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Thread: Issue: Media: psy-ops in America to shift political ideologies?

  1. #1

    Default Issue: Media: psy-ops in America to shift political ideologies?

    Quote from a Soviet KGB defector:

    "...what (psy-ops) basically means is, to change the perception of reality of every American to such an extent that despite their abundance of information no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interest of defending themselves, their families, their community, and their country."


    This is the circumstance where we find ourselves.

    Source, Yuri Bezmenov on demoralization (at about 30 seconds into the video) -

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE8MCSu_K-A



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  3. #2

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    Interesting video and interesting points.

    The interview certainly underscores the importance of being vigilant about the news and ideas we're exposed to--and minimizing our exposure to the MSM, as well as being aware of the bias of our (or our children's) educators. However a few things came to mind as I was watching:

    --Who is the guy (and media source/organization which employs him) interviewing Yuri Bezmenov? I'm curious about the interviewer's own agenda.

    --Although Bezmenov may very well be telling the truth here, how do we know he is not exagerating things/ trying to "impress" his audience (particularly Americans) into thinking he's a "good guy" and some sort of "patriot" since his defection by telling us the psy-ops secrets of the KGB? ==> I can't help but find his revelations a bit suspect in light of the Iraq War--especially what has been revealed about the shoddy evidence and so-called intelligence provided by Iraqi defecters eager to please the Americans (CIA and/or military intelligence) , which ended up either being untrue or misleading in the lead up to the war.


    --Moreover, Bezmenov criticizes liberals, Marxists, etc. The same mindlessness he attributes to them can certainly be applied to the Neo-Cons in our media (Hannity, O'Reilly, Ingraham, Limbaugh, Coulter, etc) and in our govt. Their call for patriotism and flag-waving--and demonization of anyone not in lock-step with them--has done worse things for our country, IMHO, than what Jane Fonda did. While "Hanoi Jane" was certainly wrong for going to Vietnam and allowing herself to be used in propaganda which demoralized our troops, at least her actions were meant to ultimately play a role in ending that war. The chickenhawk Neo-Cons on the other hand, seem to only want endless war and don't care how many of our soldiers die or how much of our money is spent.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
    Soft headed liberals who do not question ... I love it.
    This is why the "rEVOLution" aspect of the RP campaign bothers me. It attracts these liberals and makes the entire movement look like a bunch of hippies when in fact RP is the opposite. Too many self-interest groups are already subverting RP's mandate and misdirecting his mission. We need to make it clear what RP's opinion is in every thread with links and quotes.

  5. #4

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    You misunderstand the power of the revolution message, though. Bringing the people who oppose the war from the left is critically important, because it is the powerful follow-up argument that hooks them - the idea that government has failed them and is not the savior they thought it would be. When they start to recognize that, then they become true believers in freedom. It's about being against ALL wars, not just the war on Iraq. Ron Paul specifically brought this point home on the Colbert Report and I thought it was brilliant.

    And true.

    So don't sweat it - nobody is subverting the message. The libertarian ideal is in fact a christian one - peace, harmony, industry. Love thy neighbor indeed.

    I see nothing wrong with that at all.
    "I'd rather be alive and free." Rep. Ron Paul, June 13, 2007 to Stephen Colbert on The Colbert Report.

  6. #5

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    I see so many "Truthers" saying that war is unnecessary. I would have to disagree.
    Last edited by drinkbleach; 06-14-2007 at 02:46 PM. Reason: typo

  7. #6

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    I think that a lot of people like Ron Paul because he is a very principled man. They may not agree with everything he says, but they do believe in his overall message. Right, Left, or whatever political affiliation.

  8. #7

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    That's the essential greatness of Ron's approach. He sticks to principle, and doesn't care what others think. This is what attracts people from all walks of life.

    When Jon Stewart said to Ron, "You seem to be a principled person of integrity - we con't see much of that coming from Washington," that was one of the best descriptions of why the rEVOLution is catching on with all people who truly want their Constitutional Republic back.

    Kooks will always be kooks. But, they will vote for someone - why not Ron Paul?

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by LizF View Post

    --Who is the guy (and media source/organization which employs him) interviewing Yuri Bezmenov? I'm curious about the interviewer's own agenda.
    I believe the interviewer is G. Edward Griffin, author of "The Creature from Jekyll Island: A Second Look at the Federal Reserve." This book is very worthwhile, by the way-- a history of the Federal Reserve system and analysis of its agenda. The interview appears to be "Soviet subversion of the free press a conversation with Yuri Bezmenov," publisher is Westlake Village, out of California, from 1984 (a very good year for uncovering authoritarian programs of deceit). Gotta love Wikipedia.

    I think you're wise to be skeptical of motives. Just the fact that he's explaining psy-ops, including misinformation, doesn't mean that he's not engaging in them during the interview. Because some people (like me) take distrust of certain organizations as a starting point, it is sometimes ironically all the easier for them to be fooled by someone selling skepticism. A reminder to ask questions is welcome.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by beerista View Post
    I believe the interviewer is G. Edward Griffin, author of "The Creature from Jekyll Island: A Second Look at the Federal Reserve." This book is very worthwhile, by the way-- a history of the Federal Reserve system and analysis of its agenda. The interview appears to be "Soviet subversion of the free press a conversation with Yuri Bezmenov," publisher is Westlake Village, out of California, from 1984 (a very good year for uncovering authoritarian programs of deceit). Gotta love Wikipedia.

    I think you're wise to be skeptical of motives. Just the fact that he's explaining psy-ops, including misinformation, doesn't mean that he's not engaging in them during the interview. Because some people (like me) take distrust of certain organizations as a starting point, it is sometimes ironically all the easier for them to be fooled by someone selling skepticism. A reminder to ask questions is welcome.



    Thanks for that info Beerista, I'll look into it! It helps to know that this interview was in 1984--clarifies the angle/context somewhat.

    Thanks also for what you said about skepticism; I was wondering about some of the very things to which you alluded.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by drinkbleach View Post
    I see so many "Truthers" saying that war is unnecessary. I would have to disagree.
    Watch what you say; I'm not a "truther." War IS unnecessary, except in self defense. This is not my opinion, this is a law of the market.

    I challenge you to quote me something to the contrary.
    Last edited by beermotor; 06-14-2007 at 05:23 PM.
    "I'd rather be alive and free." Rep. Ron Paul, June 13, 2007 to Stephen Colbert on The Colbert Report.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by beermotor View Post
    Watch what you say; I'm not a "truther." War IS unnecessary, except in self defense. This is not my opinion, this is a law of the market.

    I challenge you to quote me something to the contrary.
    On the contrary..........Ok. I tried. Can't.

  13. #12

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    The challenge is...changing perceptions.

    We are where we find ourselves because the media has "created reality" by altering perceptions.

    "That's your reality, not the reality." --Lesley Stahl's comment to Lou Dobbs when she interviewed him for 60 Minutes (in response to Lou Dobbs talking sense)

    We can change the perceptions - we have the horsepower (enough highly motivated proactive Ron Paul supporters), we just need to go do it!

    "For the determined and resolute there is time and opportunity." --Ralph Waldo Emerson

  14. #13

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    Again so many people trying to dictate to everyone else what should and shouldn't fly. I'm talking to you ronpaul4president.

    Are you ron paul? Do you speak directly for ron paul? What makes your opinnion more valuable than anyone else's? If people want to make a revolution sign, let them. You should be happy to see people of other political persuasions getting involved. You take care of you, and let other people worry about themselves. "liberals," give me a break man. I don't think you will find many hardcore ron paul fans (or anyone for that matter) who buys into that whole liberal/conservative garbage anymore.

    Collectively we need to drop this "dumb, lazy, Americans (who aren't me) need to wake up, do this, don't do that, fill in the blank crap" if we plan to survive as a nation, let alone a species. Have you no faith in your fellow men/women?

    Besides, America has woken up, perhaps it is time you do the same.

    [hey everyone, sorry to go off on one person, but it seems like in every thread i read on this site there is someone trying to tell everyone what they should and should not do... talk about hijacking, distorting ron paul's message]

  15. #14

    Default Issue: psy-ops in America to shift political ideologies?

    IMO, most people align themselves to one political ideology or another without asking the deeper questions of what it means. Many people believe that certain liberal ideas like taxation or social services are good because of the benefits they offer. They might not have thought about the implications such as - taxation is a use of government force; helping the poor and homeless might be better handled through non-profits and local government. They don't get the principles of government and freedom. Some people believe that eliminating the Department of Education means eliminating public education altogether. They haven't thought through how basic principles apply to specific issues, so I feel it's best to educate people without being condescending toward them. The problem with the current political discourse as it's played out in the MSM is that the fact that people are arguing seems to be more important than what they are arguing about.

    Ron Paul appeals to a lot of people for various reasons and feel uncomfortable with him for other reasons. It's healthy to maintain some skepticism and continue asking the deeper questions
    If you want less oppressive government, quit trying to expand it.

  16. #15

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    It's fear, fear of thinking there would be no education without government, no helping of the poor without government, no security without government, no health care without government, and so on.

    As Ron said, there was free or low-cost health care in the free-market, prices went up because of government interference and health insurance, always wanting to charge the maximum.

    We have limits on how much we can save for retirement, Ron is one of the few who voted to raise these limits. Social Security is dead, it was bad idea from the start.

    Bottom line: Taxpayers are now on the hook for a record $59.1 trillion in liabilities, a 2.3% increase from 2006. That amount is equal to $516,348 for every U.S. household. By comparison, U.S. households owe an average of $112,043 for mortgages, car loans, credit cards and all other debt combined.

    The White House and the Congressional Budget Office oppose the change, arguing that the programs are not true liabilities because government can cancel or cut them.
    http://www.usatoday.com/printedition...lede29.art.htm

  17. #16

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    Face it. Americans as a whole have become a bunch of wusses. They talk big, but that's about it. They still want their gummit money and can't imagine how anything would run without their master.

    That said, I hope Ron really can nail the difference, in a large public venue, between corporatism and free markets. People are very confused about this and it's one of the reasons they're scared off from Ron.
    Last edited by LibertyEagle; 06-24-2007 at 02:42 PM.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
    Quote from a Soviet KGB defector:

    "...what (psy-ops) basically means is, to change the perception of reality of every American to such an extent that despite their abundance of information no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interest of defending themselves, their families, their community, and their country."


    This is the circumstance where we find ourselves.

    Source, Yuri Bezmenov on demoralization (at about 30 seconds into the video) -

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE8MCSu_K-A
    "We'll know our disinformation program is complete when
    everything the American public believes is false.”
    -- William Casey, CIA Director circa 1981

    Thanks for the link.

    I believe that the acme of human existence is self-determination, as long as it doesn’t infringe upon the rights of others. We are swiftly loosing our ability to exercise self-determination, hence my interest in Dr. Paul’s campaign to restore the Constitution and in these general areas of control measures.

    Here’s one back at you:

    Information Dominance: The Philosophy Of Total Propaganda Control?

    http://www.spinwatch.org/content/view/86/8/

    "In the contemporary arena of political chicanery, reality counts for little and illusion is frequently king, but in the struggle for the survival of Western Civilization, it will be the real world, not illusions or delusions, that will determine which way the future will go...”
    -- Lawrence Patton McDonald, U.S. Congressman
    Last edited by lucius; 06-24-2007 at 03:13 PM.
    "Masterful and arrogant wealth, created largely by Government protection of its profits, not content with its domination and influence within a single party, had sought to corrupt them both, and to that end had insinuated itself into the primaries, in order that no candidates might be nominated whose views were not in accord with theirs." (ĎColonelí Edward Mandell House in 'Philip Dru: Administrator', circa 1912)

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Face it. Americans as a whole have become a bunch of wusses. They talk big, but that's about it. They still want their gummit money and can't imagine how anything would run without their master.

    That said, I hope Ron really can nail the difference, in a large public venue, between corporatism and free markets. People are very confused about this and it's one of the reasons they're scared off from Ron.

    I think the real problem is the media blackout which keeps most Americans unaware. It's not apathy it's ignorance. Things like Teen Screen, RealID, the Texas superhighway, Ed Brown, Haliburton Scandals (and much more) are ignored by the media.

    I think we'll revolt if we have to, but for now we want to try educating our fellow citizens and using elections. When these things start to fail us or are taken away strategies will change quickly.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwordOfShannarah View Post
    I think the real problem is the media blackout which keeps most Americans unaware. It's not apathy it's ignorance. Things like Teen Screen, RealID, the Texas superhighway, Ed Brown, Haliburton Scandals (and much more) are ignored by the media.

    I think we'll revolt if we have to, but for now we want to try educating our fellow citizens and using elections. When these things start to fail us or are taken away strategies will change quickly.
    Well my new strategy, particularily with people who have children is to get them to watch ZEITGEIST, The Movie
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...18742089256264
    I tell them, if you care about your childrens future, you need to watch Zeitgeist.

    Then, they have their little fantasy world has been blown apart, I direct them to watch "An idea whose time has come" speech by G Edward Griffin ==> http://www.freedomforceinternational..._Time_Has_Come

    I don't care about the Freedom Force International part, but his message regarding how get our Governments back is exceptional.

    Unfortunately, many people need to be shocked out of their Trance, and it's not going to be nice, and it's going to hurt, but people have to realise that if they don't start waking up and acting now it's going to be too late, America is on the edge of becoming the Fourth Reich and most people aren't going to realise until it's too late...
    Last edited by kimosabi; 06-25-2007 at 02:26 AM.
    Beat Vote Fraud - Video your Vote!!!

    "No army can stop an idea whose time has come."

    - Dr Ron Paul


    "Don't Fight City Hall, when you can BE City Hall"

    G. Edward Griffin


    Energy Freedom: Google Video/Youtube - Stanley Meyers

    Health Freedom: Google Video/Youtube - Dr Richard Schulze

  21. #20

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    More and more people are making personal political journeys of truth and fact-finding online. And more and more of them are coming to the obvious conclusion that the MSM is about as trustworthy as congress and the president.

    It's inevitable that these bonds will be broken by the communication and organization allowed by the internet. The Washington power structure will fall, and it will, in hindsight, have seemed inevitable. Because it is.

  22. #21

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    bump
    Truth is a social construct. 👁👁






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