Alleged Cain Sexual Harrassment Story Gets Upgraded To Criminal Sexual Abuse

[Agorism]

Alleged Herman Cain Sexual Harrassment Story Gets Upgraded To Criminal Sexual Abuse


Link to article

Instead of going into the offices, he suddenly reached over and he put his hand on my leg under my skirt and reached for my genitals. He also grabbed my head and brought it toward his crotch. I was very, very surprised and very shocked. I said, what are you doing? You know I have a boyfriend. This isn’t what I came here for. Mr. Cain said, you want a job, right?

These allegations also up the ante considerably for the many, many Republicans who raced to defend Cain last week by denying that sexual harassment is even a real problem. (They are wrong. One in 10 women in the workplace will at some point be “promised promotion or better treatment if they [are] ‘sexually cooperative’” with a co-worker or supervisor.) Yet even the GOP’s most rabid deniers of sexism will have a tough time arguing that there is nothing wrong with grabbing a person’s genitals against their will or trying to physically push them to perform oral sex on you.

[notsure]

Statute of limitations??

[notsure]

Cain’s alleged actions occurred in the District of Columbia, where the law provides that “[w]hoever engages in a sexual act or sexual contact with another person and who should have knowledge or reason to know that the act was committed without that other person’s permission, shall be imprisoned for not more than 180 days and, in addition, may be fined in an amount not to exceed $1,000.”

That's pretty cheap for rape.
I assume a civil case could also be made. ?

[milo10]

That's pretty cheap for rape.
I assume a civil case could also be made. ?

Rape?! Total bs. You guys keep blowing this up and you simply make yourselves look bad. Cain's comment about her wanting the job was totally sleazy and manipulative and speaks poorly of him, but that is not rape.

Let this run its course and stick to your principles. If your personal view of male-female relationships is shaped by cultural Marxism, then whatever, but the application of that law to what Cain did is hardly consistent with how libertarians normally view the world. We're looking to elect Ron Paul, not Andrea Dworkin.

[rambone]

Yes, please tread very lightly when calling these shenanigans criminal behavior.

[coffeewithchess]

Rape?! Total bs. You guys keep blowing this up and you simply make yourselves look bad. Cain's comment about her wanting the job was totally sleazy and manipulative and speaks poorly of him, but that is not rape.

Let this run its course and stick to your principles. If your personal view of male-female relationships is shaped by cultural Marxism, then whatever, but the application of that law to what Cain did is hardly consistent with how libertarians normally view the world. We're looking to elect Ron Paul, not Andrea Dworkin.

I don't think rape was meant for this case, but just saying that is a light sentence if someone is raped. Maybe we're looking at it differently?

[Tod]

Yes, please tread very lightly when calling these shenanigans criminal behavior.

The guy on CNN said that her description was of a sexual assault.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/g/gro...al-imposition/

It doesn't reach the level of the link's definition because he didn't finish what he started to do; he stopped when she told him to.

[moderate libertarian]

Upgrade as in he allegedly "upgraded" hotel room of Sharon Bialek on his own.

Could Herman Cain go to prison for this?

[milo10]

I don't think rape was meant for this case, but just saying that is a light sentence if someone is raped. Maybe we're looking at it differently?

If that is what you're saying, I agree it's different, but I still don't understand what any of this has to do with Herman Cain. What he did was not rape. To my mind, it also should not entail anything like criminal charges. Since he was using his hiring ability in an attempt to manipulate someone into having sexual relations with him, it should entail problems with his job up to and including termination (the biggest problem of which is the he said/she said nature of these allegations) and a loss of reputation, but that is something different. As little as I think of Herman Cain, the only thing he did that was really sleazy was bring up the job. The rest of it is the type of dumb mistake that any bartender will see over and over again, usually where a guy gets too much alcohol in him and thinks he's getting somewhere with some women he's with and makes a move that is totally out of place. I'm not offering that excuse for Cain, I think he's a sleazeball, but apart from his words to her about the job, that is how someone could interpret it.

[parocks]

Rape?! Total bs. You guys keep blowing this up and you simply make yourselves look bad. Cain's comment about her wanting the job was totally sleazy and manipulative and speaks poorly of him, but that is not rape.

Let this run its course and stick to your principles. If your personal view of male-female relationships is shaped by cultural Marxism, then whatever, but the application of that law to what Cain did is hardly consistent with how libertarians normally view the world. We're looking to elect Ron Paul, not Andrea Dworkin.

I haven't seen the name Andrea Dworkin in years. I have a vague recollection of encountering that name in college. I have a sort of subconscious revulsion to just seeing the name.

[parocks]

If that is what you're saying, I agree it's different, but I still don't understand what any of this has to do with Herman Cain. What he did was not rape. To my mind, it also should not entail anything like criminal charges. Since he was using his hiring ability in an attempt to manipulate someone into having sexual relations with him, it should entail problems with his job up to and including termination (the biggest problem of which is the he said/she said nature of these allegations) and a loss of reputation, but that is something different. As little as I think of Herman Cain, the only thing he did that was really sleazy was bring up the job. The rest of it is the type of dumb mistake that any bartender will see over and over again, usually where a guy gets too much alcohol in him and thinks he's getting somewhere with some women he's with and makes a move that is totally out of place. I'm not offering that excuse for Cain, I think he's a sleazeball, but apart from his words to her about the job, that is how someone could interpret it.

IF she is to be believed. It was attempted adultery.

[Dianne]

The guy on CNN said that her description was of a sexual assault.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/g/gro...al-imposition/

It doesn't reach the level of the link's definition because he didn't finish what he started to do; he stopped when she told him to.

I agree this is a sexual assault, but the statute of limitations is in play. If someone did that to me, I would have them locked up.

[angelatc]

Stacy McCain seems to have given up, and his column contains another tidbit:

A former employee of the United States Agency for International Development says Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain asked her to help arrange a dinner date for him with a female audience member following a speech he delivered nine years ago. . . .“I couldn’t swear that he had some untoward intentions, but we all thought his tone was suspect and we didn’t feel comfortable putting him in touch with that woman,” Donella recalled.

[milo10]

I agree this is a sexual assault, but the statute of limitations is in play. If someone did that to me, I would have them locked up.

If this happened exactly as described, then I don't believe Cain has broken any laws at all. And I will note that the strictly physical aspect of this happens thousands of times a day across the United States, usually among teenagers and 20-somethings who are a little buzzed or completely misread the situation or did not know how to escalate.

So you would want there to be a law against this involving a jail sentence, when currently there isn't?

If implemented completely, probably 20% - 30% of all males in the United States would see jail time under those laws.

On a related note, I would like to add that if anyone is wondering why people are standing behind Cain after all of these allegations, you are seeing part of the reason here.

Edit: Dianne, not trying to pick on you. If your comment was off-the-cuff and I'm taking it too literally, then this really isn't aimed at you. I don't want to turn this into a huge debate, but I do want people to understand that this is not the way to approach this.

[wgadget]

If this happened exactly as described, then I don't believe Cain has broken any laws at all. And I will note that the strictly physical aspect of this happens thousands of times a day across the United States, usually among teenagers and 20-somethings who are a little buzzed or completely misread the situation or did not know how to escalate.

So you would want there to be a law against this involving a jail sentence, when currently there isn't?

If implemented completely, probably 20% - 30% of all males in the United States would see jail time under those laws.

But Hermie was in his 50s...

[milo10]

But Hermie was in his 50s...

So there should be different laws for people in their 20s and people in their 50s?

Edit: Cleaner44, that video was great. His creepy smile was a perfect fit.

That is the way to knock Cain down. What he did was sleazy and inappropriate, and should be made fun of. But thankfully, to the best of my knowledge, it was not criminal. He stopped when the woman asked him to stop. As far as the law goes, that is what matters.

[Original_Intent]

I'm waiting for the blue dress with the black walnut stain.

[Dianne]

If this happened exactly as described, then I don't believe Cain has broken any laws at all. And I will note that the strictly physical aspect of this happens thousands of times a day across the United States, usually among teenagers and 20-somethings who are a little buzzed or completely misread the situation or did not know how to escalate.

So you would want there to be a law against this involving a jail sentence, when currently there isn't?

If implemented completely, probably 20% - 30% of all males in the United States would see jail time under those laws.

On a related note, I would like to add that if anyone is wondering why people are standing behind Cain after all of these allegations, you are seeing part of the reason here.

It is unlawful for a person to touch another person without permission.

Here is the definition of assault and battery:

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...lt+and+Battery

Two separate offenses against the person that when used in one expression may be defined as any unlawful and unpermitted touching of another. Assault is an act that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent, harmful, or offensive contact. The act consists of a threat of harm accompanied by an apparent, present ability to carry out the threat. Battery is a harmful or offensive touching of another.The main distinction between the two offenses is the existence or nonexistence of a touching or contact. While contact is an essential element of battery, there must be an absence of contact for assault. Sometimes assault is defined loosely to include battery.

Assault and battery are offenses in both criminal and Tort Law; therefore, they can give rise to criminal or civil liability. In Criminal Law, an assault may additionally be defined as any attempt to commit a battery.

At Common Law, both offenses were misdemeanors. As of the early 2000s, under virtually all criminal codes, they are either misdemeanors or felonies. They are characterized as felonious when accompanied by a criminal intent, such as an intent to kill, rob, or rape, or when they are committed with a dangerous weapon.

[squarepusher]

if this is true, why didn't she file a police report?

[specsaregood]

//

[Dianne]

Furthermore, when I was a correctional officer; we could not even shake an inmate's hands; for fear they would file assault charges against us for touching them.

[rp08orbust]

Touching a person's body without their permission is: assault and battery.

True, but the tricky part is what constitutes tacit permission. Who here has ever given explicit permission to touch them while on a date with someone, or explicitly asked for permission to hold hands or kiss?

[milo10]

True, but the tricky part is what constitutes tacit permission. Who here has ever given explicit permission to touch them while on a date with someone, or explicitly asked for permission to hold hands or kiss?

Exactly. For example, pretty much 90% of all romance scenes in film or fiction would be against the law by those criteria.

Thankfully, things are not quite that bad just yet.

[Bruno]

Cain is dusting off the high-tech lynching speech for this afternoon.

Drudge is playing goalie by blaming the victim.

Iowans are not "yawning" at the allegations this morning.

[bluesc]

Cain is dusting off the high-tech lynching speech for this afternoon.

Drudge is playing goalie by blaming the victim.

I wish Drudge wasn't. His was one of my most visited sites up until he began carrying the water for Cain. Now I only visit to see what Cain headlines he has.

I guess it makes sense to me now why he preemptively had the "high-tech lynching" article up right after Cain won the Florida Straw Poll. I honestly think Drudge knew about it.

[Bruno]

I wish Drudge wasn't. His was one of my most visited sites up until he began carrying the water for Cain. Now I only visit to see what Cain headlines he has.

I guess it makes sense to me now why he preemptively had the "high-tech lynching" article up right after Cain won the Florida Straw Poll. I honestly think Drudge knew about it.

Agreed!

[squarepusher]

so could any opponent of Cain make these allegations?
Is this woman telling the truth or lying?

[stuntman stoll]

[kylejack]

if this is true, why didn't she file a police report?

Maybe because rape culture is intimidating, and because he just did a sexual assault and not a full rape, and maybe because she was an unemployed lady and he was a prestigious high-level businessman.

[kylejack]

True, but the tricky part is what constitutes tacit permission. Who here has ever given explicit permission to touch them while on a date with someone, or explicitly asked for permission to hold hands or kiss?

You don't start running your hand up someone's skirt without any prior indicators of consent. If he did this, he also attempted to extort her with the "you want a job, don't you?"