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Thread: To vaccinate or not to vaccine, that is the question.

  1. #31
    I wish my mom didn't force me to vaccinate all these years. INCLUDING the Swine Flu vaccine. How dangerous was that $#@!? :/

    Now I've stopped taking the flu shot when given the opportunity, and I'm perfectly fine. However, WHY do they use mercury and liquid metals in vaccines anyways? I mean, for something as important as vaccinations, surely there's better preservatives? What IS the reason they give? (Also, give me the Canadian perspective if possible.)

    We need doctor Paul to educate us!!!
    Last edited by Lishy; 02-08-2012 at 05:47 PM.



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  3. #32
    Hi Swath,

    Good for you for having some unease about this. Many are waiting until child is over a year and then vaxing one per visit over a LONG period of time. Ask for specific lot# of vax and keep a record. This will show you mean business and will make doc accountable.

    If doc and nurses put you down, find one who won't. We've actually interviewed.

    Bless you,
    Louise
    Last edited by Eagles' Wings; 06-28-2012 at 10:02 PM.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Buchanan View Post
    General anesthetics given to the mother during childbirth, and/or during infant circumcision are the most likely contributing factors to autism.
    Source? And if you really want the hair to stand up on the back of your neck, take a look at the disparagy in the number of children with Autism born to military service personel. One thing our goverment is good at is making sure those in the service and their family get all their vaccinations. Anesthetics and circumcision can't explain the increase in those numbers.
    No One But Paul

    The Statistics of Impossibility is the new radar you can't outrun.

  6. #34
    I feel your pain....Mine is scheduled for his next appointment on March 1st, he will be 8 months old and we haven't done any vaccines. I vaccinated all of ours up until number 6 had a reaction. She had some developmental regression and I researched the vaccine correlation possibility. This made me paranoid enough to stop vaccinating for the time being, not to mention the whole issue of fetal cell versions that I was completely unaware of and am against. Lucky us, dh then lost his job and there went the health insurance so when we were in between insurance coverage I was not under pressure to move forward. Now it is on the forefront as we have a new little one and they want you to sign those stupid forms every time you go claiming you are knowingly putting everyone at risk by refusing the shots. I don't even want to go to get him a check up with the way they act about the matter. I know I don't want to be the one who caused them harm and regret that I might have caused number 6's issues by not being more informed. There are no easy answers, but know you are not alone in your anxiety...
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle

  7. #35
    The study that linked autism and vaccines has been thoroughly debunked. The data was fudged, the researcher lied, the whole episode was a farce. Vaccines may be linked to autism, who knows, but there is no scientific data to back that up. Then the media spreading it like they did was immoral.

    SWATH the decision is up to you and I'm glad you're questioning what gets put into your kids. I would point you towards the history of many of those diseases and see why vaccines have saved a hell of a lot more lives than they've screwed up and how they are still saving millions of lives as these diseases have NOT yet been eradicated and pop in the US from time to time. Yes you take a small risk in vaccinating your kids and you have to determine for yourself if the risk of the side effects are worth it versus the possibility of death or disfigurement from contracting the disease. At least you're doing research instead of blinding following your doctor or state like many parents do.
    “We, as a group, now have a greater moral responsibility to act than those who live in ignorance. Once you become knowledgeable, you have an obligation to do something about it.” - Ron Paul

  8. #36
    My advise is don't do it.

    None of my kids are getting any vaccines.
    Last edited by RickyJ; 02-08-2012 at 10:45 PM.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by moostraks View Post
    I feel your pain....Mine is scheduled for his next appointment on March 1st, he will be 8 months old and we haven't done any vaccines. I vaccinated all of ours up until number 6 had a reaction. She had some developmental regression and I researched the vaccine correlation possibility. This made me paranoid enough to stop vaccinating for the time being, not to mention the whole issue of fetal cell versions that I was completely unaware of and am against. Lucky us, dh then lost his job and there went the health insurance so when we were in between insurance coverage I was not under pressure to move forward. Now it is on the forefront as we have a new little one and they want you to sign those stupid forms every time you go claiming you are knowingly putting everyone at risk by refusing the shots. I don't even want to go to get him a check up with the way they act about the matter. I know I don't want to be the one who caused them harm and regret that I might have caused number 6's issues by not being more informed. There are no easy answers, but know you are not alone in your anxiety...
    I always tried to find support for lifestyle choices that are not considered mainstream. There are many sites about natural mothering. Perhaps one might doubt the necessity of well baby checks. Find a doctor, or complimentary health professional who gives you encouragment, not shame. Blessings to you, Louise

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by tennman View Post
    I'm a parent who NEVER vaccinates my kids because I love them too much to allow that crap to be put in them. Heck, the thing that you thin you're getting vaccinated for includes hundreds of biproducts from pharmasutical companies who convinced some politician to use taxpayer money to but their junk and put it in too. Many other countrieshave stopped vaccinating and their children are less sick because of it. The effectiveness of vaccines has been grossly overstated if not outright lied about to put taxpayer money in the hands of pharmasutical corporations.
    Your kids will thank you when they grow up healthy and smart while other kids are sick and dumb.

  11. #39
    You seem worried about mercury. Do you feel that aluminum is a safe alternative?

    Also, try not to make it an all or nothing decision. Study each vaccine and make your decision. You may find that you make each decision for the same reason ultimately but they are still unique choices.

    Take your time. You can't undo this decision so you should be absolutely sure.

    eta: Also look at how to care for your child for each disease if you choose to delay or not vax. You will want to be somewhat familiar with this if they were to contract something.
    Last edited by freeforall; 02-08-2012 at 10:52 PM.
    "Every generation deserves to live free." ~Ron Paul
    "It's hard to be free, but when it works it sure is worth it." ~Janis Joplin

  12. #40
    I agree with others. Do your own research. This is tricky stuff and even though many of the things we vaccinate against are rare and you can still contract them if vaccinated you have to be ok with receiving additional scrutiny if your kids do contract something that a vaccine exists for. Also, living a healthy lifestyle, eating good food and having some openness to natural medicine help a lot if you decide not to vaccinate because you want your child to have a robust immune system.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by freeforall View Post
    You seem worried about mercury. Do you feel that aluminum is a safe alternative?

    Also, try not to make it an all or nothing decision. Study each vaccine and make your decision. You may find that you make each decision for the same reason ultimately but they are still unique choices.

    Take your time. You can't undo this decision so you should be absolutely sure.

    eta: Also look at how to care for your child for each disease if you choose to delay or not vax. You will want to be somewhat familiar with this if they were to contract something.
    Mercury is one of the most toxic substances to human beings! Aluminium is also not good to be in a human. There will be no damn poison going into my kids.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Lishy View Post
    I wish my mom didn't force me to vaccinate all these years. INCLUDING the Swine Flu vaccine. How dangerous was that $#@!? :/

    Now I've stopped taking the flu shot when given the opportunity, and I'm perfectly fine. However, WHY do they use mercury and liquid metals in vaccines anyways? I mean, for something as important as vaccinations, surely there's better preservatives? What IS the reason they give? (Also, give me the Canadian perspective if possible.)

    We need doctor Paul to educate us!!!
    No one knows why they use it. Why did they once put HIV in vaccines?

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark37snj View Post
    Autism is NOT genetic. The medical research company I worked for determined that. Vaccines are a double edged sword. Yes they save lives but they can be dangerous. Vaccines have been linked to Autism, Multiple Sclerosis, and other diseases. They SWEAR that mercury and thermisol does not cause autism or other diseases, so why did they begin removing them? Trust is a factor and the pharmaceutical industry has destroyed that trust. The medical community quickly points to that British doctor who was discreteded by the medical establishment/goverment. Yet I have not heard of any thorough unbiased study conducted to follow up on this, my that is suspecious in itself. Until I see that study I call BS as well. Protect your children.
    That was Dr. Wakefield. However, the British have retracted that (The Lancet) and now Dr. Wakefield is suing them for Libel.

    Source: http://www.ageofautism.com/dr-andrew-wakefield/



    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  17. #44
    Thanks donnay, I havn't seen these vids till now. I have a very relevant post coming in the near future about this issue and after I do anyone would be able to see why I do buy any of the pharmaceutical industries BS on vaccines and neither should they.
    Last edited by Mark37snj; 02-09-2012 at 12:31 AM.
    No One But Paul

    The Statistics of Impossibility is the new radar you can't outrun.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    We went with a selective, delayed schedule. It means more office visits but our doctor does the shot-only visits for free.
    I agree. Don't mix if at all possible.
    Last edited by american.swan; 02-09-2012 at 12:31 AM.
    " Anyone can become angry. That is easy. But to be angry with the right person, to the right degree, at the right time, for the right purpose and in the right way - that is not easy." --Aristotle

  19. #46
    Oh and look into your state laws. In some states (like PA where I live) once you take some vaccines you can't refuse any others that are on the mandatory schedule and still have your kids attend school...the religious exemption here is all or nothing.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Mckarnin View Post
    Oh and look into your state laws. In some states (like PA where I live) once you take some vaccines you can't refuse any others that are on the mandatory schedule and still have your kids attend school...the religious exemption here is all or nothing.
    Don't tell them. Find a doctor, out of state if necessary, and get the vaccinations you want.
    No One But Paul

    The Statistics of Impossibility is the new radar you can't outrun.

  21. #48
    I totally understand if you are against vaccinating. NH has the highest rate of vaccinating so if you are against it but still don't want your children to get sick, move to New Hampshire!
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark37snj View Post
    Thanks donnay, I havn't seen these vids till now. I have a very relevant post coming in the near future about this issue and after I do anyone would be able to see why I do buy any of the pharmaceutical industries BS on vaccines and neither should they.
    You're welcome. I look forward to your post!
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith and stuff View Post
    I totally understand if you are against vaccinating. NH has the highest rate of vaccinating so if you are against it but still don't want your children to get sick, move to New Hampshire!
    They have the highest rate of vaccinating? I think you misspoke?
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    They have the highest rate of vaccinating? I think you misspoke?
    I don't get it. What do you think I said wrong? Clearly, children are less likely to get sick in states with higher rates of vaccinating. NH has the highest rate so children are less likely to get sick in NH. If you want to not vaccinate your children and you don't want them to get sick, move to NH.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith and stuff View Post
    I don't get it. What do you think I said wrong? Clearly, children are less likely to get sick in states with higher rates of vaccinating. NH has the highest rate so children are less likely to get sick in NH. If you want to not vaccinate your children and you don't want them to get sick, move to NH.
    NH is number 5 on the list of states with the highest increase in Autism. http://www.statemaster.com/graph/hea...e-growth-cases
    No One But Paul

    The Statistics of Impossibility is the new radar you can't outrun.

  27. #53

  28. #54
    Thanks gerryb, I can relate to those poor kids more than you know.
    Last edited by Mark37snj; 02-09-2012 at 01:56 AM.
    No One But Paul

    The Statistics of Impossibility is the new radar you can't outrun.

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark37snj View Post
    NH is number 5 on the list of states with the highest increase in Autism. http://www.statemaster.com/graph/hea...e-growth-cases
    And that is useful or meaningful how? Children in NH don't have diseases. If you don't want your children to get sick, move to NH were we have the highest rate of vaccination. Unless of course, you want your children to get sick. If that is the case, don't move to NH!
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith and stuff View Post
    And that is useful or meaningful how? Children in NH don't have diseases. If you don't want your children to get sick, move to NH were we have the highest rate of vaccination. Unless of course, you want your children to get sick. If that is the case, don't move to NH!
    The kids in your state do have a disease, fortunately for other kids Autism is not contagious. Small comfort to those who do have it though. Sucks to be them I guess. I see the point your making, its not something that I would feel proud of.

    EDIT: Im not promoting an all or nothing strategy. But there is more than enough evidence to warrent change in manufacturing and mandates of vaccines and precautionary steps that should be taken by parents and adults.
    Last edited by Mark37snj; 02-09-2012 at 01:28 AM.
    No One But Paul

    The Statistics of Impossibility is the new radar you can't outrun.



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  32. #57
    I will never vaccinate because I believe I was injured by a vaccine in my teenage years. I figure if it happened to me, then my child is more susceptible too. Each person has to make up their own mind though. If you decide not to, it's not an easy battle and you have to be mentally prepared to deal with all of the hurdles you come across.
    Go check out my vocal covers on Youtube. Thanks!
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  33. #58
    Thanks for the reply's everyone. Please give me more details of your experiences be they positive of negative with vaccinations. I remember when I was getting vaccines as a child that they hurt really bad, my whole arm would be sore and useless for a while and I would be lethargic, etc. As far as neurological effects, I don't know, when I was in elementary school I remember going to several special classes because I guess they were unsure if I was gifted or slow. I went to the class with all the "genius" kids and I went to the class with the kids who had trouble speaking, I think I also had a speech impediment or a failure to speak kind of thing going on. I recall going to a counselor a few times because I stopped speaking for awhile maybe a week or two. I think that had more to do with the emotional trauma of my parents fighting and threatening to leave than anything though, and the frog I found in the creek died because it wouldn't eat the flies I caught for it. Anyway I do recall having earaches a lot that were agonizing.

    I've always been sort of anti-medication, I don't take anything, even aspirin or Ibuprofen unless I have some really bad pain. I've always been skeptical of the western diet and currently eat paleo or as close as I can. I think this is mainly due to the fact that I was born 2 months premature and had some very serious medical complications immediately after birth which required a couple of very invasive surgeries, and they were almost certainly caused by artificial intervention and could have been prevented. My mother later would curse about the doctors and relay her extreme guilt for listening to them about the cause of the problems. I was born so premature because I had apparently kicked her hard enough to break her water and this sent her into labor at about 7 months. I was put in an incubator so I could breathe and that was all fine. The came came about because this was the late 70's and it was during a period where western medicine believed formula to be superior to breast milk, you know it is precisely created in a lab to be perfectly balance and this and that, so they told my mother they were going to feed me the formula instead of having her pump breast milk for me. Well I had a very negative reaction to the formula, I couldn't digest it, and it had caused a small bowel obstruction and led to necrotizing enterocolitis, where part of my small intestine was strangulated to death and had to be surgically removed. After the surgery my mother was furious that they had fed me formula but the doctors said that had nothing to do with it, so they fed me formula again, and the same thing happened again. So I had another surgery removing my entire small intestine examining the whole length of it, cutting away the necrotic portion, and replacing it again. I think at this point I was 5 days old on top of being born 2 months early and already with 2 major surgeries under my diaper. It wasn't until I was feed intravenously through a pic line in the top of my head that I stopped having the obstructions. I had a lot of complications from it in life, from anomalous pains to more bowel obstructions requiring hospitalization, to generally poor digestion. I don't know but I suspect my abdomen is a spider web of surgical adhesions. All this to only find out now that the medical communities attitude toward formula has changed and they now no longer immediately treat small bowel obstructions with surgery anymore. Now I take great comfort when I look at my sons belly and don't see a huge scar bisecting him in half.

    So yeah you could say I'm skeptical of western medicine. However I think it is still valuable as in cases of trauma and such but as a preventative practice forget it. Though I'm far more inclined towards natural medicine I know it's not perfect. The master cleanse landed me in the hospital for a week, although I'm certain that was due to my prior altered internal physiology from the surgeries, but my wife is still freaked out about anything that a doctor doesn't suggest. Never-the-less, she is also mildly skeptical and as a result opted to have a intensely painful natural birth, breast feed exclusively, and have generally minimal artificial intervention with the child. I refused to have him fed formula when he was first born at the doctors suggestion, and only now have we supplemented him with some only because his demands are outpacing his mothers ability to produce milk.

    I have a general life theory/world view that I kind of learned and observed and is one of the reasons I am a libertarian and support Ron Paul and that theory is, that when you artificially try to prevent something from happening you are more likely to inadvertently cause it to happen. All in all generally I am uncomfortable with the vaccinations and my wife is uncomfortable with no vaccinations.
    Last edited by SWATH; 02-09-2012 at 12:52 PM.
    Has Gun Will Revolt

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith and stuff View Post
    I don't get it. What do you think I said wrong? Clearly, children are less likely to get sick in states with higher rates of vaccinating. NH has the highest rate so children are less likely to get sick in NH. If you want to not vaccinate your children and you don't want them to get sick, move to NH.
    I realize you do not get it. Do some research on it. It's better to be informed! Education is key! I live in New Hampshire and I do not believe in vaccines!

    The 'Vaccines are safe' lie

    Jon Rappaport interviews an ex-vaccine worker “Dr Mark Randall”.

    CDC caught in blatant lies about pandemics and vaccines

    Vaccines & Vaccinations are a Big Lie


    Polio Vaccine Truth

    Vaccine Ingredients

    Vaccine Ingredients -Formaldehyde, Aspartame, Mercury, Etc




    Historical Facts Exposing The Dangers and

    Ineffectiveness of Vaccines

    Compiled by Ian Sinclair
    http://www.vaccinationdebate.com/about.html



    FAIR USE NOTICE:

    This may contain copyrighted (© ) material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such material is made available for educational purposes,

    to advance understanding of human rights, democracy, scientific, moral, ethical, and social justice issues, etc. It is believed that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in Title 17 U.S.C. section 107 of the US Copyright Law.
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    - In 1871-2, England, with 98% of the population aged between 2 and 50 vaccinated against smallpox, experienced its worst ever smallpox outbreak with 45,000 deaths. During the same period in Germany, with a vaccination rate of 96%, there were over 125,000 deaths from smallpox.
    (The Hadwen Documents)

    - In Germany, compulsory mass vaccination against diphtheria commenced in 1940 and by 1945 diphtheria cases were up from 40,000 to 250,000.
    (Don't Get Stuck, Hannah Allen)

    - In the USA in 1960, two virologists discovered that both polio vaccines were contaminated with the SV 40 virus which causes cancer in animals as well as changes in human cell tissue cultures. Millions of children had been injected with these vaccines. (Med Jnl of Australia 17/3/1973 p555)

    - In 1967, Ghana was declared measles free by the World Health Organisation after 96% of its population was vaccinated. In 1972, Ghana experienced one of its worst measles outbreaks with its highest ever mortality rate.
    (Dr H Albonico, MMR Vaccine Campaign in Switzerland, March 1990)

    - In the UK between 1970 and 1990, over 200,000 cases of whooping cough occurred in fully vaccinated children. (Community Disease Surveillance Centre, UK)

    - In the 1970's a tuberculosis vaccine trial in India involving 260,000 people revealed that more cases of TB occurred in the vaccinated than the unvaccinated.
    (The Lancet 12/1/80 p73)

    - In 1977, Dr Jonas Salk who developed the first polio vaccine, testified along with other scientists, that mass inoculation against polio was the cause of most polio cases throughout the USA since 1961.
    (Science 4/4/77 "Abstracts" )

    - In 1978, a survey of 30 States in the US revealed that more than half of the children who contracted measles had been adequately vaccinated.
    (The People's Doctor, Dr R Mendelsohn)

    - In 1979, Sweden abandoned the whooping cough vaccine due to its ineffectiveness. Out of 5,140 cases in 1978, it was found that 84% had been vaccinated three times!
    (BMJ 283:696-697, 1981)

    -The February 1981 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association found that 90% of obstetricians and 66% of pediatricians refused to take the rubella vaccine.

    - In the USA, the cost of a single DPT shot had risen from 11 cents in 1982 to $11.40 in 1987. The manufacturers of the vaccine were putting aside $8 per shot to cover legal costs and damages they were paying out to parents of brain damaged children and children who died after vaccination.
    (The Vine, Issue 7, January 1994, Nambour, Qld)

    - In Oman between 1988 and 1989, a polio outbreak occurred amongst thousands of fully vaccinated children. The region with the highest attack rate had the highest vaccine coverage. The region with the lowest attack rate had the lowest vaccine coverage.
    (The Lancet, 21/9/91)

    - In 1990, a UK survey involving 598 doctors revealed that over 50% of them refused to have the Hepatitis B vaccine despite belonging to the high risk group urged to be vaccinated.
    (British Med Jnl, 27/1/1990)

    - In 1990, the Journal of the American Medical Association had an article on measles which stated " Although more than 95% of school-aged children in the US are vaccinated against measles, large measles outbreaks continue to occur in schools and most cases in this setting occur among previously vaccinated children."
    (JAMA, 21/11/90)

    - In the USA, from July 1990 to November 1993, the US Food and Drug Administration counted a total of 54,072 adverse reactions following vaccination. The FDA admitted that this number represented only 10% of the real total, because most doctors were refusing to report vaccine injuries. In other words, adverse reactions for this period exceeded half a million!
    (National Vaccine Information Centre, March 2, 1994)

    - In the New England Journal of Medicine July 1994 issue a study found that over 80% of children under 5 years of age who had contracted whooping cough had been fully vaccinated.

    The CDC states that 135 children died during the 2003-2004 flu season.
    59 of these children had received their flu shots.

    - On November 2nd 2000, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) announced that its members voted at their 57th annual meeting in St Louis to pass a resolution calling for an end to mandatory childhood vaccines. The resolution passed without a single "no" vote.
    (Report by Michael Devitt)

    Fair Use Notice Title 17 U.S.C. section 107 of the US Copyright Law.
    This material is distributed without profit.
    Last edited by donnay; 02-11-2012 at 12:29 AM.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Birdlady View Post
    I will never vaccinate because I believe I was injured by a vaccine in my teenage years.
    Excellent. Then you should move to NH where your children as less likely to get sick if they do not vaccinate.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

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