right after the V-TECH win over MIAMI our local ABC news came on.
mitt romney's quote on the poisonous rhetoric topped the coverage.
not a word was said about ron paul's sweep in the V. V. Summit poll.
No, it doesn't. I quoted the text verbatim from the English Standard Version.Originally Posted by PierzStyx
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." -ESV, clearly not stating that not being baptized will condemn you.
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." 21st century King James.
" He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. " American Standard Version.
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned." Good News Version
"He who believes it and is baptised will be saved, but he who disbelieves it will be condemned." Original King James.
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." NIV
"He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. " RSV
Every single translation I can find says the exact same thing, and none of them say that the unbaptized are damned.
Most translations don't even say "damn", they translate to "condemn" which has a totally different connotation.
The Greek word is κατακριθήσεται (katakrethesetai), which means "1) to give judgment against, to judge worthy of punishment 1a) to condemn 1b) by one's good example to render another's wickedness the more evident and censurable".
So unless the Mormon version somehow translated it differently from every single other effort, then Scripture teaches that those who disbelieve - without respect to baptism - are condemned, as in they are *judged* worthy of punishment. It's also clear that disbelief - at least in this passage - is not necessarily what causes *actual* punishing.
And shame on you for characterizing the Nicene council as some event where everyone got together and took a 51% vote on what Bible to force down everyone's throat. The topic of Biblical canon wasn't even addressed there.
The original and principal purpose of the council was to address the Arian heresy. All but two of the attendees (there were between 250 and 318 of them) voted against Arius. I don't exactly call that "voting for it hundreds of years after Christ lived" - I call it "oh crap this guy is saying stuff that is contrary to what we already believe and it's in the best interest of the Church to address it formally".
Biblical canon actually took a lot longer to solidify, but it happened in the same way. Everyone was already using it. By the time it became codified it was merely a formality. It had already been cemented through tradition.
There are no crimes against people.
There are only crimes against the state.
And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.
they should not be relevant, but religion does play a role, just as race, weight, baldness etc effect anything.
mormons are a cult is every sense of the word
"Governor, if I had foreseen the use those people designed to make of their victory,
there would have been no surrender at Appomattox Courthouse; no sir, not by me.
Had I foreseen these results of subjugation, I would have preferred to die at Appomattox
with my brave men, my sword in my right hand." - Robert E. Lee to Governor Fletcher S. Stockdale (D-Texas), 1870
NEWSFLASH: Every religion is a cult. It's all about money and mind control.
Does the word trinity or "one being 3 persons" appear in the New Testament in any way, shape or form?
are there no Christians who believe each person CHOSE to sin after he was born himself?Original Sin
Mormons: Doesn't exist
Christians: Exists
Does the Bible say "this is where the story ends"?Scripture
Mormons: For Latter-day Saints the canon remains open.
Christians: the Old and New Testament is the inexhaustible source of Christian belief. The Canon is closed.
Mormons are most certainly NOT Christians. Mormons are polytheists, Christians are monotheists. Mormons think God is a man, the Scripture says God is spirit. Christians are Trinitarian, Mormons do not believe in the deity of Christ. There are countless examples of where Mormonism is worlds apart from Christianity. Please watch:
Last edited by Sola_Fide; 10-09-2011 at 06:43 AM.
Yeah, Mormonism is pretty far from Christianity. It's pretty hilarious that the only people who will say Mormonism = Christianity are... Mormons, and non-religious people. Most Mormon people have such a lack of basic Christian theological knowledge it's nearly embarrassing. I mean no offense, but the Church knows that if you did a thorough research of the fundamental basics of Christianity, you'd end up Orthodox (most likely), Catholic, or in one of the Protestant churches. Hell, most Protestant churches offer no lessons in the historical origins of theology / why the beliefs are what they are. I mean, sure, you can say Mormons believe in Jesus Christ, but the Jesus Christ of the Book of Mormon is not the same one of the Bible.
If I wrote an "addition" to the Bible, claimed it was just as valid as the Bible, claimed it was divinely inspired, named my religion "Paulitheism", and then used my new Book of Paulitheism in the majority of my religious services, you think it wouldn't get called a cult? Sorry guys, but it would. And I say this with the utmost respect for my Mormon friends who are very lovely and moral people.
im LDS. we consider ourselves christian. it is offensive to say otherwise, but of course, im aware that its not uncommon for people to think otherwise. i dont allow myself to get too worked up over it. the debate here is obviously "how do you define christian?"
...
Last edited by amisspelledword; 10-10-2011 at 09:15 PM.
newsflash, christianity is not an occult.
Why is that offensive?
If you said that I wasn't a Mormon it wouldn't offend me.
As a Mormon, I think we should just call ourselves "followers of Jesus" and leave the "Christian" label to those so anxious to have it. Their behavior over the centuries has kind of tarnished the brand anyway. We are followers of Jesus, and yes, obviously the same Jesus as all the "Christians" follow, so I personally prefer to just leave it at that. Let exclusionists define JWs, Adventists, Catholics, and Mormons out of Christianity. Who wants to lumped in as part of their club anyway? I don't.
By the way, does anyone have a link to the video where Ron Paul defended Mitt Romney's faith on Fox, saying it's silly to argue over the definition of a cult? I know I saw a link, but now I can't find it.
Last edited by helmuth_hubener; 10-14-2011 at 12:48 PM.
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