They got a big whackstick coming from universal kharma.

    I know you are Jewish but i sense you do not stand with these types. You have a humble attitude about your faith, much like the True Torah Jews who I admire for standing up for their faith against the dogma of zionism, which leads to territorial expansion, the main cause of violent deaths in written history.


    Rev9
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  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution9 View Post
    Palestinians fire the equivalent of high powered bottle rockets with no guidance systems. They most frequently land in empty lots. Operation Cast Lead is undeniable proof that Israelis target any and all palestinians as warfighters. Even babies who they had Tshirts made about killing.
    Interesting. Any reliable sources about the innocent Palestinian causalities, especially those being children wearing t-shirts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution9 View Post
    Every day the Palestinians are humiliated and cannot move freely. Women are forced to give birth at checkpoints because the soldiers will not allow them to cross to the hospital nor an ambulance retrieve them. Being throughly pissed about this multi-decade state of affairs some of them firs bottle rockets at Israel or throw shoes at checkpoints and the Israelis respond with Nazi-esque blitzkreig tactics like they are the remnants of the Third Reich.
    Interesting too, but I need sources to back up any future arguments I may make ^^

    I'm not too educated on the issue however. Are Palestinians trapped in their own territory, unable to leave, like a prison?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution9 View Post
    Khazarian/Ashkenazi Jews are not semites. The Sephardic Jews are. The Ashkenazi treat the Sephardics with the same type of contempt they have for the Palestinians...that of a conquered people under the victors boot. No intermarriage without disgrace etc.
    I have actually heard about discrimination against the Sephardics, but I'm not thoroughly educated. Mind explaining the specifics to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution9 View Post
    Ashkenazi Jews killed tens of millions of Orthodox Christians in Russia during the revolution and the communist regimes.
    Interesting, but mind clarifying this too for me please?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution9 View Post
    The computer was invented by Englishman..not Brit...Babbits and refined into more compact form over the centuries. Einstein's famous constant C is wrong. The Nobel board was hamstrung with zionists. They gave Obama a frikkin' peace prize fer fuxaches. I could go into energetics and physics and the greats of English science in the 1800's to refute the supposed genius of the Jews and show the English and Scots were nailing the whole physics structure down and had broken the keys to universal physics. Then some money guys didn't like the idea they couldn't meter the energy output so they changed the fundamental quadratic equations of electromagnetism and quelled work by Keely and Lord Rutherford to name a few, so only closed circuits could be designed, leading to suppression of free energy devices and a wrong headed, resistive and destructive bent to the sciences involved.
    Huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution9 View Post
    I am so frikkin' tired of these self important asswipes. Calling us chimps? I didn't crawl off no Savanna and neither did my ancestors. Seriously. They can bulldoze over a young American girl and then go about shutting down memorial plays to her heroic death with further threats based on their self importance. They got a big whackstick coming from universal kharma.
    Who called us chimps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution9 View Post
    I know you are Jewish but i sense you do not stand with these types. You have a humble attitude about your faith, much like the True Torah Jews who I admire for standing up for their faith against the dogma of zionism, which leads to territorial expansion, the main cause of violent deaths in written history.
    I actually like to think of myself as a Jewish Atheist
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_atheism

    I do believe in Zionism to an extent, but modern day Israel certainly isn't our sanctuary. Rather, I find it to be an anti-Semitic state which endangers Jews more than it protects them. By angering its Arab neighbors and mistreating the Palestinian natives, Israel is creating more enemies for us than it prevents, and furthermore it gives birth and fuel to movements like the David Duke movement. It is even flawed in its own sovereignty because it depends upon such large levels of aid and support from other countries in the world. This makes Israel more of a military proxy state bought and run by Western Governments, rather than a Jewish homeland.

    Though more than Zionism, I feel justice is more important. It's nonsensical that the Prime Minister of Canada - Stephen Harper for example, steals our money and resources to give to Israel, with nothing in return. Furthermore, we have no obligation, nor' responsibility, to support a regime which bases itself on the blood and repression of another culture.

    And I certainly don't feel it's fair either how Western Media paints the Palestinians as suicide bombers who hate Jews and Israel "Just 'cause". It's just like when the media shows anti-American protests and say it is a "concern". They never show their motivation for such things in the first place! And people can act so stupid, they think "Oh those craaaazy Arabs again!"

    Arabs today are more repressed than blacks ever were. They live under dictatorship, they're wrongly judged and painted throughout the rest world, they're trapped in war, and their lands are exploited by other states more than any other culture in the world!

    I also find it stupid about how soooo many Christians talk as if Israel is important to them. I'm a Jew, and I carry the Jewish blood. If they don't listen to me as one of the "Poor Jews affected by these unfortunate events to Israel", then they need to just shut up and NEVER get involved with these topics until they're educated! Watching Christians talk about how "important" Israel is to them, when they've never even been there, is like watching a white person who thinks they're black!

    And do so many western politicians have some sort of Jew fetish or something!? Are they so perverse that when a Jew is right in front of them, they keep thinking with their cocks instead of actually listening to them!?

    In all seriousness, making unrelated cultures "obligated" to support Israel is the stupidest thing I've ever heard!

    If anyone should take responsibility for Israel, it is the British. Because they were the ones who created Israel, and it should be their responsibility to solve this mess! Why is it the rest of the world's responsibility to pay for their military state and to die for their land!? We have our own countries to live for!

    To clarify, I'm not presently in any arguments. Though considering I'm surrounded by so many idiots who spout off crap before doing their research, why shouldn't I get educated? The arguments from my first post are from the youtube video where Prime Minister of Canada - Stephen Harper is making a speech titled "I Will Defend Israel 'whatever the cost'". By that title alone, you may be able to understand why I'm pissed.

    My mom also frequently says crap like "If we ever had to take refuge somewhere, Israel is the ONLY country in the world which will accept us because we're Jewish", which is a stupid, because what about Canadians who AREN'T Jewish!? Why must they pay???

    I mean, if we want to support Israel, we're free to donate. That's perfectly fine. But demanding the theft of money, resources, and our servicemen in the name Israel? How the hell do they even believe that's justified!?

    Being surrounded by such people, I feel it's very important I learn reality, and how to counter such typical arguments. Help is appreciated!

    (Though, I guess the first step to ending this madness is Ron Paul 2012...)
    Last edited by Lishy; 02-09-2012 at 03:06 PM.

  9. #8

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    Just to clarify, I wasn't saying that as in all Jews are fascist, but like any other religion/ethnic group some certainly are.
    Best of luck in life.

  10. #9

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    Hi Lishy. I can much appreciate your sentiment because as a human being that is how I feel about it. As for information sources. Each of these can be googled. For the Palestinian issue I will bet that if you will google the name Rachel Corrie and read her story that there will be links to the crisis of the Palestinians. They bulldozed this brave young American girl into the ground and murdered her because she stood in the way of the regime demolishing the home of a Palestinian family. Subsequently in America and Canada plays were written about her and any theatre that dared try to put it on was shut down with waves of extortion and threats of funding being pulled, death threats to the directors etc,.

    The judeo-xtians enamored of Israel are being led down the garden path to a snakepit. This is not the tenets of true Christianity but a heresy introduced by the fraud Scofield and his Zionist revisioned Bible.

    This is such a deep subject I don't know where to start but I would suggest for the historical background of how zionism uses Jews as a shield Douglas Reed's "The Controversy of Zion' is a recommended read.
    http://www.controversyofzion.info/Controversybook/index.htm


    Rev9
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  11. #10

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    Something else from YT I'd like some (hopefully cited) arguments against:

    There is no such thing as a Palestinian Arab nation . . . Palestine is a name the Romans gave to Eretz Yisrael with the express purpose of infuriating the Jews . . . . Why should we use the spiteful name meant to humiliate us? " "The British chose to call the land they mandated Palestine, and the Arabs picked it up as their nation's supposed ancient name, though they couldn't even pronounce it correctly and turned it into Falastin a fictional entity." ---- Golda Meir quoted by Sarah Honig, Jerusalem Post, 25 November 1995

    Palestine has never existed . . . as an autonomous entity. There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc.

    Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of one percent of the landmass. But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today . . . No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough. -- from "Myths of the Middle East",Joseph Farah, Arab-American editor and journalist, WorldNetDaily, 11 October 2000

    From the end of the Jewish state in antiquity to the beginning of British rule, the area now designated by the name Palestine was not a country and had no frontiers, only administrative boundaries . . . . - Professor Bernard Lewis, Commentary Magazine, January 1975

    Talk and writing about Israel and the Middle East feature the nouns "Palestine" and Palestinian", and the phrases "Palestinian territory" and even "Israeli-occupied Palestinian territory". All too often, these terms are used with regard to their historical or geographical meaning, so that the usage creates illusions rather than clarifies reality.

    ************************************************

    Islam is the greatest killer of all time, worse than Christianity, fascism or communism. The history of political Islam is the destruction of Christianity in the Middle East, Egypt, Turkey and North Africa. Half of Christianity was lost. Soon it was the fate of the Persian Zoroastrian and the Hindu to be the victims of jihad. Before Islam, North Africa was the southern part of Europe (part of the Roman Empire). Around 60 million Christians were slaughtered during the jihadist conquest. Half of the glorious Hindu civilization was annihilated and 80 million Hindus killed. The Jews similarly annihilated.
    Also:



    Additionally:
    Most Americans believe Palestine is just randomly firing missiles into Israel, spontaneously. In the event where they did, what preceded that?
    Last edited by Lishy; 02-09-2012 at 04:56 PM.

  12. #11

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    Try doing some research here:

    http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/

    The son of holocaust survivors and the biggest friend to the palestinians in the US.
    Agriculture is our wisest pursuit, because it will in the end contribute most to real wealth, good morals, and happiness.
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  13. #12

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    Thanks. Any other advice? Maybe an unbias comprehensive list of facts?

    It's not that I'm against the idea of a zionist state. I'm for that. But to bare a Jewish state at the expense of other people, and blood, makes all efforts of true zionism pointless.

    We mustn't forget that although the situation with Arabs and Palestinians are quite dire, normal Israelis are people too, who just want to have a place they can call home! I feel bad for those people because the state of Israel involves itself with too many conflicts and unfair bargains throughout the world, which ends up making hatred towards Israel, and endangering my people.

    Israel is VERY small, and I acknowledge that. But as Ron Paul has been trying to say, military only creates more military! Normal people like to think of this as defending Israel against crazy extremist neighbors like Syria and Saudi Arabia (Iran is more sane than those two!), but we end up just fueling their motives and arguments to the point where they become even bigger threats to the safety of my people!

    Course, not than either of those two states care about Palestine either. They only do it just for show, and false precedence, and because of Palestine, they are allowed to condemn Israel! The sooner we resolve Palestine and come to reality about the situation, the sooner we can end the conflict, and eliminate their excuses to attack Israel!

    That said, with such inconsideration to the safety of my Jewish brothers, I'll bet all the foreign aid they make us send over there doesn't even go to the people. It probably goes into their military industrial complex, which lobbyists use to profit off of, like corrupt politicians do here. I don't know the validity of my statement, because it is just a hunch. Either way, it's also not good for Israel's sovereignty either to be dependent on others, and especially towards a country as hated as America today (As it fuels motives against Israel.)

    Throughout the centuries, Jews have always been oppressed and bullied by corrupt dictators and neighbors. But today we are becoming the very thing we once despised. Karma rewarded us with the chance to establish our home in Israel, but we took that chance,and threw it out the window by staining it with blood!

    It's not a question of "if" Karma will strike back, "when" Israel will suffer at the hands of Karma, and I worry greatly for its people who just live life as civilians.

    I also don't believe it's right that the average Israeli must suffer at the fault of their corrupt state who doesn't care about its citizens. Never forget the 50,000 Israelis who protested during July and August of 2011.

    I honestly really do wish I had the time to do in-depth research onto these matters, but that's how I feel. If someone could correct me and provide any useful facts, please do! I would appreciate it!
    Last edited by Lishy; 02-11-2012 at 12:10 AM.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lishy View Post
    And to clarify, the Palestinians are trapped, aren't they? They cannot join Israel because of a ban on their checkpoints of some sort, and they can't simply gain a citizenship to another country?
    Thanks!
    Palestinians are not only trapped, the Israelis have built up a concentration-camp like situation in the shithole that is the Gaza strip. People not having access to proper medicine, daily raids, unreported killings, Israelis bombing campaigns. Palestinians are not allowed to move in or out, they are not allowed to trade, no exports allowed, must pay taxes to Israel, get nothing in return. Israelis not respecting International law and dont want to stay inside there own borders.

  15. #14
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    The British mandate:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British..._for_Palestine

    The Palastinians were promised the land by the British if they rose up and fought the Turks of The Ottoman Empire, which they did.


    The Balfour Declaration:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour...ration_of_1926

    The British De Facto heads of states acting on behalf of The Crown also declared the land a Jewish homeland.



    Interesting that the British either didnt realize (or cared) that there might be a conflict of interest with these ideas. Also, interestingly, Rothschild was involved with The Balfour Declaration.
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  16. #15

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    The Human Rights Council has passed more resolutions condemning Israel than it has all other states combined.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...cerning_Israel

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution9 View Post
    Ashkenazi Jews killed tens of millions of Orthodox Christians in Russia during the revolution and the communist regimes.


    Rev9
    There is some truth in your other statements.

    However, you`re making the big mistake of putting and judging people as groups which is not libertarian at all.

    Yes, people like Marx were Jews but most of the ones who used their ideas were Jew haters like Stalin. Stalin killed a lots of Jews in several pogroms. If you know history you`d know that. What you`re doing is putting collective blame on some people for faults of some. While, the marxist revolution that swiped Europe, did have a have a high kill count, Jews were hardly responsible. Stalin was a great killer of Jews, some claim bigger than Hitler.
    Jews like Trotsky were ejected and killed in the early phase of communist expansion. Jews suffered more because of communism, than really gained. Also, the soviet communists sided with Islamic states and arab states, opposing Israel.

    It`s again this Christian versus Jewish thing. I know you also believe some theory, which is in my opinion a bit naive, that today`s Russia run by ex-KGB is some big icon of Christianity fighting against Zionist NWO or something like that.
    Christian church used Jews as scapegoats for lot of history`s events. Also, Putin is just playing into Christian Orthodox feelings to gain political capital. The guy was KGB officer indoctrinated in atheist materialism.

    The most famous book that Hitler used as propaganda material against Jews, which is a fake material created by the White Russian army, the Protocols of elders of zion, was basically the book that spawned all this anti-semitism, or anti-zionism as you call it. It`s however a book based purely on fiction and has its basis on rehashed material/plagiarism of well known literature.

    Also, the argument that Jews are useless as scientists is also extremely racist argument, same thing you hear on Stormfront forums. What racists claim is that the mind of the non-Aryans is less evolved and not able to achieve scientific breakthroughs, especially in the field of mathematics.
    Israel is today highly advanced nation, a center of top research in many fields of hard science.

    Also, let`s not forget all creators of Austrian economics were Jews.

    That being said, I believe you hold extreme bias in your assessment although you try to give it all a positive spin at the end.

    I was raised in a catholic family that held very similar views to yours, so I know very well where you`re coming from. There are, however, big interests groups willing to manipulate and brainwash people painting opponents of their ideas as evil.
    While I don`t like the lobby of AIPAC, the laws to incarcerate people for expressing their views, how holocaust was exploited and transformed into an industry, the fact that certain Jewish groups have a monopoly on banking and certain networks, protecting Keynesian ponzi scheme economics, I do believe painting this evil vs good battle kinda` thing is extremely dangerous. It`s exactly the same propaganda Hitler used in Mein Kampf talking about the danger of zionism referencing The Protocols of Elders of Zion book I`ve mentioned earlier.
    Last edited by JuicyG; 02-11-2012 at 07:34 AM.
    Let`s get Ron Paul into top 10 to generate headlines. We need more people.

    "What does not kill me, makes me stronger."
    - Friedrich Nietzsche, philosopher (1844-1900), Twilight of the Idols

    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
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  18. #17

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    Islam is the greatest killer of all time, worse than Christianity, fascism or communism. The history of political Islam is the destruction of Christianity in the Middle East, Egypt, Turkey and North Africa. Half of Christianity was lost. Soon it was the fate of the Persian Zoroastrian and the Hindu to be the victims of jihad. Before Islam, North Africa was the southern part of Europe (part of the Roman Empire). Around 60 million Christians were slaughtered during the jihadist conquest. Half of the glorious Hindu civilization was annihilated and 80 million Hindus killed. The Jews similarly annihilated.
    These are all very true facts. Why do you feel the need to "debunk" them? Ron Paul is not-pro Islam. Ideologically he`s 180degrees opposed to what Islam stands for, as Islam is the religion that limits individual freedoms the most.

    I don`t get this Islam love fest some Paul supporters are engaged with.

    To make things a bit clearer; Ron Paul was among the very few in congress who supported Israel in bombing the Iraqi nuclear reactors and he was highly critized for that stance as being irresponsible.
    Ron Paul, I believe, is the only politician that would let Israel act as sovereign nation and defend itself. He said so repeatedly.


    Watch starting min 1:29
    Last edited by JuicyG; 02-11-2012 at 07:24 AM.
    Let`s get Ron Paul into top 10 to generate headlines. We need more people.

    "What does not kill me, makes me stronger."
    - Friedrich Nietzsche, philosopher (1844-1900), Twilight of the Idols

    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
    - Arthur Schopenhauer, philosopher (1788 - 1860)

    https://twitter.com/#!/JuicyGrabs

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuicyG View Post
    There is some truth in your other statements.

    However, you`re making the big mistake of putting and judging people as groups which is not libertarian at all.
    I ain't a frikkin' libertarian. In the post I made I had a historian hat on with no qualms about naming the players. I don't wear handles well as I wake up to new info daily that comprehensively destroys any label I may try to apply or live under. I stand by everything I said an in the manner I said. I do not play PC games as that feeds into the adversary's gambits.

    Rev9
    Drain the swamp - BIG DOG
    http://mindreleaselabs.com/
    Seeking work on Apps, Games, Art based projects

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuicyG View Post
    These are all very true facts. Why do you feel the need to "debunk" them? Ron Paul is not-pro Islam. Ideologically he`s 180degrees opposed to what Islam stands for, as Islam is the religion that limits individual freedoms the most.

    I don`t get this Islam love fest some Paul supporters are engaged with.

    To make things a bit clearer; Ron Paul was among the very few in congress who supported Israel in bombing the Iraqi nuclear reactors and he was highly critized for that stance as being irresponsible.
    Ron Paul, I believe, is the only politician that would let Israel act as sovereign nation and defend itself. He said so repeatedly.


    Watch starting min 1:29
    I contract to an Egyptian Muslim. Yer full of shit. There is none of the venom you describe in his comportment. He has no animosity to Israel and neither does his Construction Engineer who is Iranian. His secretary is Jewish. I have put on Turkish festivals as the sound and lighting guy and never did a gig for a more respectful bunch of family oriented and dedicated folks. Every event had as it's focus the children, and not one child left without "winning" a prize for some event they participated in. They paid and fed me well and treated me like a king.

    Fisharmor should pop in and set you straight as well.

    Rev9
    Drain the swamp - BIG DOG
    http://mindreleaselabs.com/
    Seeking work on Apps, Games, Art based projects

  21. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution9 View Post
    I contract to an Egyptian Muslim. Yer full of shit. There is none of the venom you describe in his comportment. He has no animosity to Israel and neither does his Construction Engineer who is Iranian. His secretary is Jewish. I have put on Turkish festivals as the sound and lighting guy and never did a gig for a more respectful bunch of family oriented and dedicated folks. Every event had as it's focus the children, and not one child left without "winning" a prize for some event they participated in. They paid and fed me well and treated me like a king.

    Fisharmor should pop in and set you straight as well.

    Rev9
    You might want to temper that language a bit, especially because I agree with you on this one.

    I happen to have a good egyptian friend living in Cairo who is a moderate muslims who was arrested and abused a number of times by the Junta.
    He`s very nice and kind and open to conversation. I`ve challenged him a number of times to debates regarding Islam and he`s not the type to be upset about different views. However, he`s a small minority in Egypt, not supporting the Muslim Brotherhood. The liberals(not US kinda` liberals) he supported got minuscule % in the elections there and he was very disappointed by that.

    However, as moderate as he is, he believes Israel is an abusive state, that world is run by a Jewish conspiracy, that end of world will come when Muslim messiah returns and all world will be taken over by Islam.
    Last edited by JuicyG; 02-11-2012 at 07:54 AM.
    Let`s get Ron Paul into top 10 to generate headlines. We need more people.

    "What does not kill me, makes me stronger."
    - Friedrich Nietzsche, philosopher (1844-1900), Twilight of the Idols

    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
    - Arthur Schopenhauer, philosopher (1788 - 1860)

    https://twitter.com/#!/JuicyGrabs

  22. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution9 View Post
    never did a gig for a more respectful bunch of family oriented and dedicated folks.
    Rev9

    +rep.
    Your experience is no match for others' willful ignorance.



    Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world.
    Schopenhauer

  23. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolution9 View Post
    I contract to an Egyptian Muslim. Yer full of shit. There is none of the venom you describe in his comportment. He has no animosity to Israel and neither does his Construction Engineer who is Iranian. His secretary is Jewish.

    Rev9
    As I was saying earlier, there are some moderates there in Egypt, they form a small minority. And even these kind and friendly moderates believe some extreme stuff as I`ve said earlier. My Egyptian friend is an educated intellectual and investor. The person you do business with seems to be in same category and he`s probably a moderate, supporting the egyptian liberals and not the Muslim Brotherhood which took control of the parliament in a landslide election.

    The majority of Egyptians however are pretty much folks doing stuff like this:

    http://www.compassdirect.org/english...ry/egypt/69546
    http://cifwatch.com/2011/05/08/musli...urch-in-egypt/


    Kill all the Christians,’ local imam tells villagers.
    CAIRO, March 8 (CDN) — A Muslim mob in a village south of Cairo last weekend attacked a church building and burned it down, almost killing the parish priest after an imam issued a call to “Kill all the Christians,” according to local sources.


    The attack started on Friday evening (March 4) in the village of Sool, located in the city of Helwan 35 kilometers (22 miles) from Cairo, and lasted through most of Saturday. A local imam, Sheik Ahmed Abu Al-Dahab, issued the call during Friday afternoon prayers, telling area Muslims to kill the Christians because they had “no right” to live in the village. The attack started several hours later.


    The Rev. Hoshea Abd Al-Missieh, a parish priest who narrowly escaped death in the fire, said the clamor of the church being torn apart sounded like “hatred.”


    “I was in the attack, but I can’t describe it,” he said. “The sound of the church being destroyed that I heard – I can’t describe it, how horrible it was.”


    According to villagers, the mob broke into the Church of the Two Martyrs St. George and St. Mina, and as they chanted “Allahu Akbar [God is greater],” looted it, demolished the walls with sledgehammers and set a fire that burned itself out the next morning. Looters removed anything valuable, including several containers holding the remains of venerated Copts – most of whom were killed in other waves of persecution – then stomped and kicked the containers like soccer balls, witnesses said.
    Another Church has been attacked and burned down in Egypt by a mob of Muslim extremists on the basis of “a rumour” that the Church was holding captive a Christian woman who, they claim, wanted to convert to Islam.

    My guess is that it will pass largely unremarked as Liberal and Left opinion-makers cast an Nelsonian eye in its direction. There is growing evidence that the secular democratic revolution in Egypt will be victim to a Trojan Horse filled with theocrats.

    Let’s face it, little fuss was made or concern shown when it happened last time. On News Year’s Day, a bomb killed 22 Coptic Christians attending Midnight Mass. Inevitably – so removed from reality is the political milieu this is happening in – the finger was pointed at Israel by some prominent Egyptian political leaders.
    Last edited by JuicyG; 02-11-2012 at 08:22 AM.
    Let`s get Ron Paul into top 10 to generate headlines. We need more people.

    "What does not kill me, makes me stronger."
    - Friedrich Nietzsche, philosopher (1844-1900), Twilight of the Idols

    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
    - Arthur Schopenhauer, philosopher (1788 - 1860)

    https://twitter.com/#!/JuicyGrabs

  24. #23

    Default Response to "Common anti-palestinian arguments"

    Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I recently found this thread while doing some research on Palestine. (Am also PM'ing the OP since it's been so long). I'm fairly neutral on the Israel-Palestine issue but here are my thoughts:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lishy View Post
    Jews have never killed innocents , at least not like the Muslims and Europeans have

    but based on all the propaganda calling Jews heartless and saying they have killed innocents, it makes me wish they do
    Quote Originally Posted by Lishy View Post
    jews killed millions?!? where and when exactly?! enlighten me please.
    Well, in the 6th century AD there was a Jewish king of Yemen (Dhu Nuwas) who massacred thousands of Christians (upper estimates put it around 20,000 - 22,000, which was a lot of people in the 6th century). This shocked the Byzantines and Ethiopians and led to an Ethiopian military response.

    Also, the Jews in the Bible certainly did questionable things (by modern standards). Admittedly, life was very vicious in ancient times and wars were extremely brutal back then. As an example, take a look at Simeon and Levi's actions in response to the rape of Dinah in the book of Genesis. Yes, raping Dinah was bad and the perpetrator should have been punished. But viciously killing *all* of the males in the city of Shechem, and then plundering the city and taking the women and children - all for the actions of one man? Talk about collective punishment!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lishy View Post
    the state of palestine never existed, the palestinians never have been sovereign and the land you call west-bank was taken from Jordan, not from the state of palestine... but that is not the point here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lishy View Post
    Palestine has never existed . . . as an autonomous entity. There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lishy View Post
    If anyone should take responsibility for Israel, it is the British. Because they were the ones who created Israel, and it should be their responsibility to solve this mess! Why is it the rest of the world's responsibility to pay for their military state and to die for their land!? We have our own countries to live for!
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    The British mandate:

    The Palastinians were promised the land by the British if they rose up and fought the Turks of The Ottoman Empire, which they did.

    The Balfour Declaration:

    The British De Facto heads of states acting on behalf of The Crown also declared the land a Jewish homeland.
    Things are complicated because the concept of sovereign states is a relatively modern idea (and some might argue that it is already obsolete).

    The Brits (and other powers) certainly had their own designs for the region, as can be seen from the failed Treaty of Sevres and the preceding secret Tripartite Agreement. But, as if often the case, things didn't go quite the way they had planned. There had also been the intention of creating Kurdistan for the Kurds but that never materialized. So I'm not sure how valid you can rely on British promises from 1915.

    Also a lot of the problems in the region were simply the result of the disintegration of the Ottoman Empire (not really the British's "fault"). You have similar problems whenever other empires dissolve (Austrian-Hungarian, Holy Roman Empire, Rome). The Balkans were also a mess after World War I and II.

    The Brits were in this position because it was the Ottomans who had previously conquered the Palestine region. And before then it was in the hands of the Mongols, Arabs, Byzantines (Eastern Rome), and Persians. Before then (Western) Rome. Go back farther and you'll have Phoenicians and Canaanites. It's gonna be a mess no matter what way you look at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lishy View Post
    Islam is the greatest killer of all time, worse than Christianity, fascism or communism. The history of political Islam is the destruction of Christianity in the Middle East, Egypt, Turkey and North Africa. Half of Christianity was lost. Soon it was the fate of the Persian Zoroastrian and the Hindu to be the victims of jihad. Before Islam, North Africa was the southern part of Europe (part of the Roman Empire). Around 60 million Christians were slaughtered during the jihadist conquest. Half of the glorious Hindu civilization was annihilated and 80 million Hindus killed. The Jews similarly annihilated.
    Yes, Islam did do many terrible things during this time against Christians, Zoroastrians, Hindus, and Jews.

    However, a lot of the fault also lies with the Christians who brought much of the trouble on themselves. Western Europe repeatedly failed to help the Byzantine Empire. Oftentimes, Crusaders who took over Muslim-controlled cities would massacre the inhabitants, thinking they were Muslim (when they were actually Byzantine Christians). The Fourth Crusade had the audacity to sack Constantinople, one of the greatest cities of the time. The Byzantine Empire never really recovered after that. Western Europe also failed to help Constantinople when it was finally besieged by the Ottomans (partly due to Venetian greed and rivalry).

    Even with the Christians in the Middle East, many of them initially welcomed the Muslim conquerors, seeing them as better than the "heretical" Eastern Orthodox Byzantines (those in the region were largely Oriental Orthodox). Only too late did they realize that things were worse under these new rulers.

    A lot of the destruction of Christianity was done to itself. Catholicism destroyed Constantinople (during the aforementioned Fourth Crusade). You had the European wars of religion following the Protestant Reformation (with the notable Thirty Years War). Christianity also destroyed much of its own history through iconoclasm (there were two major Byzantine iconoclasms and also the Reformation iconoclasm).

    You can also think of some interesting parallels between Sunni/Shiite wars, conflicts with Sufism, and several cases of iconoclasm - both within Islam (such as the recent destruction of Sufi shrines in Timbuktu) and to other religions (the Taliban's destruction of the giant Buddhas).

    And note that while Islam was quite brutal to Zoroastrianism by destroying many of its sacred sites and persecuting its worshipers, also note that Christianity wasn't that nice to Zoroastrianism either. Byzantine emperor Heraclius destroyed the great fire temple of Taxte Soleymān in the 7th century (though that was partly provoked by Persia's capture of Jerusalem and the massacre and enslavement of many of its inhabitants).



    ---------------------


    Getting back to the Israel-Palestine issue.

    The motivations of many Middle Eastern countries is suspect since many (like Jordan and Egypt) originally wanted to annex Palestine itself (rather than allow it to be an independent state). It's also interesting that while Turkey, Iran, Iraq, and Syria are so quick to focus on the plight of the Palestinians, they conveniently neglect the situation of the Kurds and wouldn't be quite so eager to support the creation of Kurdistan. Of course this sort of hypocrisy exists in most nations (including Western, industrialized ones). I *really* wished that, in response to the recent U.N. referendum on recognizing Palestine, either the U.S. or Israel had introduced a similar bill to recognize Kurdistan (probably would have to be Israel, since the U.S. wouldn't want to risk angering Turkey).

    While romantics might like to view the world through rose-colored lens consisting of ideal rules of law, I'm more resigned that the world works through political realism, realpolitik, and ultimately the right of conquest (or who has the power to hold the land).

    So the fate of Israel *and* Palestine rests on who has the power to control it (and right now it just happens to be Israel).

    What happens next depends on who has the power and if anyone can effectively challenge it. (Just like China with Tibet and Taiwan, Russia and Georgia with South Ossetia, U.K. and Argentina with the Falkland Islands, and Serbia and Kosovo in the Balkans).

  25. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by echiang777 View Post
    Well, in the 6th century AD there was a Jewish king of Yemen (Dhu Nuwas) who massacred thousands of Christians (upper estimates put it around 20,000 - 22,000, which was a lot of people in the 6th century). This shocked the Byzantines and Ethiopians and led to an Ethiopian military response.

    Also, the Jews in the Bible certainly did questionable things (by modern standards). Admittedly, life was very vicious in ancient times and wars were extremely brutal back then. As an example, take a look at Simeon and Levi's actions in response to the rape of Dinah in the book of Genesis. Yes, raping Dinah was bad and the perpetrator should have been punished. But viciously killing *all* of the males in the city of Shechem, and then plundering the city and taking the women and children - all for the actions of one man? Talk about collective punishment!
    Oh, and additional atrocities (supposedly) committed by Jews include:

    - The genocide of Canaanites by Moses and the Israelis in the Old Testament.

    - Christians (and some Muslims) who believe in the New Testament might also point out that the Jewish King Herod slaughtered all of the male infants in Bethlelem (the Massacre of the Innocents).


    Quote Originally Posted by echiang777 View Post
    Yes, Islam did do many terrible things during this time against Christians, Zoroastrians, Hindus, and Jews.

    However, a lot of the fault also lies with the Christians who brought much of the trouble on themselves. Western Europe repeatedly failed to help the Byzantine Empire. Oftentimes, Crusaders who took over Muslim-controlled cities would massacre the inhabitants, thinking they were Muslim (when they were actually Byzantine Christians). The Fourth Crusade had the audacity to sack Constantinople, one of the greatest cities of the time. The Byzantine Empire never really recovered after that. Western Europe also failed to help Constantinople when it was finally besieged by the Ottomans (partly due to Venetian greed and rivalry).

    Even with the Christians in the Middle East, many of them initially welcomed the Muslim conquerors, seeing them as better than the "heretical" Eastern Orthodox Byzantines (those in the region were largely Oriental Orthodox). Only too late did they realize that things were worse under these new rulers.

    A lot of the destruction of Christianity was done to itself. Catholicism destroyed Constantinople (during the aforementioned Fourth Crusade). You had the European wars of religion following the Protestant Reformation (with the notable Thirty Years War). Christianity also destroyed much of its own history through iconoclasm (there were two major Byzantine iconoclasms and also the Reformation iconoclasm).

    You can also think of some interesting parallels between Sunni/Shiite wars, conflicts with Sufism, and several cases of iconoclasm - both within Islam (such as the recent destruction of Sufi shrines in Timbuktu) and to other religions (the Taliban's destruction of the giant Buddhas).

    And note that while Islam was quite brutal to Zoroastrianism by destroying many of its sacred sites and persecuting its worshipers, also note that Christianity wasn't that nice to Zoroastrianism either. Byzantine emperor Heraclius destroyed the great fire temple of Taxte Soleymān in the 7th century (though that was partly provoked by Persia's capture of Jerusalem and the massacre and enslavement of many of its inhabitants).
    And note that one of the main reasons that the Arabs were able to conquer so much territory in its early years, was because the Byzantine Empire (Christians) and Sassanid Persians (Zoroastrians) had exhausted themselves with ruinous wars against each other, so they were each too weak to effectively repel the Arab invaders.

  26. #25
    Account Restricted. Admin to review account standing
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    "jews killed millions?!? where and when exactly?! enlighten me please."

    In the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia early last century:


  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    The Palestinians won't be allowed to become Israelis as the birthrate differential would rapidly make today's Israelis and their descendants a minority in their own country.
    White people will become a minority in their own country, if the demographers are to be believed. Should we fight against it? What would the media call a person who fights to preserve white majority in America? (rhetorical question)

    It seems that the different moral standards are applied to Israel? Aren't we supposed to share values with Israel?

    I say more "diversity" in Israel can only be a good thing.
    Last edited by JCDenton0451; 08-05-2013 at 08:13 AM.

  28. #27

    Default

    It seems pretty obvious to me that the Jewish State is the underlying cause of conflict in the Middle East. A One-state Solution, involving Israeli Jews, Palestinians and Palestinian refugees living in the single state, would eliminate the basis for conflict.

    Those who wonder what would become of the Jews, living as a minority in the Palestinian state, just need to look to South Africa for an example.

  29. #28

    Default

    You can condemn the violence of Palestinian extremists, but still put forth legimitae anti-Zionist arguments.

    It's exactly what we do when we defend against people like Ghouliani who twist Ron's words.
    I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States...When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank...You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, I will rout you out!

    Andrew Jackson, 1834

  30. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JCDenton0451 View Post
    It seems pretty obvious to me that the Jewish State is the underlying cause of conflict in the Middle East. A One-state Solution, involving Israeli Jews, Palestinians and Palestinian refugees living in the single state, would eliminate the basis for conflict.

    Those who wonder what would become of the Jews, living as a minority in the Palestinian state, just need to look to South Africa for an example.
    This. And to those who say that two nations within a single state can't work, I say look at our Indian tribes here.
    I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States...When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank...You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, I will rout you out!

    Andrew Jackson, 1834





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