89 seconds. Will they be seconds that go down in history that changed everything?

[klamath]

I know it was the most effective 89 seconds of the campaign. 'If they are a threat go to congress declare war go in, get it done and GETOUT!" Will that be RP's, Reagan 'Are you better off today?" line? That is what strong defense conservatives like to hear.
The poll numbers are reflecting this.

[wgadget]

I know it was the most effective 89 seconds of the campaign. 'If they are a threat go to congress declare war go in, get it done and GETOUT!" That is what strong defense conservatives like to hear.
The poll numbers are reflecting this.

Playing devil's advocate here...So, my husband and I were having this discussion the other day, and he says, "Well, what if there's AN EMERGENCY? Are we gonna sit around and wait for Congress to decide to go to war?"

In response, I said, "Well, what if Obama (or Cain or GODKNOWSWHO) decides that everyone with Ron Paul bumper stickers is a terrorist and should be bombed, and he doesn't need to consult Congress?"

[specsaregood]

Playing devil's advocate here...So, my husband and I were having this discussion the other day, and he says, "Well, what if there's AN EMERGENCY? Are we gonna sit around and wait for Congress to decide to go to war?"

You don't have to declare war to defend yourself. Only to attack would be my interpretation.

[Krugerrand]

You don't have to declare war to defend yourself. Only to attack would be my interpretation.

While one can question the constitutionality of the War Powers Act, it does authorize the President to use the military defensively in an emergency.

[KingNothing]

Playing devil's advocate here...So, my husband and I were having this discussion the other day, and he says, "Well, what if there's AN EMERGENCY? Are we gonna sit around and wait for Congress to decide to go to war?"

In response, I said, "Well, what if Obama (or Cain or GODKNOWSWHO) decides that everyone with Ron Paul bumper stickers is a terrorist and should be bombed, and he doesn't need to consult Congress?"

Ron has addressed that in the past, I believe. During the last campaign I remember it coming up in a debate. He said that in an emergency he would act to defend America, but that absent an exigent threat military action can only take place with a Congressional declaration.

[KingNothing]

I know it was the most effective 89 seconds of the campaign. 'If they are a threat go to congress declare war go in, get it done and GETOUT!" Will that be RP's, Reagan 'Are you better off today?" line? That is what strong defense conservatives like to hear.
The poll numbers are reflecting this.

It was a VERY powerful line and I hope the campaign continues to press that theme and use those words. There is absolutely nothing weak about his position.

[TonySutton]

Playing devil's advocate here...So, my husband and I were having this discussion the other day, and he says, "Well, what if there's AN EMERGENCY? Are we gonna sit around and wait for Congress to decide to go to war?"

In response, I said, "Well, what if Obama (or Cain or GODKNOWSWHO) decides that everyone with Ron Paul bumper stickers is a terrorist and should be bombed, and he doesn't need to consult Congress?"

The military at Pearl Harbor defended themselves when attacked by the Japanese. Less than 48 hours later Congress declared war on Japan but the US Military already had orders to be vigilant and to defend themselves accordingly. Congress can declare war faster than we can get enough troops in theater to effectively attack an enemy.

[seapilot]

You don't have to declare war to defend yourself. Only to attack would be my interpretation.

This is correct, the same reason the president used to have a red phone in case the USSR attacked with nukes first. By the time the congress would declare war there would not be a Capital to declare war in.

Edit: The red phone was for direct Soviet US in an emergency not communication not to US military.

[klamath]

This is correct, the same reason the president used to have a red phone in case the USSR attacked with nukes first. By the time the congress would declare war there would not be a Capital to declare war in.

Edit: The red phone was for direct Soviet US in an emergency not communication not to US military.

Yeaw the suitcase chained to the quiet aid that followed the president everywhere was the immediate defence plan, but it was only a deterence defense called MAD.

[Omnica]

The military at Pearl Harbor defended themselves when attacked by the Japanese. Less than 48 hours later Congress declared war on Japan but the US Military already had orders to be vigilant and to defend themselves accordingly. Congress can declare war faster than we can get enough troops in theater to effectively attack an enemy.

Pearl Harbor, like the Lusitania, Maine, and 911, were all false flag attacks designed to garner public support for war

[cpike]

Pearl Harbor, like the Lusitania, Maine, and 911, were all false flag attacks designed to garner public support for war

Are you suggesting that the United States is the only nation to attack another? I fail to see how this is relevant to this discussion, and certainly won't help get Ron Paul elected.

[acptulsa]

Are you suggesting that the United States is the only nation to attack another? I fail to see how this is relevant to this discussion, and certainly won't help get Ron Paul elected.

It is also certainly not the opinion of every amateur historian on this board.

The Maine sustained documented damage consistent with an internal coal bunker fire causing a magazine explosion. The only two things that really could have caused that are sabotage/negligence or spontaneous combustion, which was not unheard of in coal bunkers. This would make it a likely accident, not a false flag operation. Did William Randolph Hearst and other yellow journalists exploit it in the way a false flag operation would be exploited? Yes. But that doesn't make it a false flag operation.

Did British authorities keep the Lusitania out of port hoping the Germans would torpedo her and this would piss off the Americans enough to jump into the war? That would, in my opinion, be giving the British too much credit for foresight. I don't think it was a given. Did we purposely undermine the defense of Pearl? I find it more convincing that we seriously underestimated the Japanese, myself. But in any case, neither was a false flag operation because the Germans certainly did torpedo the one, and the Japanese certainly did attack the other.

So, there's two that definitely do not fit the definition of false flag operation under any circumstance, and one that is highly debatable. As for the fourth, well, I do hope our questions about it get answered someday...

[Todd]

The military at Pearl Harbor defended themselves when attacked by the Japanese. Less than 48 hours later Congress declared war on Japan but the US Military already had orders to be vigilant and to defend themselves accordingly. Congress can declare war faster than we can get enough troops in theater to effectively attack an enemy.

That is an awesome post.

[Omnica]

Are you suggesting that the United States is the only nation to attack another? I fail to see how this is relevant to this discussion, and certainly won't help get Ron Paul elected.

No, i am suggesting the US has been controlled from within by the same forces who own the media.
These forces use the United States army as they please.

[John F Kennedy III]

Pearl Harbor, like the Lusitania, Maine, and 911, were all false flag attacks designed to garner public support for war

Bingo.

+rep

[Omnica]

The uSA would benefit from a more careful analysis before rushing to war.

The war on Iraq and Afghanistan have cost us trillions of dollars, and they had naught to do with 911.

[Krugerrand]

It is also certainly not the opinion of every amateur historian on this board.

The Maine sustained documented damage consistent with an internal coal bunker fire causing a magazine explosion. The only two things that really could have caused that are sabotage/negligence or spontaneous combustion, which was not unheard of in coal bunkers. This would make it a likely accident, not a false flag operation. Did William Randolph Hearst and other yellow journalists exploit it in the way a false flag operation would be exploited? Yes. But that doesn't make it a false flag operation.

Did British authorities keep the Lusitania out of port hoping the Germans would torpedo her and this would piss off the Americans enough to jump into the war? That would, in my opinion, be giving the British too much credit for foresight. I don't think it was a given. Did we purposely undermine the defense of Pearl? I find it more convincing that we seriously underestimated the Japanese, myself. But in any case, neither was a false flag operation because the Germans certainly did torpedo the one, and the Japanese certainly did attack the other.

So, there's two that definitely do not fit the definition of false flag operation under any circumstance, and one that is highly debatable. As for the fourth, well, I do hope our questions about it get answered someday...

The Lusitania was a passenger ship loaded with ammunition. The Germans warned people not to go on the ship for they intended to attack it.

The US government and connected media hyped it up as an surprise attack on civilians. That boat was acting as a military vessel and deserved to be attacked as such in a time of war.

http://www.english.emory.edu/LostPoe...niapapers.html
Germany, U-Boats and the Lusitania

In 1909, an international law was agreed upon that differentiated between "contraband" and "non-contraband" shipping. "Contraband," defined as weapons and other materials used in military manufacturing, could be controlled and blockaded during a war. "Non-contraband" cargoes like food, cloth, and raw goods could not be regulated through a blockade; countries could still import and trade these items. This regulation was a response by continental Europe against England, which had the most powerful navy and could strangle the economy of any continental nation with a blockade of the sea.

In 1915, England, in support of France, blockaded Germany, disregarding the regulation. The United States still believed in the difference between contraband and raw goods and supported Germany's right to receive the imports that it needed to survive. The United States reversed its position when it entered the war against Germany, and international law was changed. In response to the British blockade, the Germans tried to blockade England. Their most effective weapon was the submarine, which although still primitive, took the British by surprise. In 1915 the Germans declared British waters a war zone. All Allied ships in those waters would be torpedoed ( true enough, because captains of German submarines couldn't distinguish one type of ship from another, anyway).

Ironically, the U-boat was originally intended as a defensive craft. It was only mobilized offensively in response to the British blockade. The first expression of the German U-boat's offensive power was the sinking of the Lusitania in May, 1915. The Germans had placed numerous newspaper ads warning Americans not to travel aboard the Lusitania, which was carrying munitions but masquerading as an ocean liner. Americans still believed in their right, as members of a neutral nation, to travel unharmed. Of the 1,153 passengers on the Lusitania, 118 Americans died; President Wilson therefore warned the Germans that another aggressive act would provoke the United States to war. This warning inhibited the German Navy for almost two years, until the German Navy ceased to consider the United States an immediate threat. The German Navy began to claim that, with unrestricted submarine warfare, they could force the British to surrender in six months. The experts calculated that it would take the United States at least a year to mobilize, and by that time, the British surrender would be complete. The Germans were willing to risk American intervention because they were confident they could secure Britain. The German plan seemed to be an early success; however, with the intervention of America's strong navy and the implementation of the convoy (a group of cargo-ships protected by a large number of warships) the United States neutralized the German U-boat. Germany had gambled and lost.

[A note: Life aboard a German U-boat was not pleasant. Military and personnel problems were the norm. The first U-boats were visible during the day and night, because their engines produced thick white smoke and sparks visible at the surface. After the switch to diesel engines, the smoke and sparks were eliminated, but the smell on board was unbearable. Some submarines had no flush-toilets; you pumped them by hand. The bubbles from pumping out the head were visible on the surface, so waste disposal was kept to a minimum, and the stench of human waste was overpowering.]

Sources and further reading:

Compton-Hall, Richard. Submarines and the War at Sea. London: Macmillan, 1991.
Palmer, R.R., & Joel Colton. A History of the Modern World. New York: McGraw-Hill Publishing Company, 1984.
Tarrant, V.E. The U-Boat Offensive. Annapolis, MD: Naval Institute Press, 1989.

[Todd]

Pearl Harbor, like the Lusitania, Maine, and 911, were all false flag attacks designed to garner public support for war

A false flag attack would more resemble the Nazis dressing up as Poles at the border in 1939. Regardless the belief that the Japanese were probably egged on into attacking us by our Foreign policy in the Pacific.....there was no covert operation by another entity. It was Japanese Navy and pilots in the air on order of their government. Terrible example in my opinion. I hear you on the Lusitania and 911.

[Omnica]

one could also use the term, "war-facilitating media psyop," to describe those 4 historical events.

Id say the 89 seconds that changed everything was Dr. Paul deciding to run for public office, on the day that the banker's pawn Nixon closed the gold window August 15, 1971.

[Omnica]

A false flag attack would more resemble the Nazis dressing up as Poles at the border in 1939. Regardless the belief that the Japanese were probably egged on into attacking us by our Foreign policy in the Pacific.....there was no covert operation by another entity. It was Japanese Navy and pilots in the air on order of their government. Terrible example in my opinion. I hear you on the Lusitania and 911.

The nazis, who were funded by the international banksters that own the media, who control both sides in wars to hedge their bets,
were reacting to anti-German pogroms
in Poland in the Danzig corridor in 1939.
The communists in Poland, also funded by international bankers like Jacob Schiff,
Were being used to bait Germany into a war by killing Germans and stealing their territory.

Roosevelt knew a day in advance of the impending attack, and left his countryman exposed on purpose to trigger the war.

[Todd]

The nazis, who were funded by the international banksters that own the media, who control both sides in wars to hedge their bets,
were reacting to anti-German pogroms
in Poland in the Danzig corridor in 1939.
The communists in Poland, also funded by international bankers like Jacob Schiff,
Were being used to bait Germany into a war by killing Germans and stealing their territory.

Roosevelt knew a day in advance of the impending attack, and left his countryman exposed on purpose to trigger the war.

Ok..agree with that analysis. Just not my understanding of a false flag.

[John F Kennedy III]

A false flag attack would more resemble the Nazis dressing up as Poles at the border in 1939. Regardless the belief that the Japanese were probably egged on into attacking us by our Foreign policy in the Pacific.....there was no covert operation by another entity. It was Japanese Navy and pilots in the air on order of their government. Terrible example in my opinion. I hear you on the Lusitania and 911.

From memory the reason I say Pearl Harbor was a false flag is that we had plenty of warning ahead of time. Thousands of messages were intercepted and ignored. Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen. Why?

[acptulsa]

one could also use the term, "war-facilitating media psyop," to describe those 4 historical events.

One could much more readily use that term than 'false flag event'. Much more.

Id say the 89 seconds that changed everything was Dr. Paul deciding to run for public office, on the day that the banker's pawn Nixon closed the gold window August 15, 1971.

You do like to get to the root of things, don't you? Well, I certainly can't say I disapprove of that, or of the moment in history you're referring to.

[Omnica]

One could much more readily use that term than 'false flag event'. Much more.
You do like to get to the root of things, don't you? Well, I certainly can't say I disapprove of that, or of the moment in history you're referring to.

Danke! I think of myself as an intellectual ferret.

Btw your post count is impressive!