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Thread: Steve Deace is attacking us!

  1. #1

    Default Steve Deace is attacking us!

    Steve has come up and attacked us numerous times - such as after the debates, on his podcast, after the Lay Leno show.

    http://stevedeace.com/

    I wrote an article debunking his federal reserve comments. If people know how to distribute it to wider circles, please do so. You have my permission.

    If Only Ben Bernanke Were Gay, Steve Deace Would Support Ron Paul

    Steve Deace is a well-known Christian radio talk-show host in Iowa.

    Apparently, the Fed imploding the economy and disintegrating the value of the dollar is not a real priority for Steve Deace. Instead, the problem for him is homosexuality and “mass debauchery.”

    Steve wrongly thinks that being gay – a lifestyle that harms no one, and violates no federal law according to our founding documents – is a more serious problem than the mass looting of every American’s wealth since 1913.

    “[The bible says] the sign of a culture under judgment has nothing to do with a debauched currency. The sign of a culture under judgment is debauchery mainstream,” says Steve Deace.

    So if Ben Bernanke and everyone else at the Federal Reserve were having steamy, hot gay sex rather than counterfeiting the money supply, would Steve finally make the Federal Reserve a top concern?

    Steve really has warped and twisted priorities.

    When the economy self-destructs, the dollar has no purchasing power, and the people are rioting in the streets, like we saw in Egypt and Greece, the banning of gay marriage isn’t going to comfort many Christians.

    Let’s treat this realistically: Will Steve care about other people’s sex lives when his fellow Christians’ savings are completely wiped out, or when they have little to no food to eat?

    In response to Ron Paul successfully ending the Federal Reserve, Steve says, “you’ll have different people – just as debauched – creating a different system that’ll give you the exact same problem.”

    Of course, this isn’t true. When Ron is president, he would try and take monetary policy out of the government’s hands, and allow for competition between currencies in the free-market. Debauched or not, politicians would have very little control over it. This would let Americans choose the currency that’s right for them – whether that’s gold, silver, or rolls of toilet paper with American presidents’ faces printed on them.

    Using precious metals as currency would make it extremely difficult for “debauched politicians” to artificially inflate the money supply, or force Americans into using a currency based on monetized debt – especially if multiple currencies were in use simultaneously.

    Steve contradicts himself further by saying, “you can’t have sound money without having sound character.” So if Newt Gingrich decided to buy his next mistress something at Tiffany’s and paid for it using gold bullion, he would not be using sound money Steve? Sound money and sound character are mutually exclusive things.

    Steve goes on to say we must, “first recover our character and morality as a people.” How do we go about that Steve? Force everyone to follow the bible against their will – and then everything will be sunshine and lollypops? Say goodbye to our first amendment rights.

    How about through the government? Well, it hasn’t stopped discrimination and racism. It hasn’t stopped prostitution. It hasn’t stopped the drug war and the consumption of alcohol. Instead, the government has made every single one of these areas in society much worse - and they are not even real crimes.

    So, the government has been really lousy at legislating morality too. Not only that, all of these programs were violations of our rights to life, liberty and property – you know, the things everyone in our government took an oath to protect in the first place.

    Steve needs to understand that individuals have free-will, and that morality is a choice. Dr. Paul can’t force individuals to be moral – nor would it be moral for him to even try. What Ron can do, however, is support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic – and that’s getting rid of the Fed.

    Ron Paul succinctly says, “There is no greater threat to the security and prosperity of the United States today than the out-of-control, secretive Federal Reserve.”

    Ron doesn’t come to this conclusion by reading the New Testament Steve, even though he’s a Christian. Ron comes to this conclusion by using logic and reason, and by following the Constitution. It would be un-American to swear an oath to anything else other than the Constitution.

    Reason is our primary tool for survival and prosperity - and it should also be used by presidential candidates when they make decisions that affect the survival and prosperity of every American.

    Ron Paul is the only candidate that consistently uses logic and reason to establish his policies - and that's why Ron doesn't conclude that homosexuals are a bigger problem than dealing with the Fed. In fact, homosexuals have the same rights as every American, as protected under our constitution.
    Last edited by fecharacterguide; 12-19-2011 at 10:31 AM.



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  3. #2

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    I'm not sure why we should care about every person with a microphone and an audience who decides to attack Dr. Paul. But if he needs someone who's gay to be in on the financial scandals in order to be mad about them then point him to Barney Frank.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Eze 22:25 There's a conspiracy of prophets within her....

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.

  4. #3

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    Heh, yeah, I should have talked him too

  5. #4

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    Your article will be completely unpersuasive to Steve Deace.

    "Ron doesn’t come to this conclusion by reading the New Testament Steve, even though he’s a Christian. Ron comes to this conclusion by using logic and reason, and by following the Constitution. It would be un-American to swear an oath to anything else other than the Constitution."

    That's his main criticism of Ron Paul. You win him over by showing him how Ron's positions ARE biblical.

  6. #5

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    here's the hit piece, don't give it any traffic... and break the link

    Common Sense: Ron Paul on the Tonight Show

    by Bob Eschliman

    Ron Paul pretty well sealed his fate with a majority of Republican voters with his performance Friday night on “The Tonight Show with Jay Leno.” But most Republicans may be focusing on the wrong comments when they make that assessment of the congressman’s presidential aspirations.
    Last edited by JoshLowry; 12-19-2011 at 12:40 PM. Reason: copypasta removed

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by MRoCkEd View Post
    Your article will be completely unpersuasive to Steve Deace.

    "Ron doesn’t come to this conclusion by reading the New Testament Steve, even though he’s a Christian. Ron comes to this conclusion by using logic and reason, and by following the Constitution. It would be un-American to swear an oath to anything else other than the Constitution."

    That's his main criticism of Ron Paul. You win him over by showing him how Ron's positions ARE biblical.
    Exactly.
    Last edited by LibertyEagle; 12-19-2011 at 10:50 AM.
    “I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,”
    he acknowledged, but "eventually, if you want to bring about changes … what you have to do is participate in political
    action.
    ” -- Ron Paul


    "We do have some differences and our approaches will be different, but that makes him his own person. I mean why should he [Rand] be a clone and do everything and think just exactly as I have. I think it's an opportunity to be independent minded. We are about 99% the same on issues." "People Try To Drive Wedges Between Rand And Me." --Ron Paul

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=pB5JgzBVHN0

    The Property Basis of Rights

  8. #7

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by MRoCkEd View Post
    Your article will be completely unpersuasive to Steve Deace.

    "Ron doesn’t come to this conclusion by reading the New Testament Steve, even though he’s a Christian. Ron comes to this conclusion by using logic and reason, and by following the Constitution. It would be un-American to swear an oath to anything else other than the Constitution."

    That's his main criticism of Ron Paul. You win him over by showing him how Ron's positions ARE biblical.
    Good point. Here are some Bible verses that may help.

    John 8:7-11
    New King James Version (NKJV)

    7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up[a] and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience,[b] went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her,[c] “Woman, where are those accusers of yours?[d] Has no one condemned you?”
    11 She said, “No one, Lord.”
    And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and[e] sin no more.”

    Matthew 10:14
    And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.

    Matthew 23:23
    “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

    Matthew 7:3
    "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

    Matthew 19:9
    And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”


    The New Testament is clear. The primary duty of the Christian is to live a moral life himself. It is not to go around attacking the moral failings of others. Sure Ron Paul isn't out condemning gays every chance he gets, but he's not running around getting divorced and remarried multiple times and/or cheating on his wife. Would Mr. Deace prefer a candidate Paul who was on his 3rd or 4th wife but hated gays?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Eze 22:25 There's a conspiracy of prophets within her....

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by MRoCkEd View Post
    Your article will be completely unpersuasive to Steve Deace.

    "Ron doesn’t come to this conclusion by reading the New Testament Steve, even though he’s a Christian. Ron comes to this conclusion by using logic and reason, and by following the Constitution. It would be un-American to swear an oath to anything else other than the Constitution."

    That's his main criticism of Ron Paul. You win him over by showing him how Ron's positions ARE biblical.
    Well, I'm not a christian.

    But I also think it's possible to use the bible to justify almost any position. There are only a few positions in the bible that can't be twisted.

    I wasn't hoping to win Steve over. I was hoping to win his listeners or other christians over in general.

    I don't even think Steve in genuine. He smears Ron quite a bit lately. It doesn't even sound logical at all. I actually think he is getting paid to do what he's doing.

    My post was for his listeners.

  11. #10

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    Give Ron another 5 points distance in the polls and Deace will endorse him.

    From what I can tell, Deace gives lip service to biblical values, but just like with Huckabee, he'll endorse the winner after it's already pretty much a done deal. The only reason he's trolled Paul supporters is so that he doesn't look like a complete hypocrite if he has to endorse Paul when he's unquestionably the front-runner.

    I actually believe he's already shown himself to be a complete hypocrite by not endorsing Santorum, who is in every way Deace's ideal candidate. He won't do it because it will make him look irrelevant instead of the kingmaker so many absurdly think he is.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by randomname View Post
    here's the hit piece, don't give it any traffic... and break the link
    Please do not copy/paste whole articles.When my members do this I get lawsuit threats in my inbox.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by fecharacterguide View Post
    Well, I'm not a christian.

    But I also think it's possible to use the bible to justify almost any position. There are only a few positions in the bible that can't be twisted.

    I wasn't hoping to win Steve over. I was hoping to win his listeners or other christians over in general.

    I don't even think Steve in genuine. He smears Ron quite a bit lately. It doesn't even sound logical at all. I actually think he is getting paid to do what he's doing.

    My post was for his listeners.
    I appreciate the effort, but if you are not a Christian yourself please don't bother trying to win Christians over when you could be more productive with your time. Ron Paul is attracting a broad group of people, but I think it's best if people recognize their own sphere of influence and stick with it. As a social conservative I recognize my limits and the type of people I can win over. Even though I can think of plenty of reasons why LGBT folk should side with Ron I understand my personal opinions severely limit my persuasiveness with that group. Persuasion is not all about logic and reason.

  14. #13
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    He needs to invite Tom Woods back on his show.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I appreciate the effort, but if you are not a Christian yourself please don't bother trying to win Christians over when you could be more productive with your time. Ron Paul is attracting a broad group of people, but I think it's best if people recognize their own sphere of influence and stick with it. As a social conservative I recognize my limits and the type of people I can win over. Even though I can think of plenty of reasons why LGBT folk should side with Ron I understand my personal opinions severely limit my persuasiveness with that group. Persuasion is not all about logic and reason.
    +rep
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Eze 22:25 There's a conspiracy of prophets within her....

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I appreciate the effort, but if you are not a Christian yourself please don't bother trying to win Christians over when you could be more productive with your time. Ron Paul is attracting a broad group of people, but I think it's best if people recognize their own sphere of influence and stick with it. As a social conservative I recognize my limits and the type of people I can win over. Even though I can think of plenty of reasons why LGBT folk should side with Ron I understand my personal opinions severely limit my persuasiveness with that group. Persuasion is not all about logic and reason.
    What group should I try and write for then? Anyone that agrees with my own views is already probably voting for Ron Paul.

    The best way to describe me is an objectivist... but not an "Objectivist". I agree with a non-interventionist foreign policy for example - I think it's more accurate than what Rand had said. They are actually pretty similar though, but Rand also wanted to go to war with people who attacked a country's way of life... and that's really blurry for me.

    So I don't agree with all of Rand's positions, but I probably 95%+ of them.

    I do think I differ a lot more with Libertarians (like Bob Barr for example, or any random libertarian) than the objectivist positions. Ron is actually much closer to the objectivist positions than many might think. The objectivist camp that disagrees with me is so small, it's probably not even worth it.

    Anyway, that's where I am coming from.
    Last edited by fecharacterguide; 12-19-2011 at 12:39 PM.

  17. #16
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    Oh boy, there are so many things wrong with this thread. First of all Steve Deace is wrong when he says this:

    “[The bible says] the sign of a culture under judgment has nothing to do with a debauched currency. The sign of a culture under judgment is debauchery mainstream,” says Steve Deace.
    This is wrong. When God is pronouncing judgement on Israel in Isaiah chapter 1, He specifically mentions the debasement of silver (and wine as well, because wine was used as currency):

    Isaiah 1:21-23 NASB

    How the faithful city has become a harlot,
    She who was full of justice!
    Righteousness once lodged in her,
    But now murderers.

    Your silver has become dross,
    Your drink diluted with water.


    Your rulers are rebels
    And companions of thieves;
    Everyone loves a bribe
    And chases after rewards.
    They do not defend the orphan,
    Nor does the widow's plea come before them.
    If Steve Deace doesn't understand the Bible's warnings against debasement and false weights and measures, then he is mistaken and needs to study the Scriptures:

    Leviticus 19:35 NASB

    'You shall do no wrong in judgment, in measurement of weight, or capacity."
    Proverbs 20:10 NASB

    Differing weights and differing measures,
    Both of them are abominable to the LORD.

    Also, Mrocked was right. One of the most ridiculous things I see Ron's atheist supporters doing is trying to convince Christians how they need to "use logic and reason" or whatever. I'm telling you guys...I don't know if it is a misunderstanding of the nature of thinking or maybe youth itself....guys, please don't do this. This is so stupid.

    Christians are Christians because they believe God has spoken in His Word. That Word supersedes every other word of men. There is NO REASON to try to "convert" a Christian to atheism WHEN THE BIBLE TEACHES EXACTLY WHAT RON PAUL IS SAYING.

    The Bible teaches private property, sound money, and free markets. Search through my post history if you want some more ways to show this to other Christians. I have provided a lot of links and information on these boards in that regard.


    DON'T insult Christians. Learn what the Bible says about these things and use it when you speak to Christians who don't know any better. Hit them where it hurts.

  18. #17

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    Christians are Christians because they believe God has spoken in His Word. That Word supersedes every other word of men. There is NO REASON to try to "convert" a Christian to atheism WHEN THE BIBLE TEACHES EXACTLY WHAT RON PAUL IS SAYING.
    I'm not trying to convert them to being an athiest. I'm trying to get them to use logic and reason when it comes to setting policy for the country, where obviously everyone in the country is not a christian.

    I'm also trying to get them to see that Ron Paul's positions would never inhibinit their ability to practice their religion - but to a lot of christians that listen to people like Steve Deace, that simply isn't good enough for them. They want to exert power/control over others. This is wrong.

    Christians don't realize this, but they enjoy their freedom to practice their religion because of the first amendment, and if they want to create a theorcracy and get rid of the first amendment, one day they might find themselves on the repressive end of the stick.

    Christians need to learn that they have rights to practice their religion, but don't have a right to force it on anyone else - nor should they use the bible to set policy.

    If they want to create a Christian society - such as a town, or a city - fine. Let the people who don't want that to leave and move somewhere else. But don't get this mixed up with the whole damn country and force it down everyone's throats. This is such horrible policy.

    By violating the rights of non-christians with their anti-gay positions, and things like that, they are setting themselves up to have their own rights violated.

    They need to understand this.

  19. #18

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    Sounds like a nobody.
    For the Republic! For the Cause!
    The Truth About Central Banking and Business Cycles
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaxIPPMR3fI#t=186

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by fecharacterguide View Post
    I'm not trying to convert them to being an athiest. I'm trying to get them to use logic and reason when it comes to setting policy for the country, where obviously everyone in the country is not a christian.
    Yeah, I know that's what you are doing, and that is why I said it shows your misunderstanding, because the Bible teaches a free society with property, sound money, and free markets. Obviously you don't know this, and I'm challenging you to study my post history and dig in to God's Word and understand these things.

    Also, this meme out there that atheists only "use logic and reason" and Christians only "use faith" is probably one of the most juvenile and simplistic misunderstandings of the nature of thinking that can be shown. I hesitate to even respond to it because it is beneath any rational person to believe this. It shows...again I don't know if its youth or just a complete ignorance of philosophy or what...but it just shows a misunderstanding of the nature of thought at a fundamental level.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by fecharacterguide View Post
    What group should I try and write for then? Anyone that agrees with my own views is already probably voting for Ron Paul.
    Well you could try to win over people like this guy.



    I've seen other videos of so called "libertarians" hating on Ron Paul for being pro life. Here's a good response to that crap.



    The best way to describe me is an objectivist... but not an "Objectivist". I agree with a non-interventionist foreign policy for example - I think it's more accurate than what Rand had said. They are actually pretty similar though, but Rand also wanted to go to war with people who attacked a country's way of life... and that's really blurry for me.

    So I don't agree with all of Rand's positions, but I probably 95%+ of them.

    I do think I differ a lot more with Libertarians (like Bob Barr for example, or any random libertarian) than the objectivist positions. Ron is actually much closer to the objectivist positions than many might think. The objectivist camp that disagrees with me is so small, it's probably not even worth it.

    Anyway, that's where I am coming from.
    Maybe so. But why limit yourself to just objectivists? There are a lot of people who are neither Christian nor objectivist.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Eze 22:25 There's a conspiracy of prophets within her....

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.

  22. #21

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    That might be the right strategy if Ron Paul was an atheist. But he's a Christian himself. The strongest argument Ron Paul can make to other Christians is "I'm one of you". And that strategy has been working.

    See: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/s...150637605.html

    http://www.ronpaul2012.com/2011/12/1...rties-lawsuit/


    Quote Originally Posted by fecharacterguide View Post
    I'm not trying to convert them to being an athiest. I'm trying to get them to use logic and reason when it comes to setting policy for the country, where obviously everyone in the country is not a christian.

    I'm also trying to get them to see that Ron Paul's positions would never inhibinit their ability to practice their religion - but to a lot of christians that listen to people like Steve Deace, that simply isn't good enough for them. They want to exert power/control over others. This is wrong.

    Christians don't realize this, but they enjoy their freedom to practice their religion because of the first amendment, and if they want to create a theorcracy and get rid of the first amendment, one day they might find themselves on the repressive end of the stick.

    Christians need to learn that they have rights to practice their religion, but don't have a right to force it on anyone else - nor should they use the bible to set policy.

    If they want to create a Christian society - such as a town, or a city - fine. Let the people who don't want that to leave and move somewhere else. But don't get this mixed up with the whole damn country and force it down everyone's throats. This is such horrible policy.

    By violating the rights of non-christians with their anti-gay positions, and things like that, they are setting themselves up to have their own rights violated.

    They need to understand this.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Eze 22:25 There's a conspiracy of prophets within her....

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by AquaBuddha2010 View Post
    Yeah, I know that's what you are doing, and that is why I said it shows your misunderstanding, because the Bible teaches a free society with property, sound money, and free markets. Obviously you don't know this, and I'm challenging you to study my post history and dig in to God's Word and understand these things.

    Also, this meme out there that atheists only "use logic and reason" and Christians only "use faith" is probably one of the most juvenile and simplistic misunderstandings of the nature of thinking that can be shown. I hesitate to even respond to it because it is beneath any rational person to believe this. It shows...again I don't know if its youth or just a complete ignorance of philosophy or what...but it just shows a misunderstanding of the nature of thought at a fundamental level.
    Do you really think Ron comes to all of his conclusions because of the bible? He, first and foremost, uses logic and reason to justify every single one of his positions. Hey may also use a quote in the bible to illustrate that his logic is consistent with his biblical beliefs, but he does not use the bible as his source for his thinking. There is absolutely no evidence of this. Quite the contrary is actually the case.

    If he had used the bible for his reasoning, rather than his own mind - as well as borrowed from the correct conclusions from other philosophers and economists - I would not support him. If a politician uses the bible as his foundation, rather than logic/reason and the constitution, there would be ZERO chance I would support him. For a biblical candidate, there would be no way I could predict what he might do - because you can use the bible to justify anything - even some really horrible things. That is what is wrong with the bible - you can use to support the worst atrocities and a libertarian philosophy - it can work both ways, and in a lot of other directions too. Even Ayn Rand loved many quotes in the bible too.

    Luckily, this just isn't the case with Ron Paul. He is very smart, and very rational. He does not need the bible to make his case true. I applaud him for using the bible to make his case to Christians, but it is a stretch to say the bible has helped him create his policies. I doubt that. I really, seriously doubt that. If you could read the bible and come to those policies, then why hasn't anyone else who read the bible come those policies? Were they all not real Christians? What about all the people that support Bachmann? Are they all faux Christians too? The whole bible thing is a very weak place to get policy from. It's proven to be an absolute nightmare.
    Last edited by fecharacterguide; 12-19-2011 at 01:37 PM.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by fecharacterguide View Post
    Do you really think Ron comes to all of his conclusions because of the bible? He, first and foremost, uses logic and reason to justify every single one of his positions. Hey may also use a quote in the bible to illustrate that his logic is consistent with his biblical beliefs, but he does not use the bible as his source for his thinking. There is absolutely no evidence of this. Quite the contrary is actually the case.

    If he had used the bible for his reasoning, rather than his own mind - as well as borrowed from the correct conclusions from other philosophers and economists - I would not support him. If a politician uses the bible as his foundation, rather than logic/reason and the constitution, there would be ZERO chance I would support him. For a biblical candidate, there would be no way I could predict what he might do - because you can use the bible to justify anything - even some really horrible things.

    Luckily, this just isn't the case with Ron Paul. He is very smart, and very rational. He does not need the bible to make his case true.
    People have used the constitution to justify some pretty horrible things. Just look at the state we're in right now with "constitutional law professor" Obama as president. I find it odd that even though you support Ron Paul's positions, if you somehow found out that they were primarily based on the Bible you would turn against him based on that fact alone. Anyhow, glad we support the same man, even if for different reasons.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Eze 22:25 There's a conspiracy of prophets within her....

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.

  25. #24

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    I would suggest to lay off Steve Deace. At this point, there is absolutely no way that he will endorse Ron Paul. So I wouldn't even try going there. The only thing he could do now is to talk negatively about Ron Paul and do more harm. And that is what he is on his way to doing according to a Facebook post of his:

    Some of these Ron Paul supporters from outside of Iowa clearly don't know me or how we roll, otherwise they would know bullying tactics don't work on me. If anything, it will just compel me to do things I hadn't previously considered doing to make life even harder for their candidate between now and January 3rd. Especially since we've probably done more positive coverage/opinion of Paul then pretty much everyone not already supporting him already has this year.
    Kinda sounds like a threat from him to me. But regardless, please just don't attack him personally or anything like that. It will only yield negative results. If there is something that needs to be refuted where he gets Ron Paul's position or policy incorrect, then by all means let him know. Otherwise, please just give it a rest. Nothing good can come out of it!
    "You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles"


  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    People have used the constitution to justify some pretty horrible things. Just look at the state we're in right now with "constitutional law professor" Obama as president. I find it odd that even though you support Ron Paul's positions, if you somehow found out that they were primarily based on the Bible you would turn against him based on that fact alone. Anyhow, glad we support the same man, even if for different reasons.
    There is a difference here.

    The constitution was obviously not perfect, and even despite all the amendments, the amendments themselves have made things better or worse too. Ron has gone into those, and philosophers like Ayn Rand have obviously addressed these problems as well. I think the constitution gets a lot of credit because it was the best anyone had devised up until that point, and it obviously got a lot right.

    The constitution is also not the "divine word of god" either, so there's not really a taboo for disagreeing with it and attempting to change it if parts of it are objectively wrong.

    On top of this, the language of the culture has changed a great deal since the 18th century. Many people do not get the intended meaning of the constitution, and so it is twisted. Tom Woods has done a fantastic job highlighting of all these aspects, as have a few others.

    Of course one could make this claim for the bible as well - about things being twisted - but the problem with the bible is that there's a lot of contradictory statements in it - especially the old testament. The new testament is more palatable to me, even though I don't think it is divinely inspired. Even still, there are things in the New Testament I don't agree with rationally - like self-sacrifice. I haven't read it in some time so I really can't cite a lot of specifics and other areas at the moment, and I don't feel rereading it to point them out. I have memories of not agreeing with a lot of it. I obviously don't buy into the resurrection stories and miracles either.

    The Old Testament, on the other hand, is crazy talk to me. Many Christians pull from that to support their Christian case - usually the hate-mongering stuff. That really disturbs me.

    Taking the bible as a whole, it seems like the christian god is one of the greatest flip-floppers of all time. God couldn't make up his mind on a lot of things. For a supreme and perfect being, he certainly had very inefficient ways of stating his commandments, and all sorts of things. I just think a moral rational mind would have done a better job with that.

    Anyway, I don't mean to piss anyone off. There are Christians I like - like Ron Paul, and this girl I met swing dancing in Ohio named Elizabeth. I can perfectly get along with Christians just fine, as long as they understand why my rights are and don't violate them. Unfortunately, not all Christians seem to think this way - such as Steve Deace and Michelle Bachmann and Rick Santorum

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by ord33 View Post
    I would suggest to lay off Steve Deace. At this point, there is absolutely no way that he will endorse Ron Paul. So I wouldn't even try going there. The only thing he could do now is to talk negatively about Ron Paul and do more harm. And that is what he is on his way to doing according to a Facebook post of his:

    Kinda sounds like a threat from him to me. But regardless, please just don't attack him personally or anything like that. It will only yield negative results. If there is something that needs to be refuted where he gets Ron Paul's position or policy incorrect, then by all means let him know. Otherwise, please just give it a rest. Nothing good can come out of it!
    Point taken.

  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    I find it odd that even though you support Ron Paul's positions, if you somehow found out that they were primarily based on the Bible you would turn against him based on that fact alone
    This^^. I've seen sneering & contemptuous dismissals of Ron Paul based on *nothing* more than the fact that he has expressed skepticism of evolution. I've come across claims that - no matter what RP's position is on anything else, and no matter how right RP may be about anything else - he is nevertheless an irrational demagogue who is unfit to hold public office. The "proof" of this is that RP is skeptical of evolution.

    People who "think" like that are irrational (& hence, hypocritical) fools. (And I am saying this as an evolutionist, myself.)
    tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito · fiat justitia, ruat caelum · sic semper tyrannis
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  29. #28

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    The last thing this deace troll needs is more attention.
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Snowden;
    So its, I would say; illustrative that the president would choose to say, "someone should face the music" when he knows the music is a show trial.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    This^^. I've seen sneering & contemptuous dismissals of Ron Paul based on *nothing* more than the fact that he has expressed skepticism of evolution. I've come across claims that - no matter what RP's position is on anything else, and no matter how right RP may be about anything else - he is nevertheless an irrational demagogue who is unfit to hold public office. The "proof" of this is that RP is skeptical of evolution.

    People who "think" like that are irrational (& hence, hypocritical) fools. (And I am saying this as an evolutionist, myself.)
    I never brought up the evolution point. Why? Because even though Ron said he doesn't believe in evolution (although in a book, I think he did come around), he wouldn't use religious belief/position to influence his logic and his positions.

    That's what I love about Ron Paul. If you take away the bible, his positions and the logic/rationality behind those positions don't change.

    What I fear about a candidate who uses the bible as his main source of "reasoning" is that if you took the bible away, and said he could not use it to justify his positions, there would be no logic or rationality behind his positions - such as the case with Rick Santorum or Michele Bachmann.

    Candidates like Bachmann seem like they would absolutely support insane positions if the bible claimed it, even though the logic and evidence would contradict it (such as Iran having a nuclear missile, lying about translated documents, and other such non-sense) Those kind of candidates absolutely scare the hell out of me. They will never get my vote.

    Politicians who are religious have to learn to separate their religious beliefs with their policy positions. They are not running for the office of "President of the United Theocracy of America", they are running for the president of the United States of America - and the oath only talks about supporting and protecting the constitution - not the bible.

    As long as Ron Paul keeps that straight, he will always have my vote. And from my view, he has done that magnificently for both campaigns.
    Last edited by fecharacterguide; 12-19-2011 at 02:29 PM.

  31. #30
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    Leave these blabbering idiots alone. We're becoming a forum of untreated bipolar disease. One minute someone is the best person ever, and one minute they're anathema. Get over it. I dread the minute Ben Swann says something 'unacceptable'.
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