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Thread: Paul calls Senate’s bluff, kills terrorist detainee amendment

  1. #1

    Paul calls Senate’s bluff, kills terrorist detainee amendment

    This is more amazing the more I look at it. Basically they were all going to agree to the despicable Sessions Amendment so as not look "weak on defense" and as long as no one made a peep then it would just slide by unnoticed. But then Rand Paul publicized the fact that American citizens found not guilty in our justice system could still be locked up and the mostly Dem Senate shot it down with help from a few Republicans.

    If Senator Rand Paul did not exist we would literally have the Senate unanimously approving of the jailing of American citizens who were found not guilty by a jury of their peers. Bernie Sanders didn't step forward. Mike Lee didn't step forward. Even the ACLU didn't raise any concerns about it.

    I wonder how many times something like this is going to happen with Rand Paul in the Senate breaking up their little insider arrangements?
    Paul calls Senate’s bluff, kills terrorist detainee amendment
    By Josiah Ryan - 12/02/11 02:37 PM ET

    Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) on Thursday — simply by asking for a recorded vote — managed to kill an amendment that would have clarified that the military can indefinitely detain enemy combatants.

    Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.), called the amendment to the floor, explaining it ought to garner the support of all senators because it would simply “clarify” that enemy combatants acquitted of crimes in a court can still be held in military detention until they are no longer deemed a threat.

    Looking to spare vulnerable Democrats from an awkward vote on the controversial issue of extra-judicial military detention, Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin (D-Mich.), with the assent of his Republican counterpart John McCain (R-Ariz.), attempted to swiftly pass the amendment by unanimous consent.

    “I think that this can be accepted on voice vote,” Levin said, when Sessions finished presenting the amendment. “I have great problems with it, but I think there is probably a majority here that will favor it.”

    But from across the chamber, Paul demanded a recorded vote on the amendment, which resulted in a resounding 41-59 defeat.

    “I am going to ask for the yays and nays,” Paul said, surprising leaders.

    Both McCain and Levin, who indicated moments before that they would agree to passage of the measure by unanimous consent, voted against it in that roll-call vote.

    A Republican aid close to the process told The Hill on Friday that Democratic leaders including Levin had agreed to allow passage of the amendment, which they opposed, to dodge the roll-call vote, and that they had been assured by at least one high-powered Republican in the Senate Armed Services Committee that in the end it would be stripped from the final conference report.
    Roll Call vote:

    Vote Summary

    Question: On the Amendment (Sessions Amdt. No. 1274 )
    Vote Number: 217 Vote Date: December 1, 2011, 07:24 PM
    Required For Majority: 1/2 Vote Result: Amendment Rejected
    Amendment Number: S.Amdt. 1274 to S. 1867 (National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012)
    Statement of Purpose: To clarify the disposition under the law of war of persons detained by the Armed Forces of the United States pursuant to the Authorization for Use of Military Force.
    Vote Counts: YEAs 41
    NAYs 59

    Grouped By Vote Position
    YEAs ---41
    Alexander (R-TN)
    Ayotte (R-NH)
    Barrasso (R-WY)
    Blunt (R-MO)
    Boozman (R-AR)
    Burr (R-NC)
    Chambliss (R-GA)
    Coats (R-IN)
    Coburn (R-OK)
    Cochran (R-MS)
    Cornyn (R-TX)
    Crapo (R-ID)
    DeMint (R-SC)
    Enzi (R-WY)
    Graham (R-SC)
    Grassley (R-IA)
    Hatch (R-UT)
    Hoeven (R-ND)
    Hutchison (R-TX)
    Inhofe (R-OK)
    Isakson (R-GA)
    Johanns (R-NE)
    Johnson (R-WI)
    Kyl (R-AZ)
    Lieberman (ID-CT)
    Lugar (R-IN)
    Manchin (D-WV)
    McConnell (R-KY)
    Moran (R-KS)
    Murkowski (R-AK)
    Portman (R-OH)
    Pryor (D-AR)
    Risch (R-ID)
    Roberts (R-KS)
    Rubio (R-FL)
    Sessions (R-AL)
    Shelby (R-AL)
    Thune (R-SD)
    Toomey (R-PA)
    Vitter (R-LA)
    Wicker (R-MS)

    NAYs ---59
    Akaka (D-HI)
    Baucus (D-MT)
    Begich (D-AK)
    Bennet (D-CO)
    Bingaman (D-NM)
    Blumenthal (D-CT)
    Boxer (D-CA)
    Brown (D-OH)
    Brown (R-MA)
    Cantwell (D-WA)
    Cardin (D-MD)
    Carper (D-DE)
    Casey (D-PA)
    Collins (R-ME)
    Conrad (D-ND)
    Coons (D-DE)
    Corker (R-TN)
    Durbin (D-IL)
    Feinstein (D-CA)
    Franken (D-MN)
    Gillibrand (D-NY)
    Hagan (D-NC)
    Harkin (D-IA)
    Heller (R-NV)
    Inouye (D-HI)
    Johnson (D-SD)
    Kerry (D-MA)
    Kirk (R-IL)
    Klobuchar (D-MN)
    Kohl (D-WI)
    Landrieu (D-LA)
    Lautenberg (D-NJ)
    Leahy (D-VT)
    Lee (R-UT)
    Levin (D-MI)
    McCain (R-AZ)
    McCaskill (D-MO)
    Menendez (D-NJ)
    Merkley (D-OR)
    Mikulski (D-MD)
    Murray (D-WA)
    Nelson (D-FL)
    Nelson (D-NE)
    Paul (R-KY)
    Reed (D-RI)
    Reid (D-NV)
    Rockefeller (D-WV)
    Sanders (I-VT)
    Schumer (D-NY)
    Shaheen (D-NH)
    Snowe (R-ME)
    Stabenow (D-MI)
    Tester (D-MT)
    Udall (D-CO)
    Udall (D-NM)
    Warner (D-VA)
    Webb (D-VA)
    Whitehouse (D-RI)
    Wyden (D-OR)
    Last edited by Libertea Party; 12-02-2011 at 03:40 PM.
    "The president does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack...that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation." "Attack Libya UPDATE 8/13: and Syria"

    "We can track down terrorists without trampling on our civil liberties.... the federal government will only issue warrants and execute searches because it needs to, not because it can." "Need to murder UPDATE 8/13: and track citizens" ~ Barack H. Obama



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  3. #2
    Awesome!

  4. #3
    McCain voted with Rand???
    http://www.iycki.org

    Pro-life conservative Constitutionalist libertarian.


    I stand with Rand.

  5. #4
    DeMint voted YEA?

  6. #5
    I'm confused. So is this part of the bill dead? If so, why am I not hearing that on the news?

  7. #6
    Wow, the "yay"s are almost all Republicans and the "nay"s are almost all Democrats. What the hell has happened in Washington? I am registered Republican...I will not from here on out... EVER call myself a Republican.
    Last edited by No Free Beer; 12-03-2011 at 08:06 AM.
    "I am, therefore I'll think" - Ayn Rand

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by evadmurd View Post
    DeMint voted YEA?
    I caught that myself. What is up with that?
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    Thomas Paine

  9. #8
    So the NDAA/Senate Bill 1867 with its section 1031 and all that unconstitutional horse $#@! is dead-dead? Like gone? If so, then I believe we still have very solid chance as a very bright future! The Republic is here to stay!



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by realtonygoodwin View Post
    McCain voted with Rand???
    noticed the same thing?

  12. #10
    So did Rockefellar...

    I'm sorry, I don't buy it. They're going to sneak it into something else and pass it anyway.

    Maybe expand the powers of the soviet central committee/super-committee to pass it.
    Maxed out to ALL of Ron Paul's campaigns.

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  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulatized View Post
    I caught that myself. What is up with that?
    DeMint is not a defender of liberty.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Perhaps the most important lesson from Obamacare is that while liberty is lost incrementally, it cannot be regained incrementally. The federal leviathan continues its steady growth; sometimes boldly and sometimes quietly. Obamacare is just the latest example, but make no mistake: the statists are winning. So advocates of liberty must reject incremental approaches and fight boldly for bedrock principles.
    The epitome of libertarian populism

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by seraphson View Post
    So the NDAA/Senate Bill 1867 with its section 1031 and all that unconstitutional horse $#@! is dead-dead? Like gone? If so, then I believe we still have very solid chance as a very bright future! The Republic is here to stay!
    No, the bill passed 93-7. The defeat of 1274 doesn't really accomplish much, either. It doesn't kill the power to detain American citizens without charges or trial at the President's discretion.

    The Military Commissions Act of 2006 was passed, and gave the power to the Executive to indefinitely detain "enemy combatants".

    Now you don't even have to be an "enemy combatant".
    Last edited by Feeding the Abscess; 12-03-2011 at 10:58 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Perhaps the most important lesson from Obamacare is that while liberty is lost incrementally, it cannot be regained incrementally. The federal leviathan continues its steady growth; sometimes boldly and sometimes quietly. Obamacare is just the latest example, but make no mistake: the statists are winning. So advocates of liberty must reject incremental approaches and fight boldly for bedrock principles.
    The epitome of libertarian populism

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Feeding the Abscess View Post
    No, the bill passed 93-7. The defeat of 1274 doesn't really accomplish much, either. It doesn't kill the power to detain American citizens without charges or trial at the President's discretion.

    The Military Commissions Act of 2006 was passed, and gave the power to the Executive to indefinitely detain "enemy combatants".

    Now you don't even have to be an "enemy combatant".
    and the reason the president is peeved about this bill is it takes away his (the executive's) discretion to choose who to call what and who to send where. it provides a legislative "protocol" <---albeit a horrid, unconstitutional one. (but what was happening before, just as you said, was not constitutional, either).

    the war-progressives are on the move.

  16. #14
    Thanks for the link. I've posted it on kitco. There are a few neocon scumbags there who seem to slither out from under the rocks they live to critisize anything positive about Ron Paul. The same ignoramus scumbags will probably like up against Jesse too.

    I can use some help over there if any of you are so inclined

  17. #15
    Great point about Rand. Imagine if he wasnt there...

    Wait, 1031-1036 was purged from the bill? I thought his amendment to strike sections 1031-1036 was voted down hence the nays being more?

  18. #16
    Good job Rand..

    What a bunch of cowards. Pathetic.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by unknown View Post
    Great point about Rand. Imagine if he wasnt there...

    Wait, 1031-1036 was purged from the bill? I thought his amendment to strike sections 1031-1036 was voted down hence the nays being more?
    That was the Udall Amendment, is this the Sessons amendment that would have allowed detainment of acquitted "enemy combatants"

  21. #18
    Well even if defeated, it really doesn't matter, which is why it's not considered newsworthy. I mean it's awesome that Rand did this! But at the end of the day, this is something that the military is doing already, and they aren't being called on it, and probably won't ever be, so it really isn't an issue.

    Let no one say that Rand isn't a champion of liberty.

    But the defeat of that section doesn't mean the military can't detain you indefinitely, without trial. Sigh.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by realtonygoodwin View Post
    McCain voted with Rand???
    No, he did not vote "with" anyone. I suspect he voted to save his behind.
    Carole

    "Mr. Chairman, we have in this Country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve Banks, hereinafter called the Fed. The Fed has cheated the Government of these United States and the people of the United States out of enough money to pay the Nation's debt. The depredations and iniquities of the Fed has cost enough money to pay the National debt several times over. -Cong. Louis McFadden



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