Except when 'we the people' take back the power. That is what happened in Iceland. You'll be watching more countries rolling out debt voiding in the next few months.Originally Posted by Icymudpuppy
Except when 'we the people' take back the power. That is what happened in Iceland. You'll be watching more countries rolling out debt voiding in the next few months.
Possible! Socialism is very popular!
There is enormous inertia a tyranny of the status quo in private and especially governmental arrangements. Only a crisis actual or perceived produces real change. When that crisis occurs, the actions that are taken depend on the ideas that are lying around. That, I believe, is our basic function: to develop alternatives to existing policies, to keep them alive and available until the politically impossible becomes politically inevitable
- Milton Friedman
This is not a free market works and this is not how economics works. So, we decide to just "forgive" all debt and then what happens when the deficit runs up again?
I'll confess to copying someone else with this reply because it fits here so well.
You say any mortgage debt forgiveness is socialism, yet you refuse to consider what mortgages are today versus what mortgages were in years past.
Keep arguing for the bankers Nothing, you're doing a great job!1) Why did "investment banks" seek deregulation? Answer-because mortgages had been turned into "securities" rather than a contract between an individual borrower and bank.
2) For what purpose did unregulated banks want more and more "securitized mortgages"? What did they actually DO with them? Answer-they used these as "securities".
3) What do banks do with securities? Answer-they use them as collateral to borrow against, invest, drive markets.
4) What's wrong with this? Answer-they don't care about truth in lending=loan status of borrower
5) Why wouldn't they care? Answer-first they didn't register title-deed, or insure, or pay taxes on; rather invented, then used MERS="mortgage electronic registry service".
6) But then these "registrations" are illegal? Answer-yes. They were quite temporary, as they moved to other hands after 2 more illegal stages. Also, noone paid state taxes, or registration fees, costing states-counties millions in taxes.
7) MERS contains no assets-it will do no good to sue them for damages to customers.
8) How big a problem is this? Answer-studies by entire counties show 90% of mortgages were handled through MERS.
9) Where did mortgages go next? Answer-they were sent to offshore subsidiaries, to be broken up (to hide actual value), called "tranches". Then pieces were put together with credit card, student loan, car loan debt, etc.
10) What good did this do banks? Answer-banks had rating agencies they paid, rate what are now called "mortgage backed securities" (MBS) "AAA", or "AA", then sold these off to pension funds, investment groups, fanni-mae or freddi-mac, etc.
11) So what is the real value of MBS? Answer-banks are not required to release these figures, as republican legislation disallowed audits. Also, MBS were held on separate set of books.
12) So what is being done with them today? Answer-3 years after banks figured out they held too much bad MBS debt, they are holding them, letting out a little at a time, to not flood the market and run down their value...economists say it is likely to take another 15 quarters minimum, to release most.
13) Where are the title-deeds then? Answer-banks are being threatened in many states with foreclosure fraud over illegally foreclosing without title-deed. But each state has different regulations. Washington State agrees to "hold harmless" if people walk away from underwater loans. This is because banks do not hold title-deed.
14) What are banks doing with these properties? Answer-they are selling off for as much as possible as fast as they can, while not flooding market to destroy "value". In essence, they are fraudulently selling, on basis they don't need to supply title-deed till 30 years later.
15) the basis of U.S. society is private property-the basis of private property is legal ownership...
Read more: http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2012/a...#ixzz1sE43sqc7
Ron Paul: He irritates more idiots in fewer words than any American politician ever.
NO MORE LIARS! Ron Paul 2012
I think forgiving all debt would be a great way to restart the economy
does this tinfoil hat make my ass look too big?Catfish Sez
The "debt" hurts the SAVERS much more than it hurts bankers; all those who didn't make stupid decisions & didn't go in debt will experience a much lower living-standard at the expense of the borrowers, who get free stuff at the expense of the SAVERS
Again, you've little understanding of how economics works or where the capital comes from to produce goods/services so obviously you'd argue for freelaoding but savers are unnecessarily punished as their purchasing-power STOLEN by borrowers & bankers
Of course, for the freeloaders it would be but what about those who saved & saw their purchasing-power dwindle beacuse of the stupid borrowers & bankers?
But I guess freeloaders don't care so long as they get to benefit at the expense of the savers
There is enormous inertia a tyranny of the status quo in private and especially governmental arrangements. Only a crisis actual or perceived produces real change. When that crisis occurs, the actions that are taken depend on the ideas that are lying around. That, I believe, is our basic function: to develop alternatives to existing policies, to keep them alive and available until the politically impossible becomes politically inevitable
- Milton Friedman
What are the savers saving? Paper? Electronic digits acquired through privilege?
periodic debt forgiveness is required in the Old Testament - it's called "Jubilee"
funny how those primitive, ignorant goat-herders got so much so precisely correct, you'd almost think they were divinely inspired
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
- SAMUEL ADAMS
Nice to see you still at it.
Please continue to tell us this story about these mythical 'borrowers' and 'savers', they are good entertainment.
Please continue to belittle those with whom you are conversing when you are unable to refute their comments.
It's good to see the establishments side of the story.
Ron Paul: He irritates more idiots in fewer words than any American politician ever.
NO MORE LIARS! Ron Paul 2012
As far as I can tell it is some sort of karma based system, maybe like the rep bars we have here.
Savers get to feel good that they are leaving their money at zero interest in the hands of those who are robbing them blind and they get to blame the borrowers for all their problems since the borrowers are getting free stuff because the savers would rather not buy stuff and the bankers just get to keep everything anyway so shut up and stop arguing that anything be done about the system because if you do you are hurting the savers.
At least that's what I get out of Nothings comments.
Ron Paul: He irritates more idiots in fewer words than any American politician ever.
NO MORE LIARS! Ron Paul 2012
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