Guard Unit Standdown:Refused to answer questionaire on lethal force on americans if ordere

[hillbilly123069]

WTH??? I salute these folks for abiding the Constitution. Some might be worried that troops are being asked this for the 1st time in a such a way. I just ran across this story and I'm about to dig up everything I can.
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2011/12/...erican-people/
***One of the questions was, will you as a member of the Nat. Guard use lethal force against the American public if ordered to do so? One of the men stepped forward and refused to take the poll and explained that it was a moral judgement on his part and that he could not do so. He then placed his weapon on the ground and fell in behind the formation. Devon said it was like a waterfall, Every member layed their weapons on the deck and fell in beside the one lone specialist. This included ALL NCO’s, STAFF NCO’s and SENIOR NCO’s. The only people left in front of the original formation was 3 Capt’s. 2 Lt’s and the BN Commander who was so upset he started having chest pains from yelling and screaming about court martials and disbandment of the unit into other units.***

[hillbilly123069]

Well, the 1st 1 thgat laid down his gun was apparently arrested, later released and now an investitgation is underway into the actions of those ordering the arrest of the 1st individual to decline the poll.

[Pericles]

Well, the 1st 1 thgat laid down his gun was apparently arrested, later released and now an investitgation is underway into the actions of those ordering the arrest of the 1st individual to decline the poll.

This part seems odd, because the guardsman would have to be in a Title 10 status to be charged under UCMJ, and that would not apply during a drill, which is Title 32 status.

There is usually a state military code, and the charge would have to be under those provisions, for actions during a drill or ADT. I think it would be hard to charge with disobeying an order, as no order had been given according to the story.

[hillbilly123069]

What scares the hell out of me is there is a poll to this effect.

[Steven Douglas]

I'm fairly careful when I read articles from oathkeepers.org, as it posts a lot of hearsay stories that are based on "So-and-so heard from someone higher up, which was then personally confirmed by so-and-so, who talked to someone else who had heard...", with no specifics that can be independently confirmed by anyone else.

The story has not been confirmed, according to Paul Lowe, the original poster at oathkeepers.org, who issued an update on the same page stating that it will not be confirmed.

I just left both people involved with the incident that took place in the last few days. The soldiers do not want to pursue this matter any further, in any way shape or form. I was advised that the situation is being dealt with inhouse and there will be internal investigations into the conduct of certain ‘officers’ who started the poll and ordered certain persons held. The person allegedly being held was only there for a couple of hours. No punishment will be handed down to any of the soldiers involved. I cannot give any further information as to names dates reasons units or places. This is in respect to my friends here. If this upsets anyone I am sorry but this is the way the soldiers want it. You have my deepest apology and I truly wish I had never spoken about any of this with my friends here on or FB. I will be posting no more information of this type due to the repercussions which could come from this.

This is similar to another story I read yesterday on that site:

“A fellow veteran contacted me concerning a new and disturbing development. He had been utilizing a Mormon cannery near his home to purchase bulk food supplies. The man that manages the facility relayed to him that federal agents had visited the facility and demanded a list of individuals that had been purchasing bulk food. The manager informed the agents that the facility kept no such records and that all transactions were conducted on a cash-and-carry basis. The agents pressed for any record of personal checks, credit card transactions, etc., but the manager could provide no such record. The agents appeared to become very agitated and after several minutes of questioning finally left with no information. I contacted the manager and personally confirmed this information."

Whether the story is true or not, the "personal confirmation" gives no new information about the incident or the alleged agents, but is a doubling of the original hearsay. The story talks about federal agents coming in, making demands and becoming agitated, but does not even identify which agency the alleged agents were from. That is a flag to me that strains plausibility, given that federal agents - especially those who would "demand" a list of customers would likely identify themselves in a way that will bolster their authority to even make such a demand - even down to leaving cards with contact information. My sister's company was recently contacted by FBI agents who did just that. It was a routine investigation involving a sale made a few years back to a company that had shipped product to South Korea. The agents called, made an appointment, showed their badges, gave their business cards with contact information (which was confirmed), and simply asked questions. They were looking for cooperation, but made no "demands".

The original story may be true as stated, fabricated, or it may be a complete embellishment (e.g., a coffee room debate gets related as an official drill exercise for emotional impact). But without actual confirmation from someone who is actually willing to go on record, I would keep a salt shaker nearby.

[GuerrillaXXI]

A lot of National Guardsmen were quite willing to confiscate citizens' guns after Hurricane Katrina. And I've seen a clip of a Marine who responded to a gun confiscation question with "Marines follow orders," after which he went on to claim that he didn't see the scenario arising.

The sad fact is that plenty of military personnel, and possibly most, will do whatever they're told, no matter how wrong. But for those who refuse and join the ranks of civilian resistance, it will be the chance to be REAL heroes who are REALLY defending freedom, unlike all the phonies who accept flattery while serving as nothing more than the attack dogs of corrupt politicians.