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Thread: Mike Farris Hits Ron Paul

  1. #1

    Default Mike Farris Hits Ron Paul

    Mike Farris is among the most well-known figures in the American homeschooling movement. How are we to respond to his recent Facebook status (below)?

    "Ron Paul is an enemy of the legal principles that the homeschooling movement has used successfully to defend our freedom to teach our own children. He recently said that he does not believe that the 14th Amendment trumps the 10th Amendment. He said this is an abortion context (which proves that he is not politically pro-life) but, let's examine what this means in a homechooling context.

    In the 1920s, the State of Oregon banned all private education. This Oregon law was challenged as a violation of the 14th Amendment. The Supreme Court ruled that the 14th Amendment's Due Process Clause prohibited states from banning private education because this overrode parental rights in an unconstitutional fashion.

    If Ron Paul's philosophy were applied to this case, then Oregon's law would have prevailed under the 10th Amendment.

    The case I won before the Supreme Court of Michigan for homeschooling freedom was based on the 14th Amendment. The federal constitutional principles of religious freedom and parental rights overrode the power of Michigan to require homeschoolers to all be certified teachers.

    The homeschool victory that I argued before the Court of Appeal of California when that court had previously ruled that homeschooling was illegal in that state--was based on the 14th Amendment.

    I could go on.

    Home schooling would be legal in about 3 states in this country today if Ron Paul's view of the Constitution was actually practiced by the Supreme Court.

    So I have a quesxtion for all of the members of Homeschoolers for Ron Paul: Do you agree with Ron Paul that the states have the exclusive authority over the legality of homeschooling and the 14th Amendment provides no constitutional right to homeschool?

    How can you support a candidate who denies the very constitutional principle that our movement used to win our freedom?

    Supporting Ron Paul in the name of homeschooling is like supporting Barack Obama in the name of reducing the national debt."



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  3. #2

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    Do you believe the Feds should exercise power of education? Because if you believe in the 14th Amendment you surely do.

  4. #3

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    Such a bullshit charge. Paul is the candidate most favorable to homeschoolers. Campaign should respond & turn into a positive.

  5. #4

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    Instead of building a strawman, this guy should ask Paul directly. Given his answer to states banning contraception last night, I'm quite sure he'd like his judges to protect homeschooling from state overreach.
    Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne,--
    Yet that scaffold sways the future, and, behind the dim unknown,
    Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.
    ‫‬‫‬

  6. #5

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    Um, Ron Paul was the only one on stage still campaigning on abolishing the DOE!!
    Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder. ~GEORGE WASHINGTON, letter, Aug. 17, 1779

    Quit yer b*tching and whining and GET INVOLVED!!

  7. #6

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    Please provide a link / source?

  8. #7

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    you can't fix stupid. not even with homeschooling apparently.
    Last edited by torchbearer; 01-08-2012 at 12:01 PM.

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  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZanZibar View Post
    Please provide a link / source?
    It's on his Facebook, which is private. So I can't. Sorry!

  10. #9

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    IMO, the good news is most home schoolers and their parents are critical thinkers. That's why they home school (Most, not all).

    They are not going to take one man's word for it, I don't think.
    Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder. ~GEORGE WASHINGTON, letter, Aug. 17, 1779

    Quit yer b*tching and whining and GET INVOLVED!!

  11. #10

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    What kind of responses is he getting on his Facebook page? What he is saying is definitely a strawman attack. This is straight from the official campaign website on homeschooling:

    In many cases, homeschooling families must forgo the second income of one parent, as well as incur the costs of paying for textbooks, computers, and other school supplies.

    And with combined taxes taking almost 50 percent of the average familyís income, there is little left over for low- and middle-class parents to even consider other educational opportunities.

    Thatís why, during his time in Congress, Ron Paul has introduced legislation to:

    * Help parents better educate their children by providing parents with a $5,000 per child tax credit for tutors, books, computers, and other K-12 related educational needs.

    * Ensure that the federal government treats high school diplomas earned through homeschooling the same as other high school diplomas.
    PUT PARENTS BACK IN CHARGE

    Congressman Paul wants parents to have the freedom to choose the best educational options for their children, and his commitment to ensuring homeschooling remains a practical alternative for American families is unmatched by any other Presidential candidate.

    As President, he will veto any legislation that encroaches on homeschooling parentsí rights.

    Returning control of education to parents and teachers on the local level is the centerpiece of Ron Paulís education agenda.
    My guess is that Mike Farris opposes Ron Paul for other reasons (Israel??) and is trying to turn homeschoolers against him for the wrong reasons.
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  12. #11

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    Mike Farris is a huge neocon who endorsed Mike Huckabee in 08.

  13. #12

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    A State can't ban private education. They may require their chattel to go to public schools, but that is only for those that choose to register (Marriage License, etc.) with the State in the first place.
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  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by falconplayer11 View Post
    Mike Farris is among the most well-known figures in the American homeschooling movement. How are we to respond to his recent Facebook status (below)?

    "Ron Paul is an enemy of the legal principles that the homeschooling movement has used successfully to defend our freedom to teach our own children. He recently said that he does not believe that the 14th Amendment trumps the 10th Amendment. He said this is an abortion context (which proves that he is not politically pro-life) but, let's examine what this means in a homechooling context.
    Not really sure what Ron's complete opinion on the function of the 14th amendment in a homeschooling context would be, but I will try to suggest an argument. The reason he might feel the 10th amendment trumps the 14th in abortion could be the fact that the 14th amendment applies to "persons" and at the moment, there is no law defining personhood as beginning at conception and therefore unborn children are not legally entitled to the protection of due process under the 14th amendment. I know Ron believes it is a person, but he may feel legally obligated to defer to the states until an amendment could be passed.

    Therefore, just because Ron defers to the states in abortion doesn't prove that he would do the same for homeschoolers if he feels that they are being denied due process under the 14th amendment, since they are certainly legally entitled to that protection.
    "Truth will win in the end -- we just don't know when the end is, so we have to persevere" ~Carol Paul

  15. #14

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    I got a personal email from Jim Mason with the HSLDA that they would not be making an endorsement. If that has changed I will be canceling my membership. Does anyone have any evidence?

  16. #15

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    How surprising, a group wants special privileges from the government at the expense of others.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Perhaps the most important lesson from Obamacare is that while liberty is lost incrementally, it cannot be regained incrementally. The federal leviathan continues its steady growth; sometimes boldly and sometimes quietly. Obamacare is just the latest example, but make no mistake: the statists are winning. So advocates of liberty must reject incremental approaches and fight boldly for bedrock principles.
    The epitome of libertarian populism

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by falconplayer11 View Post
    Mike Farris is a huge neocon who endorsed Mike Huckabee in 08.
    Steve McKamey addressed this in 2008 on LewRockwell.com:

    An Open Letter to Homeschoolers on Behalf of Ron Paul

    by Steve McKamey

    Open Letters


    Homeschooling is now a viable option for parents who are religiously motivated or just fed up with the government school systems that have been increasingly federalized and as a result, increasingly non-performers. It was not always so. In the 1960ís, you could be arrested in most states for attempting to homeschool. A few brave souls pushed back and started that revolution. Among them were Christian homeschoolers and especially the Rev. R.J. Rushdoony.

    Fast-forward to the present and the privately organized group, Homeschool Legal Defense Association (HSLDA) routinely battles the socialists who try to terrorize parents that elect to educate their children at home. More often than not, HSLDA wins these battles. The homeschooling movement is self-organizing, internet-savvy, and highly motivated just like Ron Paulís supporters. In some instances, these two groups overlap. It is quite natural.

    It seems as though Mike Farris, the founder of HSLDA, and some of the "leaders" of the movement are coalescing behind the Presidential campaign of former Baptist Minister and former Arkansas Governor, Mike Huckabee. I want to sincerely ask Mike Farris and all homeschoolers to stop and think before jumping on the Huckabee bandwagon.

    First of all, read the statement of faith posted by Ron Paul on his campaign website. Compare this with the page on Mike Huckabeeís website. Did you see anything missing from Huckabeeís page? Because Huckabee doesnít define what his faith is in, is it possible that his faith is in government? Look at all of the things that he wants to do with government (i.e. your money) because of his undefined "faith." Ron Paul freely confesses his faith but doesnít wave it around as a political rallying flag.

    The second issue is homeschooling itself. Ron Paul would do away entirely with the federal bureaucracy that uses you tax dollars to hire swarms of education agents that harass home educators with a religious fervor. Come to think of it maybe I have just had a revelation. What homeschool organization would most likely suffer if its raison d'Ítre were suddenly abolished? They shouldnít worry. It will take at least a generation to root out the educational socialists from the state and local levels. I looked on Huckabeeís website for a statement on homeschooling and all that I found was this. The last statement in that link should be all that homeschoolers need to know about Huckabee:

    As President, I will use my broad and deep expertise in education policy to lift up our children and America's economic future.

    In short, Mike Huckabee will retain the Department of Education and its attendant funding that is used to harass homeschoolers. To be fair, he might make life difficult for these bureaucrats. Ron Paul would eliminate them from federal service, never to harass anyone ever again while hiding behind a federal badge. Mike Huckabee plans to spend the money that the IRS steals from you to give scholarships to illegal aliens. (How many more will this inspire to hop the fence?) Ron Paul will eliminate the IRS and its immoral tax. Eliminating the benefits (including free public education for their children) will do far more than building a fence to discourage Mexicans from wading across the Rio Grande.

    If Mike Huckabee wants to head an organization that takes peopleís money to do Godís work, why didnít he remain a Baptist Minister? The tithe is voluntary. The income tax is not (try not paying and see how many ninja-wannabe federal warriors descend on you to encourage compliance).

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/mckamey6.html
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  18. #17
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    The government you would like is not the government you will get nor deserve if you fight for it but it's easier to fight at the state level than it is at the national level.

    I would be willing to bet that states that attack homeschooling are doing so because of pressure from the feds.
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  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by roversaurus View Post
    I got a personal email from Jim Mason with the HSLDA that they would not be making an endorsement. If that has changed I will be canceling my membership. Does anyone have any evidence?
    If they are smart, they will recognize that homeschoolers overwhelmingly support Dr. Paul, and will keep their opinions out of the public since they are funded through their subscribers like you.
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  20. #19

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    I'm not a good blogger, but as a Christian I have a real problem with people who allow our government to get God's glory instead of Him. People who claim they want to save others, yet argue for more government intervention in the place of Christians - to me are spreading false idols.
    Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder. ~GEORGE WASHINGTON, letter, Aug. 17, 1779

    Quit yer b*tching and whining and GET INVOLVED!!

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by mosquitobite View Post
    I'm not a good blogger, but as a Christian I have a real problem with people who allow our government to get God's glory instead of Him. People who claim they want to save others, yet argue for more government intervention in the place of Christians - to me are spreading false idols.
    Idolatry is status quo for the church today. The biggest idol is the medical system, which has replaced healing in the church.> http://created4health.org/devotional...st_Century.htm

    Homeschoolers tend to be the most independent liberty-minded. That's why I wonder if Farris is just sour grapes over the prospect of Israel not getting special favors anymore due to dispensationialsist theology, as most other evangelical leaders are who attack Dr. Paul.
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  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    Idolatry is status quo for the church today. The biggest idol is the medical system, which has replaced healing in the church.> http://created4health.org/devotional...st_Century.htm

    Homeschoolers tend to be the most independent liberty-minded. That's why I wonder if Farris is just sour grapes over the prospect of Israel not getting special favors anymore due to dispensationialsist theology, as most other evangelical leaders are who attack Dr. Paul.
    I think Farris is threatened by Paul. Paul takes Farris' strict constitutionalism literally and ends up proving that things like drug legalization, gay marriage, etc. are constitutional...things Farris won't deny but does NOT want to happen.

  23. #22

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    Mike Farris on Huckabee show
    Last edited by falconplayer11; 01-08-2012 at 09:14 PM.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by falconplayer11 View Post
    I think Farris is threatened by Paul. Paul takes Farris' strict constitutionalism literally and ends up proving that things like drug legalization, gay marriage, etc. are constitutional...things Farris won't deny but does NOT want to happen.
    That website about idolatry and the healthcare system is great, btw.

  25. #24

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    For me, the biggest falsehood is the "Jesus was a liberal"

    I love to reply: "So when unsaved people go to the welfare office (or WIC or Section 8 etc) do you think they leave there with their check praising the Lord? If our God given mission is to spread the gospel to bring people to Christ - government is one large false idol! Think about how many more people we could save if the Church were really fulfilling her role!"

    *shakes head* This is why the religious right disgusts me!
    Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder. ~GEORGE WASHINGTON, letter, Aug. 17, 1779

    Quit yer b*tching and whining and GET INVOLVED!!

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by falconplayer11 View Post
    That website about idolatry and the healthcare system is great, btw.
    Love this line:
    The heart of idolatry is looking to sources outside of God for our basic needs and desires in life.

    Too many people don't get that! Too many people that call themselves Christians don't get that!
    Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder. ~GEORGE WASHINGTON, letter, Aug. 17, 1779

    Quit yer b*tching and whining and GET INVOLVED!!

  27. #26

    Default Rebuttal posted

    I just wrote and posted a rebuttal, based in some cases on comments in this thread. Thanks!

    Why Michael Farris is Wrong about Ron Paul on Homeschooling

    Comments, corrections, and critiques welcome.
    Last edited by jrowberg; 01-09-2012 at 06:08 AM.

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by mosquitobite View Post
    Love this line:
    The heart of idolatry is looking to sources outside of God for our basic needs and desires in life.

    Too many people don't get that! Too many people that call themselves Christians don't get that!
    Yep. The church for the most part has given up their authority for being agents of healing and resources of taking care of the poor and passed it on to the government, putting their trust in the government instead of God. That is the classical definition of idolatry. It just looks different in 21st Century America, but is seen best in their trust in legal drugs, which are now the third leading cause of death in America today.

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  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrowberg View Post
    I just wrote and posted a rebuttal, based in some cases on comments in this thread. Thanks!

    Why Michael Farris is Wrong about Ron Paul on Homeschooling

    Comments, corrections, and critiques welcome.
    Thanks for the actual link to the Farris post and comments on Facebook. It seems that the few Ron Paul supporters there did convince Mike Farris to contact the Ron Paul campaign to discuss the homeschool issue:


    Robert Claydon : As a life member of HSLDA and homeschool dad, I deeply appreciate all you've done for us. However, I'd humbly support Carolee Adams' initial suggestion: why not approach Ron Paul/his campaign with your concerns? While I haven't decided which candidate to vote for yet, I'm concerned that your statement is an attack on one of the candidates who most consistently has supported individual liberties (including homeschooling) and holding back federal tyranny (which is a tool of its most ardent foes). There are pros and cons to Paul, I agree; however, be careful that you don't unwittingly help set up a Romney - Obama choice in November (neither of which I'd call a supporter of homeschooling). Have you approached the Paul campaign to say something to the effect of "I understand you want to support homeschooling; this is my concern where your statements would lead..."?

    Michael Farris: Robert, I am taking you up on this and am looking for a way for such a meeting.
    I hope he really does this, and comes around to understanding Ron Paul's pro-homeschool position.
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  30. #29

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    There was a question that was posed on your well-written rebuttal,

    Then how do you explain Dr. Paul’s advocacy for a $5000 homeschool tax-credit? This gives the IRS authority to potentially define who is a homeschooler and what is a legitimate educational expense, or institution. Paul’s desire to give us back some of our money is noble but with a terrible outcome and very weak Constitutional legitimacy. Add to that Paul’s desire to ensure that homeschoolers are treated “fairly” in federal hiring and you have another potential arena for federal mischief.
    My answer to the HS'ers is that you have the OPTION to NOT APPLY for the tax credit if you are philosophically opposed...



    I see that you updated your blog - Thanks!
    Last edited by WyoLiberty; 01-09-2012 at 11:15 AM.
    "In the beginning, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot." ~ Mark Twain


  31. #30

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    BUMP
    "In the beginning, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot." ~ Mark Twain


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