How Was Government Funded before 1913 and IRS?

[Anti Federalist]

'

you don't know, because the context of population destroys your comparison.

there's plenty of underdeveloped and underpopulated US cities and counties that'll give you the 1910 experience.

Perhaps you can tell me what is so admirable and desireable of the 1906 lifestyle depicted in the film? Slow cars? Everybody wearing suits? Wide streets? What exactly am I missing today that's available on the film?

The ability to walk down that street without 1,000,000 replicas of that camera watching your every move.

I'd trade all the "convenience" of modern life to have that back.

That which was lost just in my own lifetime.

The ability to live without being under 24/7 surveillance.

[Anti Federalist]

I knew you had no specific answer, sorry, I must be blind, I'm not seeing it. If that's liberty, I'm glad I don't have it.

Well, that's how most people think.

The question is: by what authority do you claim to have, to make that decision for me?

[Anti Federalist]

The city was rebuilt without FEMA too.

So was Galveston.

And Chicago.

And Anchorage.

[Anti Federalist]

14,689,520

That's the total number of Model Ts produced.

[heavenlyboy34]

I knew you had no specific answer, sorry, I must be blind, I'm not seeing it. If that's liberty, I'm glad I don't have it.

Liberty is inconvenient sometimes, and you have to put up with a lot of nonsense, but it's better than being a slave.

[Lafayette]

lol

[Becker]

The ability to walk down that street without 1,000,000 replicas of that camera watching your every move.

oh, so the LACK of people being able to afford cameras is what you call "liberty" and "prosperity"?

I'd trade all the "convenience" of modern life to have that back.

What 3rd world country doesnt allow you to?

That which was lost just in my own lifetime.

The ability to live without being under 24/7 surveillance.

I beg to differ, there are plenty of cities, even in the US, where electricity is too expensive to have surveillance. You said you'd trade the convenience for that? Nothing is stopping you from living in an city where electricity is used for other purposes. (just ask the Amish)

I don't live under surveillance, the few hours of the day where I am seen, is of my own choosing.

[Becker]

Liberty is inconvenient sometimes, and you have to put up with a lot of nonsense, but it's better than being a slave.

ok then, you take liberty, I'll take convenience, and safety.

[Becker]

Well, that's how most people think.

The question is: by what authority do you claim to have, to make that decision for me?

What decision did I make for you or am stopping you from making?

[heavenlyboy34]

ok then, you take liberty, I'll take convenience, and safety.

If you prefer the comfort of slavery and tyranny to the animating contest of liberty, why are you on RPFs? You are directly at odds with RP's philosophy.

[Lafayette]

'

you don't know, because the context of population destroys your comparison.

there's plenty of underdeveloped and underpopulated US cities and counties that'll give you the 1910 experience.

Perhaps you can tell me what is so admirable and desireable of the 1906 lifestyle depicted in the film? Slow cars? Everybody wearing suits? Wide streets? What exactly am I missing today that's available on the film?

I just got off the phone with Doc Brown, he was surprised to hear that all his work on the DeLorean was for naught.

Limited government and no Income tax ... THE KEY TO TIME TRAVEL!

[NewRightLibertarian]

ok then, you take liberty, I'll take convenience, and safety.

How are you a Ron Paul supporter?

[Becker]

I just got off the phone with Doc Brown, he was surprised to hear that all his work on the DeLorean was for naught.

Limited government and no Income tax ... THE KEY TO TIME TRAVEL!

I can't see that from the film. Sounds like you'll trade limited government and income tax for anything at any era, there's a few African countries that'll do that for you.

[Lafayette]

I can't see that from the film. Sounds like you'll trade limited government and income tax for anything at any era, there's a few African countries that'll do that for you.

Limited government and no income tax its like and EMP that wipes out all technology, the desire to better yourself and your surroundings and it fits into a 1980's sports car with wing doors.

[heavenlyboy34]

Limited government and no income tax its like and EMP that wipes out all technology, the desire to better yourself and your surroundings and it fits into a 1980's sports car with wing doors.

IIRC, in all 3 BTTF films, Doc Brown went to periods and places with little to no government regulation. (like that bar scene in part III-no regulations of sanitation, guns, or anything except the owner's rules, but it was still a successful bar)

[Becker]

Limited government and no income tax its like and EMP that wipes out all technology, the desire to better yourself and your surroundings and it fits into a 1980's sports car with wing doors.

I'll take technology, convenience, and surveillance cameras, you enjoy your Delorean (deluded) ride, keep in mind, the EMP might disable your way back.

[Becker]

IIRC, in all 3 BTTF films, Doc Brown went to periods and places with little to no government regulation. (like that bar scene in part III-no regulations of sanitation, guns, or anything except the owner's rules, but it was still a successful bar)

why did he come back it life was so good in the past?

[KingRobbStark]

why did he come back it life was so good in the past?

Let me ask you a question. Have you ever had day better than today? Or will continue to insist that today is the best da of your life merely because it's today?

[Becker]

Let me ask you a question. Have you ever had day better than today? Or will continue to insist that today is the best da of your life merely because it's today?

I think I've had better days. But I've learned to love life every step of the way, and deal with what I dislike. I understand I can never go back, but I can always make tomorrow more like a day that I remember as good. I don't ever believe one day is best based on WHEN.

[Lafayette]

I just can't get over the fact Mr Becker here thinks that without a strong oppressive government we instantly time travel to a past were dinosaurs eat babies and rock and stick are our only technology.

Its an amazing way of thinking, can you do some Youtube videos of yourself discussing the role of government and its effects on quantum mechanics? I'm really interested in your theories, maybe you can touch briefly on the grandfather paradox. If Ron Paul goes back to 47 million BC an steps on a butterfly will the TSA still keep us safe from 8 year old girls in 2011?

[Xenophage]

what kind of life did people live before 1913?

Did women work? How many cars did each family have?
What size were their houses? What percentage of income was spent on food, and how many options did they have to eat?
How much time did women spend on cooking?
How many children did a family have on average?
How rights did gay people and black people have in those great days?

Why didn't the magical "free market" do all this good stuff?

All of these things improved via a direct result of free market workings. The increases in productivity and technological advancement, which began happening at an ever increasing rate during the industrial revolution, were only made possible by a free market economy.

[Diurdi]

what kind of life did people live before 1913?

Did women work? How many cars did each family have?
What size were their houses? What percentage of income was spent on food, and how many options did they have to eat?
How much time did women spend on cooking?
How many children did a family have on average?
How rights did gay people and black people have in those great days?

Why didn't the magical "free market" do all this good stuff?

The market did all this stuff. One only has to look at the explosive increase in the living standards of the average American from 1800 -> 1913.

You can't honestly expect that if a free market was implemented in the 1500's, that suddenly we would have skyscrapers and high-tech brain surgeries.

Human society is a story of progress, and the free-er the market, the faster it does that. If the market is $#@!ed up enough, the progress may stop and possibily revert.

[WIRP]

what kind of life did people live before 1913?

Did women work? How many cars did each family have?
What size were their houses? What percentage of income was spent on food, and how many options did they have to eat?
How much time did women spend on cooking?
How many children did a family have on average?
How rights did gay people and black people have in those great days?

Why didn't the magical "free market" do all this good stuff?

Seriously guys, how could we do any of these things without our magical government? Since we don't live in the past, and we have a government, I will now conclude that it is because of government that things are better today than in the past.

Please ignore any ideas you may have about the exponential acceleration of technology in improving our lives. It couldn't be that, it's government! We thank our government for giving us our wonderful life, and the North Koreans thank Kim Jong Il for giving them rice. Seriously, they would starve without him.

[heavenlyboy34]

I just got off the phone with Doc Brown, he was surprised to hear that all his work on the DeLorean was for naught.

Limited government and no Income tax ... THE KEY TO TIME TRAVEL!

I thought the flux capacitor and the ability to reach 88 mph was the key to time travel.

[KingRobbStark]

I thought the flux capacitor and the ability to reach 88 mph was the key to time travel.

Only if you have a magical free market car.

[susano]

It was funded with tariffs (taxes on foreign producers who raised their prices), which is a big reason why the North did not want to let the South become independent in 1860s considering the South paid close to 80% of all Federal Taxes, and excise taxes (taxes from the sale of certain goods). The government got a tremendous amount of money from a sales tax on liquor. Before 1913 40% of the government was funded by a tax on booze. The income tax was pushed by prohibitionists who wanted to make up for the revenue that government would lose when liquor was illegal. With an income tax, the prohibitionists could finally right the wrongs of society and implement their grand vision of utopia.

Always the control freaks wrecking everything.

That 80% of the taxes that the south was a source of - are you saying that the south imported enough products that they collected that much revenue?

[Becker]

I just can't get over the fact Mr Becker here thinks that without a strong oppressive government we instantly time travel to a past were dinosaurs eat babies and rock and stick are our only technology.

Its an amazing way of thinking, can you do some Youtube videos of yourself discussing the role of government and its effects on quantum mechanics? I'm really interested in your theories, maybe you can touch briefly on the grandfather paradox. If Ron Paul goes back to 47 million BC an steps on a butterfly will the TSA still keep us safe from 8 year old girls in 2011?

what place in the world today lacks oppressive government? Dubai? Somalia? Egypt? Amish country? China?

[Anti Federalist]

What decision did I make for you or am stopping you from making?

ok then, you take liberty, I'll take convenience, and safety.

You just answered yourself.

When you, and millions that think just like you, take conveince and safety over freedom, you take my liberty away.

It is from such self justifications that PATRIOT Acts, TSA, roadside checkpoints, and all the rest are born.

[Becker]

You just answered yourself.

When you, and millions that think just like you, take conveince and safety over freedom, you take my liberty away.

No, I am not forcing you to live in a system where I am in harmony with. I am not stopping you from moving away. The system landed on me, and it did on you, I am happy to stay and perpetuate it, you are free to change it or move away, whatever works for you.

It is from such self justifications that PATRIOT Acts, TSA, roadside checkpoints, and all the rest are born.

I call that "market demand". If the market demanded otherwise, why isn't it otherwise? You think politicians can't be bribed to do things your way if you had enough money?

[Working Poor]

Technologically speaking we are probably 100 years behind because of what JP Morgan did to Nicola Tesla in wireless technology during the 20's. Morgan messed with the free market bad and so did WR Hearst.