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Thread: "Romney is NOT a Christian, he's a Mormon" says VVS speaker!

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  1. #1

    Lightbulb "Romney is NOT a Christian, he's a Mormon" says VVS speaker!

    Just Tweeted from Politico:
    Texas evangelical leader Robert Jeffress said this afternoon he does not believe Mitt Romney is a Christian. http://politi.co/r1kNry[/q


    SOURCE:
    http://twitter.com/#!/POLITICO2012





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  3. #2

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    Also Tweeted by Politico:

    Rick Perry does not believe that Mormonism is a cult, his campaign said Friday. http://politi.co/nbGTJu

  4. #3

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    I don't understand why this is big news. Mormonism is very, very different from Christianity.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by AquaBuddha2010 View Post
    I don't understand why this is big news. Mormonism is very, very different from Christianity.
    They worship Christ, how is it "very very" different?
    I begin with the principle that all men are bores. Surely no one will prove himself so great a bore as to contradict me in this. - Soren Kierkegaard

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    They worship Christ, how is it "very very" different?
    It is very different, but it doesn't make these "accusations" relevant to the elections. Whether he is or isn't a christian should be of no relevance to electing a good representative.
    It was too weird to live, and too rare to die - hunter s. thompson .
    ..this is the darkest timeline..

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainAmerica View Post
    It is very different, but it doesn't make these "accusations" relevant to the elections. Whether he is or isn't a christian should be of no relevance to electing a good representative.
    they should not be relevant, but religion does play a role, just as race, weight, baldness etc effect anything.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    They worship Christ, how is it "very very" different?
    You can worship Christ all you want, but that does not automatically make you a Christian. There is much more to being a Christian than worshiping Christ. Worshiping means nothing if you don't understand Christ's teachings and accept Him, the Father and the Holy Spirit as the Holy Trinity.
    Hail Mary, Full of Grace, The Lord is with thee.
    Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
    Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of death.
    Amen.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    You can worship Christ all you want, but that does not automatically make you a Christian. There is much more to being a Christian than worshiping Christ. Worshiping means nothing if you don't understand Christ's teachings and accept Him, the Father and the Holy Spirit as the Holy Trinity.
    Look, all I'm saying is that to me, the collective label of "Christian" should apply to Mormons, the same way it applies to Catholics, Baptists, Greek Orthodox and what not. I realize I may be in the minority, but to me putting Christ as a central figure in your worldview, makes you a Christian.
    I begin with the principle that all men are bores. Surely no one will prove himself so great a bore as to contradict me in this. - Soren Kierkegaard

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by wizardwatson View Post
    Look, all I'm saying is that to me, the collective label of "Christian" should apply to Mormons, the same way it applies to Catholics, Baptists, Greek Orthodox and what not. I realize I may be in the minority, but to me putting Christ as a central figure in your worldview, makes you a Christian.
    It's not just that he's a central figure, but THE central figure, THE Lord and Savior of mankind. They believe Christ took on our sins.

    The differences are so minute, Christians who blow them up are just scared of losing people to the LDS faith because they are the fastest growing religion and their religions are losing people to the LDS faith all the time. It's really strategic, if anything. I guess it all comes down to $$ and power.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by AquaBuddha2010 View Post
    I don't understand why this is big news. Mormonism is very, very different from Christianity.
    Oh give me a break. You can make up all the crap you want about how it is different, it doesn't mean it's true.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Oh give me a break. You can make up all the crap you want about how it is different, it doesn't mean it's true.

    Holy Trinity
    Mormons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three distinct beings who are "one in purpose"
    Christians: Father, Son and Holy Spirit are of the "same substance"; three persons in one being

    Original Sin
    Mormons: Doesn't exist
    Christians: Exists

    Scripture
    Mormons: For Latter-day Saints the canon remains open.
    Christians: the Old and New Testament is the inexhaustible source of Christian belief. The Canon is closed.

    Those three are substantial differences.

    Also, while honoring the Virgin Mary, Latter-day Saints have no equivalent of the doctrines of the immaculate conception, perpetual virginity, and bodily assumption of Mary.
    Last edited by eduardo89; 10-07-2011 at 03:37 PM.
    Hail Mary, Full of Grace, The Lord is with thee.
    Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
    Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of death.
    Amen.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    Holy Trinity
    Mormons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three distinct beings who are "one in purpose"
    Christians: Father, Son and Holy Spirit are of the "same substance"; three persons in one being
    My opinion:

    Semantics and extremely insignificant.

    The Christian doctrine of the Trinity defines God as three divine persons (Greek: ὑποστάσεις)[1]: the Father, the Son(Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. The three persons are distinct yet coexist in unity, and are co-equal, co-eternal and consubstantial (Greek: ὁμοούσιοι). Put another way, the three persons of the Trinity are of one being (Greek: οὐσία).[2] The Trinity is considered to be a mystery of Christian faith.[3]

    According to this doctrine, God exists as three persons but is one God, meaning that God the Son and God the Holy Spirit have exactly the same nature or being as God the Father in every way.[4] Whatever attributes and power God the Father has, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit have as well.[4] "Thus, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are also eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent, infinitely wise, infinitely holy, infinitely loving, omniscient."[4]
    -Wikipedia

    The definition of the trinity as three divine persons that co-exist in unity and purpose.. The only difference I see between the two is that someone who believes in the trinity will say to the person who doesn't, "NO!! They aren't separate.. I mean they are, but they aren't!"


    LDS opinion:

    Joseph Smith saw God AND Jesus when they appeared to him, God proclaimed that it was his son that was standing there.

    Biblical references:

    John 20:17

    King James Version (KJV)

    17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


    Acts 7:55-56

    King James Version (KJV)

    55But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

    56And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

    John 17:5,11,20-26; Matt 3:13-17; Mark 1:9-11; Luke 3:21-22.



    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    Original Sin
    Mormons: Doesn't exist
    Christians: Exists


    Those two are substantial differences.

    Ya, see, Mormons believe that a baby who dies before the age of 8 automatically goes to the Celestial Kingdom, which is the highest kingdom in heaven. A non-Mormon Christian believes that if they aren't baptized they go to Hell. I'm not Mormon, but if I had to choose I'd go with the Mormons on this one. I have a hard time believing that if God exists he is sending all the starving babies in Africa to hell, but if you want to believe that, feel free to.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Ya, see, Mormons believe that a baby who dies before the age of 8 automatically goes to the Celestial Kingdom, which is the highest kingdom in heaven. A non-Mormon Christian believes that if they aren't baptized they go to Hell. I'm not Mormon, but if I had to choose I'd go with the Mormons on this one. I have a hard time believing that if God exists he is sending all the starving babies in Africa to hell, but if you want to believe that, feel free to.
    That's just not true.
    Hail Mary, Full of Grace, The Lord is with thee.
    Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
    Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of death.
    Amen.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    Holy Trinity
    Mormons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three distinct beings who are "one in purpose"
    Christians: Father, Son and Holy Spirit are of the "same substance"; three persons in one being

    Original Sin
    Mormons: Doesn't exist
    Christians: Exists

    Scripture
    Mormons: For Latter-day Saints the canon remains open.
    Christians: the Old and New Testament is the inexhaustible source of Christian belief. The Canon is closed.

    Those three are substantial differences.

    Also, while honoring the Virgin Mary, Latter-day Saints have no equivalent of the doctrines of the immaculate conception, perpetual virginity, and bodily assumption of Mary.
    Baptists don't believe in half these things. Are they Christians? Yes they are. You just defined a specific TYPE of Christian, i.e. a Catholic, not all Christians.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Baptists don't believe in half these things. Are they Christians? Yes they are. You just defined a specific TYPE of Christian, i.e. a Catholic, not all Christians.
    Baptists believe in the Holy Trinity, the original sin, and that the Holy Scripture is the only sufficient, certain, and infallible rule of all saving knowledge, faith, and obedience.
    Hail Mary, Full of Grace, The Lord is with thee.
    Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
    Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of death.
    Amen.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Baptists don't believe in half these things. Are they Christians? Yes they are. You just defined a specific TYPE of Christian, i.e. a Catholic, not all Christians.
    you miss one key element. Mormons believe in polytheism,that "God" the Father was once like us,and that through his noble deeds he became a "God"..and that such a thing can be achieved by humans. Tell me again that its christian,..the ignorance astounds me.
    It was too weird to live, and too rare to die - hunter s. thompson .
    ..this is the darkest timeline..

  18. #17

    Default I Have to Agree With Robert Jeffress

    Mitt Romney is not a Christian, but even if he was, his views on civil government do not comport with the Bible (like most of the GOP candidates who consider themselves Christians).
    "And Joab said to Amasa, 'Art thou in health, my brother?' And Joab took Amasa by the beard with the right hand to kiss him. But Amasa took no heed to the sword that was in Joab's hand, so he smote him therewith in the fifth rib and shed out his bowels to the ground and struck him not again. And he died." - 2 Samuel 20:9-10

    "Obamacare saddles the American health care system with new spending and mandates which will raise the price and lower the quality of health care." - Dr. Ron Paul

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by eduardo89 View Post
    Holy Trinity
    Mormons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three distinct beings who are "one in purpose"
    Christians: Father, Son and Holy Spirit are of the "same substance"; three persons in one being
    Does the word trinity or "one being 3 persons" appear in the New Testament in any way, shape or form?


    Original Sin
    Mormons: Doesn't exist
    Christians: Exists
    are there no Christians who believe each person CHOSE to sin after he was born himself?
    Scripture
    Mormons: For Latter-day Saints the canon remains open.
    Christians: the Old and New Testament is the inexhaustible source of Christian belief. The Canon is closed.
    Does the Bible say "this is where the story ends"?

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Oh give me a break. You can make up all the crap you want about how it is different, it doesn't mean it's true.
    There is nothing to make up, it is different...just as different as how muslims view Jesus as a "prophet."
    It was too weird to live, and too rare to die - hunter s. thompson .
    ..this is the darkest timeline..

  21. #20

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    Mormons are Christians. I lived with Mormons for quite a while when I was in foster care. They believe some wacky things but they ARE christians. Protestant faiths all differ in one way or another.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by tribute_13 View Post
    Mormons are Christians. I lived with Mormons for quite a while when I was in foster care. They believe some wacky things but they ARE christians. Protestant faiths all differ in one way or another.
    Their cosmology is kind of wacky, but not any wackier than Adam and Eve eating soul-damning fruit, Moses parting the red sea, or Noah having two of every animal on his Ark.

    So yeah I agree, Mormons are Christians. They aren't different enough to say they are as different from Christianity as Muslims are from Christianity.
    I begin with the principle that all men are bores. Surely no one will prove himself so great a bore as to contradict me in this. - Soren Kierkegaard

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by tribute_13 View Post
    Mormons are Christians. I lived with Mormons for quite a while when I was in foster care. They believe some wacky things but they ARE christians. Protestant faiths all differ in one way or another.
    Ya, it's ridiculous how all Christian faiths vary so much, yet some how they single out the LDS faith as being "not Christian"
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainAmerica View Post
    There is nothing to make up, it is different...just as different as how muslims view Jesus as a "prophet."
    Bullshit, Mormons view Jesus as the Lord and Savior.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Bullshit, Mormons view Jesus as the Lord and Savior.
    .......mormons are polytheistic.get a grip on reality yo,you're wrong.
    It was too weird to live, and too rare to die - hunter s. thompson .
    ..this is the darkest timeline..

  26. #25

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    Not at all. Mormons believe Jesus to be the divine Son of God, born of a virgin (Mary), who sacrificed Himself to redeem us from our sins by suffering for them, dying on the cross, and Resurrecting three days later, and who is the only source of salvation. Muslims believe none of those things. Mormons are Christian.

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Not at all. Mormons believe Jesus to be the divine Son of God, born of a virgin (Mary), who sacrificed Himself to redeem us from our sins by suffering for them, dying on the cross, and Resurrecting three days later, and who is the only source of salvation. Muslims believe none of those things. Mormons are Christian.

    That's really what it comes down to, the other religions have leaders and teachers who are just nit-picking because they are jealous that they are losing so many followers to them.

    I'm not saying the people here are jealous or are losing money or power, but somebody taught them that these little nit-picking details that really amount to semantics for the most part, rather than any real difference in the belief system.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Oh give me a break. You can make up all the crap you want about how it is different, it doesn't mean it's true.
    Isn't it practically a prerequisite of being a Mormon to believe that it is very different?
    Iím not a libertarian. Iím not advocating everyone run around with no clothes on and smoke pot.

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    Isn't it practically a prerequisite of being a Mormon to believe that it is very different?
    This is true in that you believe traditional Christianity went astray. But that isn't the same as saying that they aren't followers of Christ either. We believe traditional Christians follow the Savior but have some things incorrect. On the other hand I cannot count how many times I have been told I do not, and can not, be a worshiper of Christ because I am LDS. That is what this whole thread is really over. By saying LDS aren't Christian its basically saying they don't worship Jesus, which is untrue. And that annoys me greatly because its denying what I know with all of my being, that Christ is my Savior, Lord, and King.
    Last edited by PierzStyx; 10-07-2011 at 06:53 PM.

  30. #29

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    They're playing the Mormon card. Things are going to get ugly.

  31. #30

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    begorrrrahhh an' shades of the wise generation who voted for JFK, Al Smith & thah Purple Shamrock up here,
    someone PLEASE DON'T PLAY the Mormon card like this thusly, these fools by blowback almost elect Mr. Mitt!

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