My recent road trip. WA, ID, MT, WY, UT, OR

[Icymudpuppy]

Last week I left WA to go hunting in WY. It was a good hunt and I have plenty of Antelope and Deer meat in the freezer, but that is not why I am starting this thread.

I wanted to discuss the things I saw, heard, and talked about on my trip.

Driving up Interstate 5 from Lewis county up to King County is the first leg of the journey
Although most people would agree that Seattle is a hotbed of ultra-left-wing political thought, it is noticeable that as cities in the United States are concerned, it continues to be considered one of the most stable economic areas, and regularly rates as the one of the top 10 US cities to raise a family. It has high immigration rates, and a bustling local community infrastructure that supports farmer's markets, and local business. Things generally considered positive by our movement.

On the other hand, it is also a place where there are regular reports of police abuse of power, very strict anti-personal and economic freedom laws such as no smoking in private businesses.

I've often thought that Seattle's success economically has more to do with Geography than anything else, and that may even be the case. With a more accessible port and marine economy than almost anywhere else in the world, and surrounded by vast natural resources such as Timber, Fisheries, and a very good climate for animal husbandry and vegetable farming, Seattle would likely be a strong economic center no matter how badly it's resources were managed.

Still, Seattle has also spawned a considerable amount of creative genius and the industry that comes with it. Aerospace and Computer programming in particular are two industries that have been led from the Pacific Northwest.

Seattle has among the lowest rates of obesity in the nation, which goes along with one of the highest rates of outdoor activities enjoyed by it's citizens such as kayaking, hiking, sailing, bicycling, climbing, and many others. I personally indulge in all of those and include many others.

Seattle does not have any kind of dominant religion, and a majority of its population describes themselves as "Spiritual, but not religious".

If you consider that Seattle is managed in a manner that would probably be more like European style socialism than anything else, how can you explain it's success?

My next post in this thread will be about the second leg of the journey... I-90 and central and eastern Washington.

[Icymudpuppy]

Okay. So no input about Seattle...

Let's discuss the inland northwest.

After crossing the Cascade mountains and heading into central washington one of the first areas passed through is Washington's Apple country. Home of such famous brands as TreeTop.

Now, this agricultural area has been home to a vibrant fruit orchard industry for many years, but it really wasn't known worldwide until after federal irrigation projects increased arable land dramatically, allowing soil too dry to support orchard trees to become productive. This same irrigation and desert reclamation effort was done throughout the central washington region. The question is, could these projects have been undertaken locally without federal assistance? Given the fact that these irrigation efforts required massive Dam projects on the Columbia River, I doubt they could have been done with just local efforts. What about the availability of clean hydro-electric power also created by the same projects? Does increasing production of agriculture screw up the market? What about the fact that the majority of orchard workers are migrant workers and often are illegal immigrants? Does the fact that they are illegal mean that the jobs are worthless, or that the cheaper fruit available at your supermarket is bad? Would these projects ever have been undertaken by a laissez faire market? Would central washington still be mostly sage brush desert with the same kind of dismal economy that plagues wyoming where range cattle and sheep subsist on dry grasses amidst the sage but which can't support more than about 1 head/sq mile? What about the effect of the dams and water diversion on the salmon fisheries back on the coast?

Thoughts? These are complex issues.

[Icymudpuppy]

Jeez. I guess I'm wasting my time with these topics.

Anybody interested in hearing about the mountain regions of the Idaho panhandle and West Montana and their mining economy, or how a remote town in the mountains has the highest volume Chrysler Dealership in the world?

[KCIndy]

Huh. How the hell did I miss this post??

Icymudpuppy, I would be interested in your further musings and trip report. As a matter of fact, I was just in your neck of the woods. If your home turf is the Lewis county area of Washington, I wasn't too far from your location last week. Oregon and Idaho too, for that matter!

[LibertyEagle]

Sorry, Icy, I hadn't seen this thread. Please continue. It is very interesting.

[Kotin]

Subscribed

[flightlesskiwi]

i, too, missed these posts until now.

please do go on!!

about Seattle: i know nothing of the history there, so i wonder for how long has the area been led under the European-like socialist ideology.

i'm also very surprised to find that it is regularly rated one of the top cities to raise a family! i've heard pretty much the opposite in the past. (although i know very little about Seattle)

[KCIndy]

about Seattle: i know nothing of the history there, so i wonder for how long has the area been led under the European-like socialist ideology.

i'm also very surprised to find that it is regularly rated one of the top cities to raise a family! i've heard pretty much the opposite in the past. (although i know very little about Seattle)

Seattle's great, and I say that as someone who is decidedly NOT a city person.

[Icymudpuppy]

I made a long post yesterday about Spokane and Northern Idaho and west Montana, but somehow it never posted, and I lost the text.

Anyway, the gist was that the economic disparity in this agricultural and mining area is pretty extreme. Wealthy landowners, and really poor workers. Monsanto supplies the landowners with their seed, and the urbanites are mostly oblivious to the obvious problems in the rural areas.

In the small town of Kellogg, a gold and silver mining area in a narrow mountain pass on I-90, the largest dodge dealership in the world resides. They market across the continent and fly customers into the area to buy vehicles. The dealership provides relatively few direct jobs. Online salesmen, low paying lot staff, etc. The owner is a very wealthy man. The rest of the town, not so much. One man just can't spend enough in that small town to really boost it's economy.

Next post... SW Montana, and Yellowstone National Park.

[Pericles]

Re: Seattle and prosperity.

What we can't know if if Seattle would be more successful under our idea of less regulation. Good industries in their prime are often successful almost no matter what happens. It is the marginal economic activity most impacted by regulation and market distortions.

Somewhat like Sweden and Norway in the 1980s. With north sea oil and a favorable world economy, the socialist paradise seemed workable. Only later after it became no longer sustainable was it recognized as an aberration.

[Icymudpuppy]

Okay, no comments on the inland NW. On to Montana and Yellowstone.

How many folks on here have been to Missoula?

It's really a beautiful town in a large and scenic valley.

The first thing I noticed was all the new housing, much of it empty. Missoula apparently expected a big influx of new immigrants that hasn't come. Not sure what that means. Perhaps it was part of the housing bubble. Perhaps it was a new industrial center that failed to produce the jobs it promised. I don't know. I would like to know more about the economic strength of Missoula. Obviously, Chuck Baldwin thought Montana was the place to settle, and Missoula has the ecosystem to support my business type if I chose to move. It would be nice to know if it has the economic strength to support my business type.

Moving on... Yellowstone national park, and the empty spaces around it.

There are some very well maintained highways around the park, and around this area, but very little population to carry on them. In my part of Washington State, we have huge 4-10 lane freeways that even with that much capacity still are gridlocked a couple times each day. Meanwhile, in the high country of SW Montana and NW Wyoming, there are these massive highways that get very little activity. Indeed, you can drive for miles without seeing another car. Certainly the existance of these roads is valuable to the commerce of the nation as a whole since moving freight across the empty plain and over the mountains is easier, but you can be sure that if these roads were not built with federal dollars, they would not have been built at all, and most of this part of the country would have primitive gravel roads with no warning signs, much like the Alaska-Canada Highway through the Yukon territory. Where travellers would be wise to bring at least a full set of spare tires. There is no way that the sparse populations of these areas could afford to build good roads if it were done with State money only. Say what you will about the Eisenhowers highway bill, but it is constitutional, and even the Romans knew that good roads are essential for a strong economy.