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There were some great responses, but no argument is as strong as the argument for life. The right to life is a major issue for most Christians, but at the same time we forget about the lives of those effected by our foreign policies. Our actions around the world have caused countless needless deaths that did not contribute to our national defense. Our troops are getting killed by the thousands and wounded or maimed by the tens of thousands. If you believe in life then you should support Dr. Paul's foreign policy that would end so much bloodshed around the world. The right to life issue also comes up in regards to Roe v. Wade. While others are arguing for a Constitutional Amendment, Dr. Paul actually understands the Constitution and he understands that the jurisdiction of the courts are determined by legislation, so just passing a law limiting the scope of the court could effectively repeal Roe v. Wade without a Constitutional Amendment. By getting the Federal Courts out of the picture, instead of the states having to agree on the same plan, each state could put prohibitions on abortions as the People of the each state see fit.
This all related to the original question of the role of the federal government in states rights. The question isn't legalizing prostitution, gay marriage, or medical marijuana, there are parts of the country that have already done this, it is a question of the right of the federal government to intimidate, harass, and arrest people who are following the laws of their state. Do we want to continue to arrest cancer patients for smoking medical marijuana? Following the Constitution and the 10th Amendment are not endorsing nor promoting sin, but it is giving you a greater voice in government while giving you the freedom to enjoy and promote your traditions. If Ron Paul is elected and he passes this legislation concerning abortion, you will have the opportunity to pass legislation in your state to protect life.
"Time is catching up with me." -Ron Paul
"It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
Giordano Bruno (1548-1600), Italian scientist and philosopher
I merely pointed out that the freedoms that we enjoy in Western civilization does not come from the Reformation as someone in this thread erroneously stated, but instead the Age of Enlightenment and gave several quotes from Voltaire and several Founding Fathers of America, several of whom were Deists, not Christians.
Besides the Federal Reserve, nothing is destroying America more then basing our foreign policy on Religious Right's myth that we must protect "God's chosen people". We have put our nation in perpetual debt fighting useless wars over the last twenty years, not to promote democracy, but as mercenaries for the state of Israel all because we have allowed religious zealots to frame the debate through the lens of their Bible instead of what is in America's best interests.
Hardly anyone is paying attention to the fact that just in the last six years, those checking the "no preference" box on religious surveys has doubled, from around 10% to 20%. And if we add those who are Christian in name only, the percentage is much higher. One researcher on religious trends in America went as far as to state that 7 in 10 young Americans no longer care for religion.
The Religious Right high jacked the Republican party back in the early 1980s, and thankfully their days are numbered now. If it wasn't for Ron Paul running a campaign based on reality instead of the Bible, the Republican party would be in more trouble then they are right now.
Thank you, that is so true. If we go by his logic, then where does it stop? There are so many things that are sins, but from our society's perspective are just normal, everyday things. (I don't think I need to write a list here, but most of you know what I mean.) He really reminds me of the Pharisees who were so legalistic, to the point of absurdity and missing the point entirely.... and they were the ones who Jesus had the MOST criticism for, because they only cared about what everyone else did, not realizing that inside they were prideful and hateful and hypocritical. Thanks for bringing that up.
Thanks so much, excellent post. I feel much more prepared now to deal with this guy and others like him, who completely misunderstand RP's position. No wonder they like Santorum, he is just as much an authoritarian as my pharisee-like friend. I feel like this is an important topic to discuss with social conservatives, and I think there is a strong need for us believing liberty-minded people to educate and inform those who may have good intentions but are misguided. Btw, liberals are the same way, ironically. They want to enforce THEIR ideas about what is right or wrong on everyone else...as much as the other side does. We need to get both sides to see what they are doing, and point them towards RP's view of following the constitution.
Thank you. That pretty much sums it up. Now I just need to get my thoughts together and write an article about this, to share with all those I know who have personal values that are traditional, but profess to believe in liberty. And explain to them that RP's position is correct, both constitutionally and from a Christian perspective, imo.
Yeah, I haven't been spending as much time dealing with him lately on facebook. But I hope that eventually he does realize he's being an authoritarian, and his position actually goes against the faith he professes to believe in, on a number of levels.
That's what I try to do, just point them to his actual positions and his consistent record, and tell them to stop believing the lies put out by the establishment/MSM who just want to bring him down.
Thanks for all of your comments, you all! This thread has been very helpful.
Last edited by lilymc; 01-08-2012 at 05:13 PM.
“I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”
― Henry David Thoreau
Oh my gosh.... I am FUMING right now. I have another online friend, who has almost the exact same views as the one I have been debating. He also hates Ron Paul with a passion, mainly because of his foreign policy.
So I post a photo on my facebook wall (the one of Ron and Rand in the 60's) with a comment that he is one of the only candidates who served in the military, unlike the others who never did but easily send our young men and women off to war. I know that comment probably bothered my friend, because he is strongly for the wars, but he never served in the military.
Then he commented on the facebook photo, and I can't believe what I read. Here's the conversation:
Idolater
13 minutes ago · Like
Oh my gosh, LOL! Supporting a presidential candidate is "idolatry" to you? You've got to be kidding me.
10 minutes ago · Like
I'll pray for you. May your blinded eyes be opened.
9 minutes ago · Like
I'm not the one supporting numerous undeclared, imperialistic wars. And I'm not the one who expressed a lack of concern that thousands of innocent civilians have died. I think you should be more concerned about your own spiritual condition, before telling me that I'm an "idolater" for supporting a presidential candidate. *roll eyes*
6 minutes ago · Like
get behind me satan
5 minutes ago · Like
Ok, now I know you need help. I'm satanic for supporting Ron Paul now? Now I've heard it all! lol (I shouldn't laugh, because that is actually very sad.)
4 minutes ago · Like
You're satanic for being a judgmental, condescending idolater. You better pray to Jesus and ask for forgiveness now.
3 minutes ago · Like
YOu are a liar. Repent or burn. I am dead serious.
about a minute ago · Like
Ok, let me get this straight. I post a photo. *You* call me an "idolater". And that is not judgmental? But when I defend myself, I'm judgmental, even though what I said was true? Ok, got it.
“I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”
― Henry David Thoreau
Me thinks your friend is nuts.
================
Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.
Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America
The Property Basis of Rights
It got even worse than that. I'm still in disbelief.... and I don't know what to do, because I have some facebook friends who I don't want reading all that crap.
My sister told me to just delete the photo. I said some things that probably made him even more angry, so I probably should've just ignored him or tried to calm the conversation down, but he really made me mad, and I responded.
I wish some of you could reply. If you go to Ron Paul's facebook page, you will see the photo there because I tagged Ron Paul, and it is public. I'll get the link.
Does this link work?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...=photo_comment
Last edited by lilymc; 01-08-2012 at 10:37 PM.
“I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”
― Henry David Thoreau
Ok, I hate to resurrect this thread, especially after that embarrassing facebook exchange I posted (which is actually from another neocon guy I know, not the one mentioned in the OP)
But I have to ask a question, and I didn't want to create a new thread just for this question.
The first guy is now saying (yelling, ranting) a bunch of things on FR about Ron Paul that sound as horrible as it gets, and I wanted to find out what was a lie/distortion/half-truth and what was actually true.
Here's what he's saying now:
Obviously it's a lie that RP would support pedophilia, but I just wanted to get to the actual truth here on things like age of consent, and that horrible organization, etc. Thanks.
“I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”
― Henry David Thoreau
All I see are a bunch of poorly constructed Straw man and guilt by association fallacies. Lol, Was that guy seriously demanding you repent…you cant really have a rational debate of substance with someone like that. So he went sifting through posts on the DP that are four years old? He’s just grasping for any potential straws- and making an ass of himself in the process. The Video you posted was set as private, but honestly I wouldn’t even bother wasting time with that guy.
Paul has no extreme ideas about anything... He is the least extreme candidate running... Constitution... you have a right to live, you have a right to protect your family, you have a right to choose your own lifestyle, you have a right to reap what you sow, you have a right to feed your family, you have a right to defend your family.
How is that extreme? The other candidates are extreme... they take your money, and use it to fund their lobbyists... who then in turn, return the money to their campaigns.. basically stealing taxpayer dollars to fund their own campaigns... the rest they use to go murder people around the globe.. so every dollar you pay in taxes, might be the same dollars used to murder innocent women and children... at the same time they are supplying arms to the Mexican Drug Cartels, and earning billions in their personal bank accounts for dealing drugs. They want to take your guns away, so the cartels and american military are the only arms in Ameria... you think Ron Paul is extreme? Someone better wake up, and wake up fast !!
CPT Jack. R. T.
US Army Resigned - Iraq Vet.
Level III MACP instructor, USYKA/WYKKO sensei
Professional Hunter/Trapper/Country living survivalist.
Well, I don't want to deal with him anymore, but he has been posting to me on FR and if I don't respond to his "NAMBLA" accusation, it might make him think that he is right or that I have no reply. Lies like that (which other people can read, since it's a big site) can turn many people away, so I feel a responsibility to correct them and refute the smears. But I wasn't clear on RP's position on the age of consent thing... or how his latest smear even originated.
As for the repent thing... that was another guy (who has the same exact views) and yes, he was serious. He seems to have gone off the deep end, but I shouldn't have responded to him in anger, I should've either ignored him or replied with a different tone. Anyway, I guess to him I'm like the 'enemy' now, and he seems to think I've gone over to the "dark side." haha Thanks moonshine.
I agree with you, but I'm talking about what strong social conservatives think.... they think that he wants to legalize even hard drugs, so from their perspective, it's 'extreme' to support the legalization of drugs like heroin, etc.
Heh, I love that quote. Thanks.
Last edited by lilymc; 01-11-2012 at 11:31 PM.
“I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”
― Henry David Thoreau
The government's job is to defend our freedom of choice.
Religion's job is to help us make better choices.
Just because one defends someone's freedom of choice doesn't mean they endorse their choices.
The right to one's freedom of religion is preserved by this same principle of individual liberty.
"Liberty... is the great parent of science and of virtue; and a nation will be great in both always in proportion as it is free." []
"No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another, and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him." --Thomas Jefferson
Free agency is a gift from our Creator, our Constituion and the liberty it stands for defends that gift.
Last edited by presence; 01-17-2012 at 03:52 PM.
I just want to say thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. I've been trying to win over my family for 4 years, and have made no progress. With the some of the wonderful posts here, and Voddie Bauchman's "Why Ron Paul," I've made another attempt to appeal to their Christianity. If this doesn't work, I don't think there's anything more that I could do to persuade them. Let's hope they get it after this.
"Why Ron Paul" - http://www.gracefamilybaptist.net/vo...-paul-2012-01/
I think Dr. Paul said it best himself in the last debate when he said making laws will not help morality in this country.
"I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man or ask another man to live for mine." - The Objectivist Oath, given by John Galt in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged.
10th Amendment, States right's, federalism, etc.
I'd use some of Ron Paul's own words to describe these "extreme policies"
Supporting freedom of choice is not endorsement. That's like saying if you support the fourth amendment you're for pornography. It's ridiculous. It's really a matter of who regulates these substances. The most effective regulation comes from the individual, church, and family; not from any law.
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Hit him right where it hurts, in the religion: http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/ch...-libertarians/
I've never read a verse in the Bible that says that everything that's a sin should be a crime.
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