Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 102

Thread: "Romney is NOT a Christian, he's a Mormon" says VVS speaker!

  1. #1

    Lightbulb "Romney is NOT a Christian, he's a Mormon" says VVS speaker!

    Just Tweeted from Politico:
    Texas evangelical leader Robert Jeffress said this afternoon he does not believe Mitt Romney is a Christian. http://politi.co/r1kNry[/q


    SOURCE:
    http://twitter.com/#!/POLITICO2012





  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2

    Default

    Also Tweeted by Politico:

    Rick Perry does not believe that Mormonism is a cult, his campaign said Friday. http://politi.co/nbGTJu

  4. #3

    Default

    I don't understand why this is big news. Mormonism is very, very different from Christianity.

  5. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AquaBuddha2010 View Post
    I don't understand why this is big news. Mormonism is very, very different from Christianity.
    They worship Christ, how is it "very very" different?
    I begin with the principle that all men are bores. Surely no one will prove himself so great a bore as to contradict me in this. - Soren Kierkegaard

  6. #5

    Default

    They're playing the Mormon card. Things are going to get ugly.

  7. #6

    Default

    begorrrrahhh an' shades of the wise generation who voted for JFK, Al Smith & thah Purple Shamrock up here,
    someone PLEASE DON'T PLAY the Mormon card like this thusly, these fools by blowback almost elect Mr. Mitt!

  8. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AquaBuddha2010 View Post
    I don't understand why this is big news. Mormonism is very, very different from Christianity.
    Oh give me a break. You can make up all the crap you want about how it is different, it doesn't mean it's true.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #8

    Default

    The Church of Jesus Christ of Ladder Day Saints was founded on the notion that the original Church of Christ which existed during the time of Jesus Christ and the 12 apostles up until some time after his death. God removed his authority from the earth after that time and the gospel became cloudy and tainted by man and rulers (i.e. Catholicism). While the Reformation may have been an intelligent acknowledgement of this and no doubt influential in moving people over to the new world where they could practice their religion freely, the truth had not been restored to the earth yet by a true Prophet. This is key. Joseph Smith is believe to be a Prophet and restored the original Church of Jesus Christ back to the earth.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    The Church of Jesus Christ of Ladder Day Saints was founded on the notion that the original Church of Christ which existed during the time of Jesus Christ and the 12 apostles up until some time after his death. God removed his authority from the earth after that time and the gospel became cloudy and tainted by man and rulers (i.e. Catholicism). While the Reformation may have been an intelligent acknowledgement of this and no doubt influential in moving people over to the new world where they could practice their religion freely, the truth had not been restored to the earth yet by a true Prophet. This is key. Joseph Smith is believe to be a Prophet and restored the original Church of Jesus Christ back to the earth.
    Yep. So in a sense, Mormons consider themselves to be MORE of a Christian than non-Mormon Christians.
    I begin with the principle that all men are bores. Surely no one will prove himself so great a bore as to contradict me in this. - Soren Kierkegaard

  11. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Oh give me a break. You can make up all the crap you want about how it is different, it doesn't mean it's true.

    Holy Trinity
    Mormons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three distinct beings who are "one in purpose"
    Christians: Father, Son and Holy Spirit are of the "same substance"; three persons in one being

    Original Sin
    Mormons: Doesn't exist
    Christians: Exists

    Scripture
    Mormons: For Latter-day Saints the canon remains open.
    Christians: the Old and New Testament is the inexhaustible source of Christian belief. The Canon is closed.

    Those three are substantial differences.

    Also, while honoring the Virgin Mary, Latter-day Saints have no equivalent of the doctrines of the immaculate conception, perpetual virginity, and bodily assumption of Mary.
    Last edited by eduardo89; 10-07-2011 at 03:37 PM.

  12. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    They worship Christ, how is it "very very" different?
    It is very different, but it doesn't make these "accusations" relevant to the elections. Whether he is or isn't a christian should be of no relevance to electing a good representative.
    It was too weird to live, and too rare to die - hunter s. thompson .
    ..this is the darkest timeline..

  13. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Oh give me a break. You can make up all the crap you want about how it is different, it doesn't mean it's true.
    There is nothing to make up, it is different...just as different as how muslims view Jesus as a "prophet."
    It was too weird to live, and too rare to die - hunter s. thompson .
    ..this is the darkest timeline..

  14. #13

    Default

    Mormons are Christians. I lived with Mormons for quite a while when I was in foster care. They believe some wacky things but they ARE christians. Protestant faiths all differ in one way or another.

  15. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    They worship Christ, how is it "very very" different?
    You can worship Christ all you want, but that does not automatically make you a Christian. There is much more to being a Christian than worshiping Christ. Worshiping means nothing if you don't understand Christ's teachings and accept Him, the Father and the Holy Spirit as the Holy Trinity.

  16. #15

    Default

    Popping popcorn for this discussion.

  17. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tribute_13 View Post
    Mormons are Christians. I lived with Mormons for quite a while when I was in foster care. They believe some wacky things but they ARE christians. Protestant faiths all differ in one way or another.
    Their cosmology is kind of wacky, but not any wackier than Adam and Eve eating soul-damning fruit, Moses parting the red sea, or Noah having two of every animal on his Ark.

    So yeah I agree, Mormons are Christians. They aren't different enough to say they are as different from Christianity as Muslims are from Christianity.
    I begin with the principle that all men are bores. Surely no one will prove himself so great a bore as to contradict me in this. - Soren Kierkegaard

  18. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZanZibar View Post
    Popping popcorn for this discussion.
    There's not much to discuss. Mormons ≠ Christians.

    It's like trying to argue Rick Santorum is an non-interventionist.

  19. #18

    Default

    Does it matter what we think? It's pretty clear that the Republican religious right thinks Mormon are evil cultists.

  20. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    Holy Trinity
    Mormons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three distinct beings who are "one in purpose"
    Christians: Father, Son and Holy Spirit are of the "same substance"; three persons in one being
    My opinion:

    Semantics and extremely insignificant.

    The Christian doctrine of the Trinity defines God as three divine persons (Greek: ὑποστάσεις)[1]: the Father, the Son(Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. The three persons are distinct yet coexist in unity, and are co-equal, co-eternal and consubstantial (Greek: ὁμοούσιοι). Put another way, the three persons of the Trinity are of one being (Greek: οὐσία).[2] The Trinity is considered to be a mystery of Christian faith.[3]

    According to this doctrine, God exists as three persons but is one God, meaning that God the Son and God the Holy Spirit have exactly the same nature or being as God the Father in every way.[4] Whatever attributes and power God the Father has, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit have as well.[4] "Thus, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are also eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent, infinitely wise, infinitely holy, infinitely loving, omniscient."[4]
    -Wikipedia

    The definition of the trinity as three divine persons that co-exist in unity and purpose.. The only difference I see between the two is that someone who believes in the trinity will say to the person who doesn't, "NO!! They aren't separate.. I mean they are, but they aren't!"


    LDS opinion:

    Joseph Smith saw God AND Jesus when they appeared to him, God proclaimed that it was his son that was standing there.

    Biblical references:

    John 20:17

    King James Version (KJV)

    17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


    Acts 7:55-56

    King James Version (KJV)

    55But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

    56And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

    John 17:5,11,20-26; Matt 3:13-17; Mark 1:9-11; Luke 3:21-22.



    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    Original Sin
    Mormons: Doesn't exist
    Christians: Exists


    Those two are substantial differences.

    Ya, see, Mormons believe that a baby who dies before the age of 8 automatically goes to the Celestial Kingdom, which is the highest kingdom in heaven. A non-Mormon Christian believes that if they aren't baptized they go to Hell. I'm not Mormon, but if I had to choose I'd go with the Mormons on this one. I have a hard time believing that if God exists he is sending all the starving babies in Africa to hell, but if you want to believe that, feel free to.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  21. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainAmerica View Post
    There is nothing to make up, it is different...just as different as how muslims view Jesus as a "prophet."
    Bullshit, Mormons view Jesus as the Lord and Savior.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  22. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tribute_13 View Post
    Mormons are Christians. I lived with Mormons for quite a while when I was in foster care. They believe some wacky things but they ARE christians. Protestant faiths all differ in one way or another.
    Ya, it's ridiculous how all Christian faiths vary so much, yet some how they single out the LDS faith as being "not Christian"
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  23. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    You can worship Christ all you want, but that does not automatically make you a Christian. There is much more to being a Christian than worshiping Christ. Worshiping means nothing if you don't understand Christ's teachings and accept Him, the Father and the Holy Spirit as the Holy Trinity.
    Look, all I'm saying is that to me, the collective label of "Christian" should apply to Mormons, the same way it applies to Catholics, Baptists, Greek Orthodox and what not. I realize I may be in the minority, but to me putting Christ as a central figure in your worldview, makes you a Christian.
    I begin with the principle that all men are bores. Surely no one will prove himself so great a bore as to contradict me in this. - Soren Kierkegaard

  24. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    Look, all I'm saying is that to me, the collective label of "Christian" should apply to Mormons, the same way it applies to Catholics, Baptists, Greek Orthodox and what not. I realize I may be in the minority, but to me putting Christ as a central figure in your worldview, makes you a Christian.
    It's not just that he's a central figure, but THE central figure, THE Lord and Savior of mankind. They believe Christ took on our sins.

    The differences are so minute, Christians who blow them up are just scared of losing people to the LDS faith because they are the fastest growing religion and their religions are losing people to the LDS faith all the time. It's really strategic, if anything. I guess it all comes down to $$ and power.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  25. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Ya, see, Mormons believe that a baby who dies before the age of 8 automatically goes to the Celestial Kingdom, which is the highest kingdom in heaven. A non-Mormon Christian believes that if they aren't baptized they go to Hell. I'm not Mormon, but if I had to choose I'd go with the Mormons on this one. I have a hard time believing that if God exists he is sending all the starving babies in Africa to hell, but if you want to believe that, feel free to.
    That's just not true.

  26. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    That's just not true.
    So then they have sinned because of Adam?

    And they didn't believe in Christ?

    ....THEN what happens
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  27. #26
    Untimely ripped fisharmor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Location! Location!
    Posts
    7,350

    Default

    When unravelling such things, though I am not myself Orthodox, I tend to look to what they have to say, given that their theology has remained consistent for the longest stretch of time.

    http://orthodoxwiki.org/Mormonism

    the Orthodox Church clearly teaches that the Most Holy Trinity has always existed precisely as one God: "the Trinity, One in Essence, and Undivided." Mormonism, on the other hand, teaches that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one in "purpose" only, and most emphatically not one in essence or hypostasis (as the Orthodox Church teaches). They are three "gods," say the Mormons, and not "one" in anything except a common purpose and mindset. Furthermore, say they, there are potentially billions of "gods" beyond the three they acknowledge as belonging to this world. All of this is diametrically opposed to Orthodox Christian teaching.
    If Christ is a god, and they worship him, the existence of potentially billions of other gods puts them more in the Hindu camp than close to anything resembling Christianity.

    In the Pearl of Great Price, "Book of Moses" 4:1-4 and "Book of Abraham" 3:27, Mormonism's god explains that in the "preexistence," he asked for a volunteer to serve as the savior of humankind. Two of his "spirit-sons," Jesus and Lucifer, obliged. Lucifer wanted to compel all humans to follow God, while Jesus insisted on the right of each person to choose for themselves. When "Elohim" chose Jesus over Lucifer, say the Mormons, Lucifer rebelled and was cast out of heaven with his followers. They were deprived of all chance to receive a fleshly body, and thus barred from any chance at "godhood."

    The June 1986 Ensign, official magazine of the LDS Church, affirmed the teaching that Christ and Satan are, indeed, "spirit brothers"--albeit diametrically opposed "brothers."

    All of these teachings, needless to say, are emphatically rejected by the Orthodox Church.

    Mormonism apparently teaches that Jesus and Satan are brothers.

    Mormons have a very difficult time understanding why Orthodox and other Christians deny that they are Christian. The simplest answer to this question is that the Mormon god is simply not God--at least not the God worshipped by Orthodox Christians (and other Trinitarians). This does not mean that the Mormons are necessarily immoral or wicked people, simply that they worship a god completely dissimilar from the Christian Trinity.
    Hey, Mormons are free to refer to themselves as Christian. And Christians are just as free to say they aren't.
    The Orthodox are among the most theologically shutting-you-out bunch out there... and if they're going to cuddle up with protestants and Catholics over this issue and shut out Mormons.... well that says something.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  28. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    So then they have sinned because of Adam?

    And they didn't believe in Christ?

    ....THEN what happens
    I can't speak for any protestant denomination, but the Catholic Church does not believe unbaptized infants go straight to hell. We have faith in God's mercy and entrust Him to save those children who have died without the opportunity to be cleansed of the original sin.

    As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them," allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism.
    Last edited by eduardo89; 10-07-2011 at 04:02 PM.

  29. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    I can't speak for any protestant denomination, but the Catholic Church does not believe unbaptized infants go straight to hell. We have faith in God's mercy and entrust Him to save those children who have died without the opportunity to be cleansed of the original sin.
    So the original sin doesn't really exist when you are born then.

    When do you get it
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  30. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's not just that he's a central figure, but THE central figure, THE Lord and Savior of mankind. They believe Christ took on our sins.

    The differences are so minute, Christians who blow them up are just scared of losing people to the LDS faith because they are the fastest growing religion and their religions are losing people to the LDS faith all the time. It's really strategic, if anything. I guess it all comes down to $$ and power.
    Again, not true. The fact that they see Christ, the Father and the Holy Spirit as three distinct gods is a HUGE difference from Christians, who recognize that there is but one God.

  31. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    So the original sin doesn't really exist when you are born then.

    When do you get it
    When did I say that?

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast




« Previous Thread | Next Thread »


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •