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Thread: * Smedley Butler - Hero to the end *

  1. #1

    * Smedley Butler - Hero to the end *

    Smedley Butler

    - He exposed a coup d’état to overthrow United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt resulting in 1934 Butler testified to the McCormack–Dickstein Congressional committee on his claims that base on the evaluation warranted an indictment.

    But what happened after is an astonishing media blackouts (known editorial New York Times article it as a "gigantic hoax"), authorities were powerless and although the committee agreed on its merit of these allegations were credible and strong evidence. No one was prosecuted

    - (referred to as the 'Business Plot') Butler claimed that wealthy businessmen were plotting to create a fascist organisation with secret government undermining and use it in imperialistic and colonial economic monopoly, with Butler as leader of that organisation.

    - an outspoken critic of U.S. military adventurism, and most supported by the military soldiers and staff even of his being anti-war stance...

    - Wrote the book 'War is a racket'

    - originator of the ideas and campaign of war and military are for defence only and for the bill of rights


    Major General in the U.S. Marine Corps (34-year career as a Marine)


    - at the time of his death the most decorated Marine in U.S. history having 16 medals with five for heroism, the only man to be awarded the Brevet Medal and two Medals of Honor, all from separate actions

    - multiple veteran of wars, battles and combats in military actions ---Philippines, China, in Central America and the Caribbean during the Banana Wars, and France in World War I

    - being a popular military figure of the time he became influential over the veterans

    - his home has been maintained as a memorial and contains memorabilia collected during his various careers











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  3. #2
    bump
    A vote against Ron Paul is a vote for Obama

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...22#post4013522

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance...it is the illusion of knowledge." - Stephen Hawking

  4. #3
    - He exposed a coup d’état to overthrow United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt resulting in 1934 Butler testified to the McCormack–Dickstein Congressional committee on his claims that base on the evaluation warranted an indictment.

    he can be forgiven for this mistake

  5. #4
    during the deep dark days of the Great Depression...

  6. #5
    Great view on the "Banana Wars" from the inside.
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.

  7. #6
    I hear that someone on this forum is related to this "Smedley" character.
    Those who want liberty must organize as effectively as those who want tyranny. -- Iyad el Baghdadi

  8. #7

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by amy31416 View Post
    I hear that someone on this forum is related to this "Smedley" character.

    Ya, it has been six hours since this thread started. And no show to mention that. That has to be a record.
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  11. #9
    ^ iowa is slightly more than a month away... and AF is focused as are we all as to how it shapes up and plays out ^

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by cindy25 View Post
    - He exposed a coup d’état to overthrow United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt resulting in 1934 Butler testified to the McCormack–Dickstein Congressional committee on his claims that base on the evaluation warranted an indictment.

    he can be forgiven for this mistake
    Care to elaborate why this was a mistake?

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Aratus View Post
    ^ iowa is slightly more than a month away... and AF is focused as are we all as to how it shapes up and plays out ^
    Ya, that's it...

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post3796146
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  14. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Care to elaborate why this was a mistake?
    That goes without saying.

    http://www.rense.com/general30/worse.htm

    Roosevelt imposed an oil embargo on the Japanese. [TOJO DOCTRINE] Japan is of course a small island country that has no oil. The embargo was designed to bring the Japanese to their knees. Indeed, Roosevelt ordered Admiral J.O. Richardson, commander of the Pacific fleet, to impose a blockade that would have prevented Japan from using the western Pacific. Of course, this would have been war; fearing for his fleet, Admiral Richardson refused and was fired, which was just as well, because had the Japanese attacked, he would have been blamed. You will find a concise description of all this in a helpful book, The Unseen Hand by Ralph Epperson (Publius Press, Tucson, 1985)

    After many months of such provocation to which the Japanese did not respond, they finally hit Pearl Harbor on December 7th, 1941. According to the party line, the attack was a "complete surprise." We had "done nothing" to provoke it. We are mere "innocent bystanders." December 7th was a "day of infamy." Franklin Roosevelt finally had his war.

    How big a surprise was Pearl Harbor? The answer is that Roosevelt knew the attack was coming; He knew where and when it was coming; wanted it to come; encouraged it; did nothing to prevent it; kept our commanders on the scene in the dark about it; failed to warn them it was coming; did everything he could to make it as horrific as possible and then blamed our commanders for it. As he read the dispatches about the thousands of Americans killed at Pearl, the aircraft destroyed, the battleships sunk, the men entombed on the Arizona, all sacrificed in behalf of world government and the Soviet Union, the treasonous monster must have felt the intense satisfaction one feels after months of hard work pay off in success. It was Roosevelt, much more than the Japanese, who gave us the "day of infamy."

    The present status of Pearl Harbor research is revealing. The party line immediately after the attack was to conceal all this. By now, so much slime has oozed out, so many facts, so much testimony, that the treasonous monster's advocates have reversed course. Now, they admit that Roosevelt arranged Pearl Harbor, but argue that he had to do so for our own good. You see, we were too stupid to realize that we should have been in a war, so Roosevelt had to trick us into it.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    That goes without saying.
    I'm still not getting it. A bit dense I guess. He testified about what he knew to be true. When is that ever wrong?

  16. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    I'm still not getting it. A bit dense I guess. He testified about what he knew to be true. When is that ever wrong?
    He forced Japan's hand with the oil embargo and then left Pearl Harbor defenseless when his administration had intelligence that an attack was imminent. He was a traitor of the highest order and this was just some of his crimes. IMHO He's the worst president in our history. Wickard v. Filburn, price controls, gold confiscation, the dividing of Eastern Europe with Stalin, the building up of the Soviet war machine, etc. We're currently living in FDR's America. That's where the paradigm shift occurred for the worse.
    Last edited by AuH20; 12-01-2011 at 09:49 PM.

  17. #15
    Basically Smedly Butler is a true constitutionalists and libertarian. Regardless of the president (even though he was really against and have dislike for FDR), he was prepared to fight those that tries to infiltrate and do tyranny with the country. Unknown to him FDR is just another puppet of the system not as bad as today who are very much direct puppet.

    Smedly Butler was just as normal and as good as the next citizen (even far more dedicated to the country and his fellow soldiers) unaware of the real realities to what we can see now due to our mass technology and communications at almost everyone's hands. But then again that was 1934 having no information readily accessible and very much controlled even for military.

    Only in his later life was he able to put together and made an understanding when things were available to him. Realisation of the incestuous embedded interrelation of globalise corporations / super rich wealthy established people / government officials and politicians as all seems to unite collectively against the best interest of America but rather for their interest - that everything America has, is for the taking. And to fully ensure that they become the ruling class they have to install and transform America into a corporatism and fascism country.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    He forced Japan's hand with the oil embargo and then left Pearl Harbor defenseless when his administration had intelligence that an attack was imminent. He was a traitor of the highest order and this was just some of his crimes. IMHO He's the worst president in our history. Wickard v. Filburn, price controls, gold confiscation, the dividing of Eastern Europe with Stalin, the building up of the Soviet war machine, etc. We're currently living in FDR's America. That's where the paradigm shift occurred for the worse.
    But still how does this pertain to Butler? Should he just have ignored his beliefs? He did what he felt was right. WTF? I'm still not understanding the position, that I pesume means, keep your mouth shut and subscribe for the lesser of two evils.



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  20. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    But still how does this pertain to Butler? Should he just have ignored his beliefs? He did what he felt was right. WTF? I'm still not understanding the position, that I pesume means, keep your mouth shut and subscribe for the lesser of two evils.
    Yes, turn your head and let them kill the monster. Then again, at the time he may not have had an inkling that FDR was an utter scumbag. Hell, Butler was an ardent supporter of FDR!!!!
    Last edited by AuH20; 12-02-2011 at 10:55 AM.

  21. #18
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    The more I delve into the life of Smedley Butler the more depressed I get. Butler loved the New Deal and opposed those who were attempting to defend the Constitution. e.g the American Liberty League:


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Liberty_League

    The League said in its founding statement that it was a "nonpartisan organization founded to defend the Constitution and defend the rights and liberties guaranteed by that Constitution."[9] It eschewed participation in elections. Its stated goal was:[10]

    to teach the necessity of respect for the rights of persons and property as fundamental to every form of government...to teach the duty of government, to encourage and protect individual and group initiative and enterprise, to foster the right to work, earn, save and acquire property, and to preserve the ownership and lawful use of property when acquired.
    The League came under heavy attack from the Left. In 1934 General Smedley Butler, a speaker who denounced bankers, said the League was plotting to overthrow the government and wanted Butler to lead the coup. No evidence of him having contact with the League was presented.[15]
    Last edited by AuH20; 12-02-2011 at 11:03 AM.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    The more I delve into the life of Smedley Butler the more depressed I get. Butler loved the New Deal and opposed those who were attempting to defend the Constitution. e.g the American Liberty League:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Liberty_League
    It is honorable to not participate in a coup d'état, and it is not at all convincing that America would have been better off with an unelected fascist regime rather than an elected one. Just like the "Patriot Act" is not patriotic ... "The American Liberty League" wasn't interested in liberty in America. I commend General Smedley Butler for his principled stand, and I am grateful for his insightful book, "War Is A Racket."

    In 1933, Retired Marine Corps Major General Smedley Butler was approached by wealthy industrialists and bankers who were plotting to create a fascist veterans' organization called the "American Liberty League" and use it in a coup d'état to overthrow United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt, with Butler as leader of that organization. In 1934 Butler testified to the McCormack--Dickstein Congressional committee on these claims. In the opinion of the committee, these allegations were credible.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTdx6vEUtIA
    "Everyone who believes in freedom must work diligently for sound money, fully redeemable. Nothing else is compatible with the humanitarian goals of peace and prosperity." -- Ron Paul

    Brother Jonathan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post
    It is honorable to not participate in a coup d'état, and it is not at all convincing that America would have been better off with an unelected fascist regime rather than an elected one. Just like the "Patriot Act" is not patriotic ... "The American Liberty League" wasn't interested in liberty in America. I commend General Smedley Butler for his principled stand, and I am grateful for his insightful book, "War Is A Racket."




    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTdx6vEUtIA
    Who's to say Smedley Butler wasn't used by the TPTB and Roosevelt to garner public sympathy for their controversial and nation altering movement? I'm not saying Butler was a bad man but he may have been deceived.
    Last edited by AuH20; 12-02-2011 at 01:00 PM.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Who's to say Smedley Butler wasn't used by the TPTB and Roosevelt to garner sympathy for their cause? I'm not saying Butler was a bad man but he may have been deceived.
    Butler himself, "In 1934 Butler testified to the McCormack--Dickstein Congressional committee on these claims."

    What was his alternative?
    "Everyone who believes in freedom must work diligently for sound money, fully redeemable. Nothing else is compatible with the humanitarian goals of peace and prosperity." -- Ron Paul

    Brother Jonathan

  25. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post
    Butler himself, "In 1934 Butler testified to the McCormack--Dickstein Congressional committee on these claims."

    What was his alternative?
    Does the following pass the smell test to you? Read the bold type closely. Not only were they going to overthrow the presidency, but they were going to re-implement that wicked gold standard. Damn fascists!! Either Butler was a Keynesian, double-agent or one of the most gullible military commanders to ever live:

    http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHART...ml?q=coup.html

    Butler testified that bond trader Gerald MacGuire had approached him in the
    summer of 1933. MacGuire claimed to represent wealthy Wall Street broker
    Grayson Murphy, Singer sewing machine heir Robert Sterling Clark, and other
    unnamed men of wealth.They asked Butler to speak publicly on behalf of the
    gold standard, recently abandoned by President Roosevelt. MacGuire's
    rationale for why Butler should ally himself with the gold standard cause
    was that the veterans of World War I were due a bonus in 1945. As MacGuire
    told Butler, "We want to see the soldiers' bonus paid in gold. We do not
    want the soldier to have rubber money or paper money."


    It appears that the plotters underestimated Butler's intelligence and
    character. When this explanation failed to persuade Butler, MacGuire and
    Clark offered him money, abandoning any pretense of civic-mindness. Butler's
    sense of honor prevented him from speaking in favor of any policy for
    mercenary reasons.

    MacGuire eventually told Butler their real goal. MacGuire asked Butler to
    lead an army of 500,000 veterans in a march on Washington, D.C. The stated
    mission was to protect Roosevelt from other plotters, and install a
    "secretary of general welfare" to "take all the worries and details off of
    his shoulders." But Butler saw through their supposed concern for Roosevelt.
    He testified before Congress that he told MacGuire:

    [M]y interest is, my one hobby is, maintaining a democracy. If you get these
    500,000 soldiers advocating anything smelling of Fascism, I am going to get
    500,000 more and lick the hell out of you, and we will have a real war right
    at home..

    Yes; and then you will put somebody in there you can run; is that the idea?
    The President will go around and christen babies and dedicate bridges, and
    kiss children. Mr. Roosevelt will never agree to that himself.

    Butler eventually deduced that the real goal was a coup d'état to take
    Roosevelt captive, and force reinstatement of the gold standard, the loss of
    which many wealthy Americans feared would lead to rapid inflation.
    The
    plotters would keep Roosevelt as a figurehead until he could be "encouraged"
    to retire.
    And it's very revealing that Butler stressed he was protecting a "democracy" as opposed to a democratic "republic."
    Last edited by AuH20; 12-02-2011 at 01:12 PM.

  26. #23
    I am not sure either one of us has the truth on this attempted coup d'état. Yet, military coup d'état' is rarely what they seem. Chile's General Pinochet comes to mind.

    This is what I respect about General Smedley Butler. From the article you posted,
    "Butler's sense of honor prevented him from speaking in favor of any policy for mercenary reasons."
    And if he EVENTUALLY came to that conclusion, then that testifies to the fact that he acted out of principled duty and honor rather than hasty decision making against his better judgement.

    The proven record of Prescott Bush's involvement in financing the Nazi war machine dovetails with the fact that he was part of a criminal cabal that actively sought to impose a fascist coup in America.

    President George Walker Bush's grandfather (Prescott Bush) and great grandfather (George Herbert Walker) were among Wall Street's ultra-right wing elite. Before WWII, they were among the key players who coordinated the flow of investments from American multimillionaires into Germany. They profited by helping to coordinate the American financing behind Hitler's rise to power. During the war, they even profited from companies that armed the Nazi war machine and used slave labour at Auschwitz. Then, after the war, Prescott Bush was instrumental in helping to launder Nazi loot for Fritz Thyssen, who was one Hitler's earliest and richest industrialist backers.
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    And it's very revealing that Butler stressed he was protecting a "democracy" as opposed to a democratic "republic."
    Not really, Alexis de Tocqueville referred to Democracy in America several years before General Butler's time.
    "Everyone who believes in freedom must work diligently for sound money, fully redeemable. Nothing else is compatible with the humanitarian goals of peace and prosperity." -- Ron Paul

    Brother Jonathan

  27. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travlyr View Post
    I am not sure either one of us has the truth on this attempted coup d'état. Yet, military coup d'état' is rarely what they seem. Chile's General Pinochet comes to mind.

    This is what I respect about General Smedley Butler. From the article you posted,


    And if he EVENTUALLY came to that conclusion, then that testifies to the fact that he acted out of principled duty and honor rather than hasty decision making against his better judgement.



    Not really, Alexis de Tocqueville referred to Democracy in America several years before General Butler's time.
    Yes, given our current time, we'll never find out the truth. With that said, I appreciate Butler's honesty in outlining the raping of Central and South America by powerful interests. However, his detailed account of the FDR coup leaves me skeptical of what was actually transpiring.



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  29. #25
    It seems to me the bankers Butler was worried about taking over, had already taken over years ago. Was the American Liberty League any better than who was already in power? They did advocate a return to the gold standard... but I guess will never know.

    If Butler was alive today and able to see what his country had become would he still make the same choice?

  30. #26
    was this plot an attempt to turn the clock back to grover cleveland or a clever attempt to empty fort knox before the $20 dollar gold piece becomes bars and history?

  31. #27

    Cool

    smedley did not lie.
    the plot was real.
    he is not titus oates.
    fdr had friends + foes.
    the 1932/33 transistion
    was tense, and we have
    a dead chicago mayor
    named cermak in FL.
    there was a nebulous
    group not tracked down
    and the curious fire in
    germany and events
    on the march, always
    in the 1930s as WW2
    looms, factoid abundant.
    Last edited by Aratus; 12-02-2011 at 03:06 PM.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Care to elaborate why this was a mistake?
    cindy25 made a sardonic quip. my grandfather had also testified during the early new deal
    before a committee looking into air mail contracts and this would dog his life until his dying
    day despite his close personal friendship with juan trippe of pan am. goto senator hugo black.

  33. #29
    [M]y interest is, my one hobby is, maintaining a democracy. If you get these
    500,000 soldiers advocating anything smelling of Fascism, I am going to get
    500,000 more and lick the hell out of you, and we will have a real war right
    at home..
    I asked my grandfather about this, specifically.

    According to him, Butler said that his whole purpose was to maintain, like he said "democracy".

    His words were something to the effect that: "That is not the way we do things in this country."

    I couldn't really get a read from him, on whether he truly supported FDR.

    But that's not the first contradiction in terms with this, I'm coming to find, increasingly complex, man.

    Look at what he did in Philly.

    Director of Public Safety

    At the urging of Butler's father, in 1924, the newly elected mayor of Philadelphia W. Freeland Kendrick asked him to leave the Marines to become the Director of Public Safety, the official in charge of running the city's police and fire departments. Philadelphia's municipal government was notoriously corrupt and Butler initially refused. Kendrick asked President Calvin Coolidge to intervene. Coolidge contacted Butler and authorized him to take the necessary leave from the Corps. At the request of the President, Butler served in the post from January 1924 until December 1925.[3] He began his new job by assembling all 4,000 of the city police into the Metropolitan Opera House in shifts to introduce himself and inform them that things would change while he was in charge. He replaced corrupt police officers and, in some cases, switched entire units from one part of the city to another, undermining local protection rackets and profiteering.[32][33]

    Within 48 hours of taking over, Butler organized raids on more than 900 speakeasies, ordering them padlocked and, in many cases, destroyed. In addition to raiding the speakeasies, he also attempted to eliminate other illegal activities: bootlegging, prostitution, gambling and police corruption. More zealous than he was political, he ordered crackdowns on the social elite's favorite hangouts, such as the Ritz-Carlton and the Union League, as well as on drinking establishments that served the working class.[34] Although he was effective in reducing crime and police corruption, he was a controversial leader. In one instance he made a statement that he would promote the first officer to kill a bandit and stated, "I don't believe there is a single bandit notch on a policeman's guns [sic] in this city, go out and get some."[32] Although many of the local citizens and police felt that the raids were just a show, the raids continued for several weeks.[33]

    He implemented programs to improve city safety and security. He established policies and guidelines of administration, and developed a Philadelphia police uniform that resembled that of the Marine Corps.[35] Other changes included military-style checkpoints into the city, bandit chasing squads armed with sawed-off shotguns, and armored police cars.[35] The press began reporting on the good and the bad aspects of Butler's personal war on crime. The reports praised the new uniforms, the new programs and the reductions in crime but they also reflected the public's negative opinion of their new Public Safety director. Many felt that he was being too aggressive in his tactics and resented the reductions in their civil rights, such as the stopping of citizens at the city checkpoints.

    Butler frequently swore in his radio addresses, causing many citizens to suggest his behavior, particularly his language, was inappropriate for someone of his rank and stature.[36] (Gee, where have I heard that before? - AF)

    Some even suggested Butler acted like a military dictator, even charging that he inappropriately used active-duty Marines in some of his raids.[36] Major R. A. Haynes, the federal Prohibition commissioner, visited the city in 1924, six months after Butler was appointed. He announced that "great progress"[37] had been made in the city and attributed that success to Butler.[37]

    Eventually Butler's leadership style and the directness of actions undermined his support within the community. His departure seemed imminent. Mayor Kendrick reported to the press, "I had the guts to bring General Butler to Philadelphia and I have the guts to fire him."[38] Feeling that his duties in Philadelphia were coming to an end, Butler contacted General Lejeune to prepare for his return to the Marine Corps. Not all of the city felt he was doing a bad job though and when the news started to break that he would be leaving, people began to gather at the Academy of Music. A group of 4,000 supporters assembled and negotiated a truce between him and the mayor to keep him in Philadelphia for a while longer, and the President authorized a one year extension for him.[39]

    His second year focused on executing arrest warrants, cracking down on crooked police and enforcing prohibition. On January 1, 1926, his leave from the Marine Corps ended and the President declined a request for a third extension. Butler received orders to report to San Diego and he prepared his family and his belongings for the new assignment.[40] In light of his pending departure, Butler began to defy the Mayor and other key city officials. On the eve of his departure, he had an article printed in the paper stating his intention to stay and "finish the job".[41] The mayor was surprised and furious when he read the press release the next morning and demanded his resignation.[41] After almost two years in office, Butler resigned under pressure, stating later that "cleaning up Philadelphia was worse than any battle I was ever in."[34]
    For the Marines at RPF.

    Butler with three other Marine Corps legends.

    From the left: John Quick, Wendall Neville, John LeJeune and S.D. Butler.

    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 12-02-2011 at 03:25 PM.

  34. #30
    my grandfather the WWI vet saw the bonus army up front
    get hosed down by macarthur's men on hoover's orders even
    though he was not as down and out as they. as i said, he had
    known juan trippe of pan am and never cut his ties with him.
    the turmoil now is not quite as bad as was 1930 to 1934...
    Last edited by Aratus; 12-02-2011 at 03:21 PM. Reason: my grandfather was in the army air corp in WWI

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