We need to get into specifics with Israel.
We often talk about how our foreign aid makes Israel dependent on us, and that we interfere with their international negotiations and how they deal with their neighbors. We should start talking about specific examples rather than these generalities. Can you guys think of any besides that one time Israel bombed Iraqi nuclear reactors and we yelled at them?
I’m fascinated with your word unconventional. Isn’t it strange that we can apply that term to freedom, and liberty, and the constitution, a balanced budget, and limited government? – Ron Paul
Can't help ya there. They were very likely using US military technology in waging that attack, so even that “example” doesn’t hold up.
Last edited by robert68; 11-03-2011 at 05:23 AM.
You mean us, or Ron? I hope Ron does everything he possibly can to avoid the subject of Israel. I feel bad for him with the two foreign policy debates coming up.
The first time the US got involved in Israeli affairs, it was the Suez Crisis. The UK, due to backing down, gave up all power in the Middle East and it's position as a superpower, the US took over. Since then, the US has dictated pretty much everything to Israel, with a few bumps here and there. How's that for interfering?
Israel has always recieved support from the US. They wouldn't have won in 48 without it.Originally Posted by bluesc
Last edited by robert68; 11-03-2011 at 06:58 AM.
far more than one example, they are leashed and tied daily
just quote netanyahu. he's said explicitly that the israelis don't want or need american interference. we give them $3 billion a year in aid. their gdp is $217 billion. it's not exactly like they'd starve without us. we could still sell them weapons. if the little guy wants protection from the big guy... the little guy pays.. not the other way around.
and of course there is the argument that we shouldn't subsidize their welfare state while fighting to end our own (for republicans obviously). then of course there's the ringer: state funded abortion. our aid dollars fund abortions through the israeli government.
or, you could always just ask "what exactly is the direct strategic interest that the united states has in israel". you'll get a canned "they're our closest ally" response or deer in the headlights. if they pull the "ally" card, that's not an answer to the question. the question is why should we continue the allegiance as it stands, not whether or not it exists. they will have no answer, because there isn't a good one.
Do you have a source for that? I think it would be great for convincing a lot of people, such as my mother.
As little as possible should be said about Israel. You can't win an argument on the subject. Just broad statements that we can't afford any more foregn aid with all the people hurting in our own country. That sells, getting specific on Israel doesn't.
War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.
some guy on the forum has a link in his signature that explains it all. can't remember his name, but i followed the link and it seemed to check out. they provide abortions through their state-sponsored healthcare system.
It is important to understand why Israel is such an issue. I wrote a small summary that might help explain some of it:
http://www.libertyandhope.blogspot.com/
It's important to know why people are so emotional on this issue. It's family, religion, and more!
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